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Old 01-17-2013, 16:16   #81
Gallium
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DaBigBr,

Some corrections officers here meet all of those criteria, and are "peace" officers, and have convoluted rules about what happens when they punch out from that job.
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Old 01-17-2013, 16:16   #82
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
And how is limiting an off duty or visiting cop's mag limit counterproductive? You can tell me it is, but how is it?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
How is limiting any legal gun owners handgun magazine productive?

If a certain user group has a chance to regain their right, you become annoyed.

We, as a group, are attempting to help ourselves. We are not whining about someone having something others may have.

If you dont like a law, petition your law makers and get it changed.

I am pushing for a change in LEOSA to cover higher capacity magazines for off duty and retired LEOs.

It is not about being held to a higher standard. Its about picking and choosing your battle. The realistic win involving magazine capacity for us is changing LEOSA.


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Old 01-17-2013, 17:10   #83
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Originally Posted by GRIMLET View Post
How is limiting any legal gun owners handgun magazine productive?

If a certain user group has a chance to regain their right, you become annoyed.

We, as a group, are attempting to help ourselves. We are not whining about someone having something others may have.

If you dont like a law, petition your law makers and get it changed.

I am pushing for a change in LEOSA to cover higher capacity magazines for off duty and retired LEOs.

It is not about being held to a higher standard. Its about picking and choosing your battle. The realistic win involving magazine capacity for us is changing LEOSA.


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So what you're saying is: I want more special rights than anyone else because of my profession, it can be very dangerous.

But that doesn't explain why you need more rights than any other citizen when you're "off duty", or visiting another state out of your jurisdiction.

So, tell me again how you're working for everyone's rights? You're not, you're just like the legislature that passes bills with themselves being exempt, you just want a piece of the "well, I'm deserving of an exemption" crowd.

You can't abide by the state laws like everyone else, no matter how stupid they are?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 17:30   #84
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At this point New York law enforcement is limited to seven rounds.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ork&id=8958116

Duh!

"We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it."


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Old 01-17-2013, 17:39   #85
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What responsibilities or protection does an off duty cop have? Aren't they basically citizens at that point, who can walk away from a crime in progress? If they choose to defend, can't they still be prosecuted or sued in civil court as any other civilian?

Serious question, I don't know.
According to a number of court cases, up to and including the US Supreme Court if memory serves, even on duty cops have no duty to protect and defend members of the general population.


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Old 01-17-2013, 17:51   #86
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i just finished breaking iin a beretta nano if i ever have to go to ny, and my sister will have to come to me now. i will use the nano with its 6 rd mag plus several spares.stupid law passed by stupid politicos. remember his when he is runniong fro president.
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:37   #87
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What responsibilities or protection does an off duty cop have? Aren't they basically citizens at that point, who can walk away from a crime in progress? If they choose to defend, can't they still be prosecuted or sued in civil court as any other civilian?

Serious question, I don't know.
This varies by locality to some degree. As a certified peace officer in my state, I have powers of arrest for all offenses throughout the state at all times whether on duty or off. Department policy restricts what I am allowed to do, but department policy is for internal use only and a violation of policy does not equal civil or criminal liability.

I'll go out on a limb and say that most agencies make off duty carry optional and set policies regarding when and if an officer may take enforcement action while off duty. Officers taking law enforcement action off duty may still be entitled to qualified immunity as they are when on duty. Officers who are on duty can be criminally prosecuted and/or civilly sued, just like those who are off duty.

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According to a number of court cases, up to and including the US Supreme Court if memory serves, even on duty cops have no duty to protect and defend members of the general population.
The purpose of law enforcement is order maintenance and the proetection of society at large, not individual people, unless a special relationship exists. If your house gets broken in to, you can't sue the police department for failing to prevent it. If a member of your family is murdered, you can't sue the police department for failing to prevent it.

That changes when a "special relationship" is created. For example, if I place a person under arrest, I do now have a responsibility to protect that indivdual person and may be liable if something happens to them.
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:42   #88
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This whole thing is a nightmare,the amending of LEOSA to address these issues is imperative. I only hope this useless law does not result in the death of a retired MOS. Picture a retired police officer that trains an qualifies with a pistol that holds more than 7 in the magazine and during an incident the gun is emptied but do to prior training you reflexively try to clear what you perceive as a jam in a now empty pistol. The nanoseconds lost can be get you killed. I qualify with a Glock 27 every year.
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What part of "shall not be infringed" does the Democratic Party not understand? The TAX and BAN Party needs to be voted out.

Last edited by fla2760; 01-17-2013 at 18:46..
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Old 01-17-2013, 18:54   #89
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This whole thing is a nightmare,the amending of LEOSA to address these issues is imperative. I only hope this useless law does not result in the death of a retired MOS. Picture a retired police officer that trains an qualifies with a pistol that holds more than 7 in the magazine and during an incident the gun is emptied but do to prior training you reflexively try to clear what you perceive as a jam in a now empty pistol. The nanoseconds lost can be get you killed. I qualify with a Glock 27 every year.
So why is it any different if a world renowned heart surgeon has the same problem? I would feel just as bad if it were anyone.

Why are police so set on getting just exemptions for them, and not everyone else?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 19:29   #90
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
So what you're saying is: I want more special rights than anyone else because of my profession, it can be very dangerous.

But that doesn't explain why you need more rights than any other citizen when you're "off duty", or visiting another state out of your jurisdiction.

So, tell me again how you're working for everyone's rights? You're not, you're just like the legislature that passes bills with themselves being exempt, you just want a piece of the "well, I'm deserving of an exemption" crowd.

You can't abide by the state laws like everyone else, no matter how stupid they are?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
No, Clyde. Thats not what I am saying. And you know that.

The rights I am fighting for are not special in any way as you describe it.

You either dont get it or you just like to troll cops. Whatever.

And no, I am not trying to pass legislation for eveyone regarding magazines Thats your job if you fit in that group. It is probably a lost cause. I choose to put my efforts into legislation which has a chance of passing.

Go play with your little stick somewhere else. Bu-bye




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Old 01-17-2013, 19:35   #91
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
So why is it any different if a world renowned heart surgeon has the same problem? I would feel just as bad if it were anyone.

Why are police so set on getting just exemptions for them, and not everyone else?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
This thread is addressing LEOSA. I am no fan of any of this new legislation. How many heart surgeons were instrumental in sending people to prison.
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What part of "shall not be infringed" does the Democratic Party not understand? The TAX and BAN Party needs to be voted out.
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Old 01-17-2013, 19:36   #92
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Come for some Genny Cream Ale. Stay for the wings

Wonder if you could have a 10-round mag if it was possesd before the ban. I can, but not sure if you could bring it in state.
I can stay in PA and get that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 19:41   #93
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Originally Posted by railfancwb View Post
At this point New York law enforcement is limited to seven rounds.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ork&id=8958116

Duh!

"We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it."


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All I got from that was a senator that agrees that the bad guys can't have more ammo, so why the limiting.
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Old 01-17-2013, 19:53   #94
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Originally Posted by fla2760 View Post
This thread is addressing LEOSA. I am no fan of any of this new legislation. How many heart surgeons were instrumental in sending people to prison.
My testimony was responsible for sending two Airman to military prison for dereliction of duty when I was Active Duty, does that count?

Shouldn't veterans have the same "extra rights"?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 20:20   #95
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
So why is it any different if a world renowned heart surgeon has the same problem? I would feel just as bad if it were anyone.

Why are police so set on getting just exemptions for them, and not everyone else?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
I would welcome the AMA to lobby their connections in Washington DC and the various states to get exemptions for their heart surgeons.

Given the AMA's connections to monies, political connections and political juice, they'd probably be more effective than any LEOSA effort.
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Old 01-17-2013, 21:04   #96
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Why would LEOSA apply to retired NJ cops within NJ?

I thought LEOSA addressed interstate travel of retired and active police officers. Since retired NJ cops living in NJ obviously is not an interstate travel thing I don't see where the federal law applies.

That said, I cannot believe a retired NJ cop carrying his NJ concealed carry permit is going to get jammed up for carrying HPs.

Maybe a Garden State cop could chime in with his understandings?
I am retired from NJ but work a different job in NYC. It is true that as of my last qualification (twice a year) retired NJ Police can not carry hollow points. Silly, I Know. We do carry Hornaday Critical Defense rounds. They are esentially hollow point but the hollow point is filled with some softer red type of matter.

I cant get a clear answer as to if I can carry my 10 round glock mag in NYC. As for now, I carry my LCP and 5 shot smith.
I'll keep ya posted.
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Old 01-17-2013, 22:55   #97
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After this I won't got into the state on principle alone. I'd wanting to visit NYC at some point but I will not use my money to support a state that will pass this crap.
i don't blame you, brother. i avoid illinois, nj, hawaii, md and cali for the same reason...

me and the family enjoy visiting your place, though.
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Old 01-17-2013, 23:31   #98
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It is true that as of my last qualification (twice a year) retired NJ Police can not carry hollow points.
unreal...
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Old 01-17-2013, 23:59   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
And how is limiting an off duty or visiting cop's mag limit counterproductive? You can tell me it is, but how is it?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
Really?

I can't make logic appear in your head, dude.

Police officers, even "off duty" can and will respond to SHTF scenarios. WASTING time on *****ing about police not being restricted INSTEAD of putting forth the effort to make sure the ban doesn't happen to ANY OF US...

IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.
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Old 01-17-2013, 23:59   #100
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I sent my letters to my reps Clyde.

Have you?
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Someone brought that up at a shooting I was involved in. I said he should have stopped. They said "what about Garner v. Tennessee."? I told them, " his name ain't Garner and we ain't in Tennessee!"

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