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Old 01-19-2013, 09:19   #126
Patchman
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
I don't believe any of the industries you mentioned are funded with tax payer funds.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
You don't think the medical industry earns a very nice portion of their money through medicare patients?
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:28   #127
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
You don't think the medical industry earns a very nice portion of their money through medicare patients?
Really, this is how you're going to debate this??? They are not funded by gov., though a "portion" of their money may come from gov. by proxy of a patient, they are not entirely funded by it.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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Old 01-19-2013, 10:15   #128
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
Really, this is how you're going to debate this??? They are not funded by gov., though a "portion" of their money may come from gov. by proxy of a patient, they are not entirely funded by it.

Clyde
Debate what? Debate industry associations only represent their own members?

Or debate how these industry associations are funded? If MDs get a "portion" of their income through medicare patients, and use their income to pay AMA dues, then the AMA is NOT funded, in part or wholly, by taxes?!?! Right?

But if LEOs earn their income through their agencies, and use their income to pay their LE association dues, then the LE association is fully tax-payer funded? (How about LEOs who have side jobs in private industry or own their own business? How does that income get figured when paying their association dues?}


And I guess the fact that many MDs, nurses, technicians are where they are today because they received their training through gov't funded hospital, clinics, programs, grants, scholarships, or that many techniques in use today were developed by the militaries (fully funded by the .gov) makes the medical profession 100-percent privately funded.

OK.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:02   #129
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Hey, man, just come right out and say it.

"I pay your salary".

Go ahead. You know you want to.

Randy
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:45   #130
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Originally Posted by Walter Bishop View Post
Active officers would be exempt from the 7 round limit when on duty and most likely if they are carrying their issued weapon when off duty. If they were carrying a personal weapon off duty they would probably have to obey the 7 round limit.
Where did you get this from? You really haven't a clue. If you are not post fact, don't post. It only adds to more miss information.

Fact: the legislature left out the LE exemption for the two new sections added to PL 265.00, which cover mags. As of today only out of state police officers and sworn peace officers are exempt from carrying hi cap mags. Ref: PL 265.20', sub 11.

I can guarantee they will add the fix very soon to 265.20, sub 1, ASAP, as they are getting beat up by both the press and police line organizations.

Also, there is no distinction between off or on duty, we carry what's authorized and are not limited to less than what the firearm takes.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:59   #131
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To me it would be the retired LEOs who would be in limbo. They would probably have to also go with the 7-round limit because (as I understand it), they were previously limited to the 10-round mags.

So now will Glock, Sig, Smith, etc... build special 7-round mags for just NY? I can't see that happening. Or is the reality going to be, you can use any mag you want, but can only load up to 7-rounds in it? (like the honor system?)
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Old 01-19-2013, 13:54   #132
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To me it would be the retired LEOs who would be in limbo. They would probably have to also go with the 7-round limit because (as I understand it), they were previously limited to the 10-round mags.

So now will Glock, Sig, Smith, etc... build special 7-round mags for just NY? I can't see that happening. Or is the reality going to be, you can use any mag you want, but can only load up to 7-rounds in it? (like the honor system?)

I am too old to remember, but did Glock make a pistol to meet the FEDERAL AWB back in 94?

Also, no facetiousness here - how many cops here are active in gun rights organizations, how many write their congress-critters? Donate to the SAF, NRA-ILA? I don't know, so I ask.

I'd like each and every one of you to do your 20/25 and enjoy life after that 20 for at least another 30.

I admit I am selfish. It is my hope that retired LE do not get a special carry privilege (they don't get one now). Maybe those extra 10,000 voices would carry weight in the halls of Albany. Well, NYSP already issues it's own permits to retired NYSP MOS - they handle permits for their own. Our governor is a toolbag, With regards to his road map to the White House, I hope he's dinged himself in the nuts, face, foot and chest (complete figure of speech here).
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:11   #133
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This whole 7-round thing is so bizarre, I don't even know how that number came about.

I mean, with the previous NYS 10-round mag restriction, there was the Clinton national AWB which had the 10-round restriction. When that expired, NYS said, "OK, we're keeping it." I can see that logic flow.

But this 7-round thing? This has as much logic flow as some GNGers' posts.
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:22   #134
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Take it up with President Bush, he signed it.
Quit hatin'.


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I have to take exception to this. If you guys respond to an armed call, you have the luxury of backup with more guys showing up with firearms. In addition, most of you are equipped with body armor not available to civilians.
If a civilian has to get in a shootout with the same bad guys, he gets hindered and endangered with an arbitrary law restricting his magazine capacity.
I have to say that it is unfathomable why a rank and file law enforcement officer would begrudge a legally licensed, armed citizen from enjoying the exact same ability to defend himself that a law enforcement officer does.
It stinks of elitism. This is the kind of attitude that creates a chasm between citizens and law enforcement.
I would hope to see all LEOs close ranks with legal concealed license holders and insist that they be given the same consideration.
In the end, all these bans ever do is make politicians feel better. You and I both know they are dog and pony shows. The AWB will create a vacuum that will be filled by fully automatic arms off the international arms market. We can't keep drugs or illegal aliens out of our country, what makes anyone think the guns won't pour in as soon as these laws are passed? I can point out several instances of this around the world.
Never for a minute think that we the armed citizenry are against you. I have my heartburn with a lot of things in law enforcement, much of it directed at the admin and leadership. I know most street cops are great people doing a crappy job managing the human garbage we allow to roam our streets and terrorize our neighborhoods.
Now is the time when all the pro-gun factions need to close ranks and present a united front against these abuses of power by the elected.
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:22   #135
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
Tell you what, show me evidence of cops who have been attacked while "OFF DUTY AND IN PLAIN CLOTHES" that's higher than the statistical average of John Q. Public.

Yes, I'm aware of the guys that attack while you're "on duty and in uniform", but that's not what I'm talking about.

You say you want more "special rights" than the average citizen because of your job. Well, show me the evidence of why you "need" them over and above any other citizen.

Until then, you're argruments have been less than persuasive.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
It is usually around 10% annually, according to the FBI... just saying
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:28   #136
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Also, no facetiousness here - how many cops here are active in gun rights organizations, how many write their congress-critters? Donate to the SAF, NRA-ILA? I don't know, so I ask.

Dear Cochese-

Thank you for your donation to Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, Colorado's only no-compromise gun rights group. *We're happy to have you on-board Colorado's leading advocate for your right to keep and bear arms.

If at any time you have questions, or would like to request materials (such as decals, our Merchant Awareness cards, etc), * you can use our online form at: *http://www.rmgo.org/materials.

Your donation today also makes you a full member in Rocky Mountain Gun Owners. *As a member of RMGO you now have an account on the Colorado Gun Market website (http://www.ColoGunMarket.com) where members have the ability to place unlimited firearm ads online. *This email contains your updated Colorado Gun Market access credentials (see below).

Of course, you're always welcome to contact us at:
office@rmgo.org *or *970-482-7646

To go back to our main page. click www.rmgo.org

You may print this page as a record of your donation and membership.


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Rocky Mountain Gun Owners is registered as a non-profit organization with the Colorado Secretary of State, however, donations to RMGO are not considered tax deductible by the IRS
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:31   #137
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
This whole 7-round thing is so bizarre, I don't even know how that number came about.

I mean, with the previous NYS 10-round mag restriction, there was the Clinton national AWB which had the 10-round restriction. When that expired, NYS said, "OK, we're keeping it." I can see that logic flow.

But this 7-round thing? This has as much logic flow as some GNGers' posts.
It is very clear to those of us who know and understand Cuomo, Bloomberg, and the rest of the anti-gun NY contingent.

  • For starters, let's ram thru a bill to law when people are not prepared for a discussion based on logic, but based on emotion. This is a sure sign of a manipulative prick.
  • Get in front of the parade, out do CA, MA, etc with mag limits
  • Pick a number for that is worse than where they are prepared to settle if this thing successfully litigates to their detriment, so at worst, the 10 round count is found to be reasonable
  • Pick a mag capacity that AUTOMATICALLY disqualifies most handguns that you already "hate" ("Glock"), and most of the rifles that you fear.
  • In five years use the same tired argument that more gun control is needed, reduce the number of rounds a mag can hold from 7 to 5. Surely, that would not be asking for much, and think of the lives that might will be saved!
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:33   #138
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Dear Cochese-

Thank you for your donation to Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, Colorado's only no-compromise gun rights group. ...
Make a $300 donation to the Gallium-Germanium Group of Lonely Elements and I might believe ya!

(good stuff sir).
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:36   #139
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Cochese,

The only problem with repealing or stopping gun control is that it seems like when politicians do pass gun control that affects the police too, the police dont fight the legislation they only fight to get an exemption for themselves.

Once the police do get exempted, you never hear from the police again about how wrong or ineffective the new gun control law is other than places like GT. The police don't lobby our legislature to overturn anything or to support ccw nationwide.

I remember watching a chief on the news testifying before Congress about LEOSA back on 2004 when the law was being considered. The chief thought federal law should allow active/retired leos to ccw nationwide, but it should be up to the states when it comes to private citizens ccw.

I know you and other leos here on GT are very pro-2A, citizen ccw nationwide, but leos as a whole do not fight very often or very hard for citizens gun rights.

I really think if the police in this country became more vocal and publicly supported the 2A everytime some gun grabber introduced ridiculous legislation we would ALL be better off.

Look at the police in NY. They are not fighting the new magazine restriction, they are just trying to get an exemption for themselves.

I for one, am not permitted to even write a letter to the local paper, without clearing it through the Sheriff.

Even if it is deemed acceptable to have an opinion on a particular subject, if it is not the same as my Sheriff, who do you think will be on the poopoo list?

***Let the record reflect that my boss is pro gun***

Having said that, what are you talking about in fighting for "citizens rights?" Unless we were in uniform, how would you know whether a person writing letters, contacting their legislators, contributing to the NRA was an LEO or not?

It is very bad taste to conduct personal business in uniform.
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Old 01-19-2013, 14:49   #140
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This whole 7-round thing is so bizarre, I don't even know how that number came about.

But this 7-round thing? This has as much logic flow as some GNGers' posts.
Quote:
It is very clear to those of us who know and understand Cuomo, Bloomberg, and the rest of the anti-gun NY contingent.

[*]For starters, let's ram thru a bill to law when people are not prepared for a discussion based on logic, but based on emotion.

OK, so basically, a lot of the anti-LEO posters on GNG are on the same mental level as Cuomo, Bloomberg and company. Not surprised.

Gotcha. Thanks.
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Old 01-19-2013, 15:44   #141
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That's exactly right. We are not a lobby, we are part of the executive branch of government and engage in law enforcement activities.
Correct. You are not a lobby, but police agencies and police unions do lobby legislatures all the time for legislation you would like to see enacted for the benefit of police officers.

Too often when it comes to gun rights, your lobbying stops with leos and leaves out the rest of us.

Just like with the 2004 nationwide ccw for active/retired leos and NYS efforts to exempt themselves from the 7 round magazine limit.

I am sure others here can cite other examples as well.
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Old 01-19-2013, 15:58   #142
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Furthermore, ICARRY2, who have you seen on TV speaking about these issues? Universally, it's someone with stars on their lapels. Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs, administrators and obviously Sheriffs are political positions and thereby carry a certain weight with their opinions (no matter how hackneyed they are). Think about the last time you saw Patrol Officer Jones on the news espousing their opinions on national CCW. Why is that? Because the media and those in the higher levels of government don't care about the opinions of peons like us. They rely on our Chief to express our opinions on our behalf. If the opinions expressed don't reflect ours, we don't really have much in the way of recourse, do we?

I dare say the average police officer in this country couldn't care less about high capacity magazines, or if you're carrying a firearm legally. Those in the upper eschelons of police adminsitration care, and their views must align with those of their betters so they can keep their position and advance. Politics, see?

Add to that the very real possibility a department may have a general order or some such directive barring a plain old street cop from expressing personal opinions while representing the department, and you'll never hear what the officer pushing the squad car really thinks.
I understand your point about individual leos speaking out in an official capacity, but as Grimlet stated you belong to police organizations that represent your interest. Grimlet is asking you to contact those reps to amend leosa so the police are not affected by magazine limits. Which is exactly what I'm talking about. Passing exemptions for the police and not fighting for gun rights in general so there wouldn't be a need for an exemption in the first place.
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Old 01-19-2013, 15:58   #143
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Originally Posted by ICARRY2 View Post
Correct. You are not a lobby, but police agencies and police unions do lobby legislatures all the time for legislation you would like to see enacted for the benefit of police officers.

Too often when it comes to gun rights, your lobbying stops with leos and leaves out the rest of us.

Just like with the 2004 nationwide ccw for active/retired leos and NYS efforts to exempt themselves from the 7 round magazine limit.

I am sure others here can cite other examples as well.
The NRA is much more powerful than any police association. They have more money. More connection. More juice. Really.

And thank you for your past support of, and financial contributions to, LE associations. And all your future support as well. Really.
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Last edited by Patchman; 01-19-2013 at 16:00..
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Old 01-19-2013, 15:59   #144
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Old 01-19-2013, 16:00   #145
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However, we do belong to certain LE organizations who look out for our interests.

And I hope all here are petitioning their PBA, FOP, Union or other association to amend LEOSA to include high capacity magazines.

Thanks.


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Yes. Exactly what I am talking about.
Thank you.
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Old 01-19-2013, 16:23   #146
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OK, so basically, a lot of the anti-LEO posters on GNG are on the same mental level as Cuomo, Bloomberg and company. Not surprised.

Gotcha. Thanks.

I would hope you are discerning enough to see that I am posting akin to reporting like a fly on the wall, and not my own thoughts.

Please tell me you at least get this.
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Old 01-19-2013, 16:42   #147
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I would hope you are discerning enough to see that I am posting akin to reporting like a fly on the wall, and not my own thoughts.

Please tell me you at least get this.

Yes, yes, yes. I don't associate you with the likes of Cuomo, Bloomberg or any other politician.

I'm just noting that their logic flow on issues is the same as the logic flow from some GNG posters. Which is, there's no logic flow. And also, the issues are different.
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Old 01-19-2013, 16:44   #148
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The NRA is much more powerful than any police association. They have more money. More connection. More juice. Really.
Last time I checked leos could ccw nationwide. The average gun owner could not.
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Old 01-19-2013, 17:10   #149
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Yes, yes, yes. I don't associate you with the likes of Cuomo, Bloomberg or any other politician.

I'm just noting that their logic flow on issues is the same as the logic flow from some GNG posters. Which is, there's no logic flow. And also, the issues are different.



I'd much rather you accuse me of fondling farm animals than that I have an affinity for Bloomberg et al.


I am thinking about writing a letter to the NYT, to ask them if they would publish an "open letter" to His Royal Majesty, The Rt. Honorable Andrew M. Coumo. It would be about 4-5 paragraphs long, would piss off some gun owners, and be lost on mostly anyone south of I-84 and again south of I-495.
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Old 01-19-2013, 17:12   #150
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
The NRA is much more powerful than any police association. They have more money. More connection. More juice. Really.
.
If that were the case, the NRA would have been able to sway Congress as LE did to enact HR218.

In all the noise, thank you (everybody except Patchman ) for doing a thankless, demoralizing job. I've tried to instill in my offspring a healthy respect and appreciation for public "servants", and especially for LE.

- G
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