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Old 01-17-2013, 08:15   #21
DaBigBR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.
Why? How much crime would be prevented by such measures? Why does the government need to interfere in a private transacation between parties as such?
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:38   #22
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Lots of people on here complain abut B.A.T.F.E. and call them cute internet derogatory names. And I agree that Fast and Furious was a grave travesty. However here and in a few other urban areas at least they (B.A.T.F.E. in conjunction with state and local officers) have had success prosecuting some of the worst, most violent felons in our society using federal courts to get very long sentences compaired to what is typically imposed in state courts. There are a small number of repeat violent offenders who commit an inordinate amount of some of thw most violent crimes. Continuing to target these guys and expanding these type programs may be one of the few things that the federal government could do to provide a fairly immediate reduction in crime rates.


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The cause of the Newtown shootings is plain and simple: That STUPID woman did not keep her guns properly secured. ....

I thought she was his first victim that he stabbed her and killed her before he took the guns.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:12   #23
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Most of his stuff is just fluff and meaningless drivel that should have been done already or doesn't really amount to meaning anything significant. It's like reelection and debate soundbites that sound significant but when you analyze it, doesn't have substance behind it. It's just more feel good campaigning.
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:24   #24
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I thought she was his first victim that he stabbed her and killed her before he took the guns.
I believe I read that he shot her three times in the head as she slept, but either way, in my opinion, the guns were not properly secured. Even if she had them in a gun safe and he knew the combination, I say, she was still ultimately at fault.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:17   #25
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• GIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT ADDITIONAL TOOLS TO PREVENT AND PROSECUTE GUN CRIME: We owe law enforcement the tools they need to keep us safe. The President will:

o Call for Congress to pass the Administration’s $4 billion proposal to help communities keep 15,000 cops on the street.

I am all for additional law enforcement officers on the street. I think it would be great on many fronts by giving man power that is needed as well as giving 15,000 additional American people jobs.

o Call for Congress to pass new gun trafficking laws, which will impose serious penalties on those who help get guns into the hands of criminals.

Having a minimum mandatory sentence for crimes committed with firearms is a must nationwide. Maybe put violence committed with gun crimes at a Federal level and require 10 year sentences without PNP. I actually fall back to states that have good systems in place as a template for this.
Florida has plan in place which I heard about this morning that sounded great to me: Commit a crime with a gun in your waist band = 10 years without PNP, you pull the weapon and point or threaten people with it during the commission of the crime =20 years without the possibility of PNP and if you use it, hit or miss, fire into the roof to make a point or anything else that involves you firing a single bullet = life in prison without PNP. Sounds fine to me, the Federal Government needs to make this kind of stuff happen.


o Take executive action to enhance gun tracing data by requiring federal law enforcement to trace all recovered guns.

I am ok with tracking weapons used in crimes but I am totally against tracking weapons owned or used by law abiding citizen’s with a big fat period.

o Propose regulations that will enable law enforcement to run complete background checks before returning seized firearms

I am really not ok with this to be honest. I can see points that would be ok but at the same time this would be abused by some and would cause a law abiding citizen grief. Maybe this would depend on the exact reasons for the weapons to be seized prior to being ok. Also I think if officers decided to run these they should be recorded and the officer sign off on why it is being done so that can be audited yearly. Also I would think there needs to be a standard operation procedure on this that is followed nation wide and I can tell you for a fact that each state will not want to which again would give me pause on it being feasible to even consider.

o Nominate, and call for Congress to confirm, a director for the ATF.

Not sure on this as congress tends to be one sided almost every term. I would say that if this happens there needs to be a checks and balancing system set in place.

o Call for Congress to remove restrictions that require ATF to authorize importation of dangerous weapons simply because of their age.

Remove restrictions on anything that can be legally owned in my opinion. If you are allowed to own a AK47 then we should also be allowed to import those weapons without restrictions. The only draw back to this in my opinion is the people in the US that are not trying to build them in the US would be affected.

o Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

Of course this is a great idea but it has no bearing on gun restrictions. This is our judicial system needing to work more than anything. It should also have zero effect on law abiding citizens. If it impairs or causes issue with ANY right or liberty afforded to law abiding citizens it should not happen. I am not in the business of punishing good people in any way for the actions of criminals PERIOD.

o Direct the Department of Justice to analyze information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

Not sure what the DOJ does or does not do anymore but we kind of already have a system in place that does this. Maybe provide additional funding at a state level for state law enforcement to do this allowing for more US jobs. I think the less we use or allow the governement to be used the better.

o Provide effective training for state and local law enforcement, first responders, and school officials on how to handle active shooter situations.

Provide more funding for us to do this more as we already do this.

Kind of a quick thought process on it, open to discussion. I think all of this can be done without effecting the liberties of good people as well. Nothing needs to change with the rights we have in place now to accomplish any of this in my opinion.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:07   #26
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:22   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
I believe I read that he shot her three times in the head as she slept, but either way, in my opinion, the guns were not properly secured. Even if she had them in a gun safe and he knew the combination, I say, she was still ultimately at fault.
I am going to respectfully disagree. It is irrelevant how she kept the guns secure because her son would still have been able to gain access to them if he wanted. No house is burglar proof, some are just easier than others. Most of the safes I see people storing guns, could be easily defeated with a large screwdriver.

There would still be nothing from precluding him from owning a gun anyway, so he could go buy whatever with a credit card... who would be ultimately at fault then?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:26   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.

I don't see how very old weapons are any problem, How many crimes are committed by some one with a 1880 Springfield trapdoor carbine? For that matter, how many crimes are committed by a 50 caliber BMG rifle? I only know of two, total, accross the entire U.S.

Putting more police officers on the streets with proper training and background checks is very good, It should have been done years ago. But giving them frivolous jobs to do that really won't do anything to really curb crime is pointless!! I have handled gang related murders where gang members could not get a gun so they simply stabbed the rival gangster with a knife several times, another where they beat the guy senseless with a 2X4 and a base ball bat then set him on fire with gasoline!! However it might help to prevent things like 20 or 25 people being murdered in a 3 minuet attack at a school, unless perhaps a bomb is used.

I thought I heard Obama say on the news that we need to totally enforce the gun laws we already have and I am totally in favor of that. Whatever happened to "use a gun, go to prison"?

Overall it could have been much worse and I can live with it.

It's not favorable to the bleeding hearts that also stopped Capitol Punishment for killing a cop.
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Old 01-17-2013, 15:40   #29
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I am going to respectfully disagree. It is irrelevant how she kept the guns secure because her son would still have been able to gain access to them if he wanted. No house is burglar proof, some are just easier than others. Most of the safes I see people storing guns, could be easily defeated with a large screwdriver.

There would still be nothing from precluding him from owning a gun anyway, so he could go buy whatever with a credit card... who would be ultimately at fault then?
I agree with this. It is in the same vein as the thought that banning "assault weapons" would prevent this.
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Old 01-17-2013, 17:19   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.
You're kidding, right?
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:19   #31
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I also believe that the president and both parties are in a position where something "must" be done, but I believe that it being used as a smoke screen for both parties to hide the looming budget and debt ceiling crisis arriving in another month.
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:38   #32
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I also believe that the president and both parties are in a position where something "must" be done, but I believe that it being used as a smoke screen for both parties to hide the looming budget and debt ceiling crisis arriving in another month.
Or vice-versa, whichever is most politically suitable at any given time.
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:53   #33
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he should arrest himself and eric holder and the head of the atf to start anyone remember fast and furious
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Old 01-17-2013, 19:17   #34
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Or vice-versa, whichever is most politically suitable at any given time.
Perfect response, as always.

Both sides have become zealots, making it impossible to find any common ground, and address the issues in a common sense approach.

I see a big place to start trimming fat. I am still scratching my head over the 80,000 denied transactions and 44 pinches figure... I think I would be in a lot of trouble if I took 1818 crashes, and only wrote 1 cite.
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Old 01-17-2013, 19:30   #35
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Cuomo's new magazine restrictions

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Old 01-17-2013, 21:16   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razdog76 View Post
I am going to respectfully disagree. It is irrelevant how she kept the guns secure because her son would still have been able to gain access to them if he wanted. No house is burglar proof, some are just easier than others. Most of the safes I see people storing guns, could be easily defeated with a large screwdriver.

There would still be nothing from precluding him from owning a gun anyway, so he could go buy whatever with a credit card... who would be ultimately at fault then?
We can agree to disagree, but is this to infer that it is senseless to make at least a reasonable effort to keep our firearms secured?

I still believe we should all be required to make at least a reasonable effort to keep our firearms secured.
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Old 01-17-2013, 21:30   #37
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We can agree to disagree, but is this to infer that it is senseless to make at least a reasonable effort to keep our firearms secured?

I still believe we should all be required to make at least a reasonable effort to keep our firearms secured.
... and isn't "reasonable" inside a house with the owner in it?


Depending on how you answer, you will have to pay mall security to watch your stash while you sleep.
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Old 01-17-2013, 22:02   #38
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... and isn't "reasonable" inside a house with the owner in it?
Ordinarily, yes. But from what I have read, she knew her son had serious emotional issues. I read one account that stated that she told at least one babysitter when he was younger to not take her eyes off of him for even a moment. In such a case as that, a gun just being 'inside a house with the owner in it' is not sufficient IMHO. YMMV.


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Depending on how you answer, you will have to pay mall security to watch your stash while you sleep.
HEY! Don't make fun of mall security. I want to go that route myself when I'm old enough!
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Old 01-18-2013, 20:09   #39
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I also believe that the president and both parties are in a position where something "must" be done, but I believe that it being used as a smoke screen for both parties to hide the looming budget and debt ceiling crisis arriving in another month.
Let the record reflect NPR reported today that the House is going to push back the new looming cliff, ledge, mantle, or whatever we are going to call it now another three months... lets see if it happens.
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Old 01-18-2013, 21:30   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
I think the President is in a situation where he HAS to do something!!! Personally, I would like to see background checks and a 10 day waiting period, at least, for everyone buying a gun. The same as in California. I don't see how this would infringe on anyone's rights.
I live in CA still and I can't live with the CA rules.

I agree with every transaction requiring a NICS background but it should be instant and it should be no waiting like in other states.

It has worked in every other state with instant backgrounds, why not here?

Also, taking the premise that I accept the waiting period, and the justification, which I don't, it makes no sense for subsequent purchases. The premise is that they want the buyer to have time to cool down in case he wants to walk in a store to buy a gun to kill someone. Well, okay, that might stand to reason for the first gun, but if I am already a gun owner, what's the point of making me wait on subsequent purchases? If you are going to make me wait ten days for a first purchase, then there should be no more waiting for future purchases.

Don't forget all the other onerous requirements in CA, such as only 1 handgun purchase a month, Handgun Safety Certificate requirement which is just a scam to rip money off with no increase in safety or education, the skills handling test demonstration for the dealer prior to taking delivery, proof of residency with two forms of ID/utility bill or whatever, mandatory purchase of a firearm lock with gun purchases, and extra safety fees on the transfer fees for firearm safety education which they have never instituted.
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