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Old 01-17-2013, 09:18   #61
Gallium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBigBR View Post
Clearly.

Look up 18USC926B. The requirements set forth for a person to be considered a "qualified law enforcement officer" are what are covered in this thread, not who may or may not "technically be a peace officer in New York.

Hey, I am married, I don't need to come here to be insulted.

"qualified law enforcement officer" is the wording in LEOSA...but what if your state statute does not have that specific definition? Then you have to look at what HR218 uses to define that term, and to see who in your own state qualifies under the law.

So now I will ask you in a thread about NY's new law....and HR218, what is the extent of your knowledge of who qualifies under HR218 in NY? Because clearly, although you are a police officer SOMEWHERE in the CONUS, it does not make you (or as we are seeing here in NY) any of us, experts at this new serving of crap our legislature has handed us.

- G
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:20   #62
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Lest you overlook, this bill is based on emotion rather than reason. There's very little meritorious in the bill. 7Round limits and mag cap is just asinine. Don't bother discarding your 10rd mags, just load with 7 if you're really concerned about this.

Yeah, and buying 10 rd mags is now or will be illegal, but only buying them physically in the state or using the electronica to buy them and have them shipped in state.

So you can saunter down to PA, or VA or FL, or anywhere else that does not give a hoot, legally buy 2 dozen 10 round mags and drive back in state with them.

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Old 01-17-2013, 11:05   #63
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Has anyone posted this yet? Can't really blame the FFL's because NY is just itching for a reason to shut them down.

http://www.bob-owens.com/2013/01/oop...d-ny-safe-act/

As he rushed through a draconian gun control law that neither he nor the legislature in New York had time to read before they voted in favor of it and signed it into law, Governor Andrew Cuomo arrogantly said:

“Common sense can win. You can overpower the extremists with intelligence and with reason and with common sense.”

Well, according to a read this morning in the comments of another post, Governor “Common Sense” did not put any obvious law enforcement officer exceptions into his hastily rushed through bill.

As a result, at least one Federal Firearms Licensee has refused to allow police officers who have purchased guns to have the magazines that come with them, because those factory standard magazines hold more than seven rounds. The FFL fears selling the guns he has with the magazines they came with would be breaking the law, even when the purchasers are cops, because there are no clear provisions in the bill allowing a police exception to the ban.

Now, New York’s boys in blue would seem to presumably be exempted by other related statutes, and if they aren’t then one will be quickly hacked together, but this anecdote serves to show the danger of rushing emotionally-driven, politically opportunistic legislation. People are stupid, and are never more stupid than when emotional and irrational.

Governor “Common Sense” Cuomo is a stumbling, bumbling example of the kind of person emotionally unsuited for high office, a fact the flaws in the draconian SAFE Act will show over time as unintended consequences catch up to bad legislation.
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Old 01-17-2013, 13:18   #64
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Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post

......... you're good with a 9rd mag as long as you knock off the top two and keep 'em in your pocket

To wit there's no exception for NY LE even, but I'm not worried about it. For whatever that's worth.
Yeah, this is how I am interpreting the law, as I read it.

Basically, if it is a 10 round mag, owned prior to the new ban, then it is grandfathered in and is thus legal WITH only 7 rounds. Obviously this would apply, in the immediate sense, to a NY resident. It seems to me that a visiting, out-of-state, off-duty LEO, legally concealed-carrying under LEOSA, is NOT in violation NY state law by being in possession of a 9 round magazine load with only 7 rounds.
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Old 01-17-2013, 13:45   #65
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Originally Posted by Panzergrenadier1979 View Post
Yeah, this is how I am interpreting the law, as I read it.

Basically, if it is a 10 round mag, owned prior to the new ban, then it is grandfathered in and is thus legal WITH only 7 rounds. Obviously this would apply, in the immediate sense, to a NY resident. It seems to me that a visiting, out-of-state, off-duty LEO, legally concealed-carrying under LEOSA, is NOT in violation NY state law by being in possession of a 9 round magazine load with only 7 rounds.
Correct. Of course if you're out of state bringing a 10rd mag in you're fine regardless of relative date of possession.
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:01   #66
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Take it up with President Bush, he signed it.
Quit hatin'.


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Hmm, read Animal Farm much ? I wasn't going to respond in this thread but............. Seems a lot of you guys are asking for "special rights" over and above the normal citizen, and NY didn't give it to you.

If you're off duty, well, be off duty.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:09   #67
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Ignore the troll.

There is nothing to see here except mature professionals having an informative discussion.

Back to the discussion at hand.........
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:23   #68
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Originally Posted by Panzergrenadier1979 View Post
Ignore the troll.

There is nothing to see here except mature professionals having an informative discussion.

Back to the discussion at hand.........
Sure, call me a troll, but it's the truth you can't stand to see.

So, what is it that makes you so special? Are you some leader of technology that will change the way the world does things? Or a doctor, that has the cure for any ailment known to mankind? Shouldn't there also be exemptions for "special people" that will change the world in a positive way??

The people that passed Obamacare exempted themselves from it, along with their cohorts in corruption and crime. Was that OK for you too?


Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day



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Old 01-17-2013, 14:28   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzergrenadier1979 View Post
...
There is nothing to see here except mature professionals having an informative discussion.

Back to the discussion at hand.........

Coupla things...

1. I, along with a few others would take offense at mistakenly characterizing me as "mature" or "professional".


2. Kenpo, geez louise, give it a break. GNG, Carry Issues, the political forum, etc etc...I take a dump in bathrooms, not in the middle of the living room with company over. There are lots of place on GT to vent about crap you (we) don't like. This aint the place (not my words, Eric's).
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:33   #70
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Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
Coupla things...

1. I, along with a few others would take offense at mistakenly characterizing me as "mature" or "professional".


2. Kenpo, geez louise, give it a break. GNG, Carry Issues, the political forum, etc etc...I take a dump in bathrooms, not in the middle of the living room with company over. There are lots of place on GT to vent about crap you (we) don't like. This aint the place (not my words, Eric's).
Take it up with the OP, he/she posted it here.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:37   #71
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post

So, what is it that makes you so special? Are you some leader of technology that will change the way the world does things? Or a doctor, that has the cure for any ailment known to mankind? Shouldn't there also be exemptions for "special people" that will change the world in a positive way??
Well, we're the ones who will run towards fan-hitting ****; you'd rather we be constrained to mag caps just because non-LE is? Try to let go of the immature attitude of 'they can have it I want it too'. It's a horse**** law and it's wrong civilians are subject to it, but LE should be exempt.
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:43   #72
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Well, we're the ones who will run towards fan-hitting ****; you'd rather we be constrained to mag caps just because non-LE is? Try to let go of the immature attitude of 'they can have it I want it too'. It's a horse**** law and it's wrong civilians are subject to it, but LE should be exempt.
Seriously, that's what makes you special???? I know at least 20 right now that I could call and they would do the same thing if needed. And most of them are combat vets, but they are not awarded the same "special rights" .

Scraps from the King's table, that's what you're looking for, and guess who'll be enforcing those laws (hint, mirror)?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 14:52   #73
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Have a wimmins parts are all clean here gun carrying day!
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Someone brought that up at a shooting I was involved in. I said he should have stopped. They said "what about Garner v. Tennessee."? I told them, " his name ain't Garner and we ain't in Tennessee!"

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Old 01-17-2013, 14:56   #74
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Have a wimmins parts are all clean here gun carrying day!
Don't you hate it when I can hammer the truth you so despise, and then you resort to name calling. How professional.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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Old 01-17-2013, 15:01   #75
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Don't you hate it when I can hammer the truth you so despise, and then you resort to name calling. How professional.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
What truth, junior?

You are a loud mouth blowhard who has a twisted idea of how the world works, makes asinine dooshbag self defense YouTube videos and continually picks fights in a police subforum.

Like I give a rats ass about your worthless opinion. Kenpo teacher that looks like he hasn't seen a day of cardio or a shower in three weeks.

Let me make sure I jot down all of your super good advice on life and relevant opinions on LE.

Lol
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Someone brought that up at a shooting I was involved in. I said he should have stopped. They said "what about Garner v. Tennessee."? I told them, " his name ain't Garner and we ain't in Tennessee!"

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Old 01-17-2013, 15:03   #76
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What truth, junior?

You are a loud mouth blowhard who has a twisted idea of how the world works, makes asinine dooshbag self defense YouTube videos and continually picks fights in a police subforum.

Like I give a rats ass about your worthless opinion. Kenpo teacher that looks like he hasn't seen a day of cardio or a shower in three weeks.

Let me make sure I jot down all of your super good advice on life and relevant opinions on LE.

Lol
So I see you're debasing me and not the message, why is that? I have done nothing to anyone on this thread, not personally threatened or called names.

Have a serious conversation about why you're right and I'm wrong.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 15:08   #77
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You debase yourself. You have no credibility. I call them as I see them. Always have.

If you had come in here years ago without being a total jerkoff then you wouldn't be in the position you are in.

None of us in here (the cops) agree with or want a ban. That said, pushing to limit the police to what the moron legislature wants to limit the citizens to... is counterproductive.

The focus should be on stopping unconstitutional legislation or overturning it asap. Not compounding it to LE.

If you are too dense to pick up the how and why then I can't help you.
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Someone brought that up at a shooting I was involved in. I said he should have stopped. They said "what about Garner v. Tennessee."? I told them, " his name ain't Garner and we ain't in Tennessee!"

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Old 01-17-2013, 15:33   #78
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And how is limiting an off duty or visiting cop's mag limit counterproductive? You can tell me it is, but how is it?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 01-17-2013, 15:57   #79
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Hey, I am married, I don't need to come here to be insulted.

"qualified law enforcement officer" is the wording in LEOSA...but what if your state statute does not have that specific definition? Then you have to look at what HR218 uses to define that term, and to see who in your own state qualifies under the law.

So now I will ask you in a thread about NY's new law....and HR218, what is the extent of your knowledge of who qualifies under HR218 in NY? Because clearly, although you are a police officer SOMEWHERE in the CONUS, it does not make you (or as we are seeing here in NY) any of us, experts at this new serving of crap our legislature has handed us.

- G
The requirements are simply and generally given a wide berth when courts have interpreted.

Here is the law:

Quote:
A “qualified active law enforcement officer” is defined as an employee of a government agency who:

-is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation,
prosecution or the incarceration of any person for any violation of law;

-has statutory powers of arrest;

-is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

-is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency which could result in suspension or loss of police powers;

-meets the standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

-is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance, and

-is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing a firearm.
So, what matters is that the person is:

1) An employee of a government agency. If you have a guy that created a police department at his animal rescue, then he is NOT a government employee.

2) Authorized by law to detect, investigate, prosecute, or incarcerate people for any violation of law. This requirement is relatively straight forward and I think the phrase "for any violation of law" is a hint as to how broad it was intended.

3) Has statutory powers of arrest. The law gives no interpretation of what this means and whether or not the person must have statutory powers of arrest off duty. I suggest it was meant to be worded that way since the law was designed to allow officers to carry throughout the country, where their statutory powers of arrest would not extend, anyway.

4) Authorized by their agency to carry a firearm. No qualifiers are placed on this statement such as "on duty", etc.

The remainder of the clauses deal with qualification, disciplinary action, and drug use.

So, do the assorted people you mention under New York law get to carry? The question is as simple as whether the above clauses apply. The person's ability to obtain a permit in New York has nothing to do with it as the analysis will always be whether or not they meet the requirements under 926B (or 926C for retired folks).

Also worth pointing out that a "qualified law enforcement officer" is not the same as a permit holder. HR218 only allows limitations to be placed on carrying in government buildings and preserves laws allowing private property owners to restrict people from carrying on their property.

And I'm 2,000 miles from New York.
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Old 01-17-2013, 16:02   #80
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What responsibilities or protection does an off duty cop have? Aren't they basically citizens at that point, who can walk away from a crime in progress? If they choose to defend, can't they still be prosecuted or sued in civil court as any other civilian?

Serious question, I don't know.
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