GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2013, 12:54   #1
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
JPL Wins religious discrimination suit

Apologies if this has been posted before - I did a couple of quick searches and nothing came back.

A while back, here on GT, there were a couple of threads about this lawsuit.

The results are in:

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/brea...nation-lawsuit


Full proposed statement of decision at http://ncse.com/files/20121130_Propo...f-Decision.pdf

The court's ruling adopting the proposed statement of decision: http://ncse.com/files/20130116_Court...f_Decision.pdf
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 01-20-2013 at 12:56..
void * is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 13:42   #2
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 979
"The evidence shows that Caltech has a detailed layoff policy, incorporating a layoff ranking process, which (Coppedge's supervisor) carried out. The evidence clearly shows that (Coppedge's co- workers) were more qualified than Coppedge regarding the skills needed on the project going forward, such as SCO/ ITL, web servers, and Linux, and that Coppedge had a history of poor customer relationships, particularly in comparison to the other System Administrators," the judgement said.

Poorly qualified and a jerk. Of course they fired him.
__________________
Every time you disagree with me, God kills a kitten.
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 13:43   #3
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Gunhaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 15:18   #4
JBnTX
Texas
 
JBnTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between The Red And Rio Grande
Posts: 15,589
Satan wins another one...

"You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." - Mark 13:13

..

Last edited by JBnTX; 01-20-2013 at 15:30..
JBnTX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 17:57   #5
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Satan wins another one...

"You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." - Mark 13:13

..
Are you saying the should have kept him, even though others were clearly more qualified, simply because he was religious?
Sarge1400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 18:38   #6
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
If it's ignorant to consider creationism as a Christian Religious view... why is it religious discrimination even if they did lay him off for accepting creationism? Seems they laid of a scientist that accepts junk science. Can't be religious discrimination if creationism is just an alternative scientific explanation. If creationism IS a religious view... it isn't any kind of science.
Glock36shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 19:07   #7
JBnTX
Texas
 
JBnTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between The Red And Rio Grande
Posts: 15,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post

Are you saying the should have kept him, even though others were clearly more qualified, simply because he was religious?
My post says what it says.
JBnTX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 19:15   #8
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
My post says what it says.
Lol, ok. Watch out for the boogeyman.
Sarge1400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 19:27   #9
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
If it's ignorant to consider creationism as a Christian Religious view...
It's not an ignorant claim to claim that, it's obviously a gnostic claim to claim that. Not a smidgen more gnostic to claim that there has never been a deity. Prejudgement should be avoided as much as possible, and tolerance should be pursued, well, if you don't want to see 7 figure legal settlements.

Quote:
why is it religious discrimination even if they did lay him off for accepting creationism? Seems they laid of a scientist that accepts junk science. Can't be religious discrimination if creationism is just an alternative scientific explanation. If creationism IS a religious view... it isn't any kind of science.
If it can be proven that his supervisors treated him differently because of his beliefs, there is a case here. His lawyers will be very happy about that.

The bold and enlarged red portion of your post above seem to imply that you don't understand a lot about EEO or the first amendment to the Constitution. There is also a very high probability that you do not have a lot of experience in labor relations law. Do some case law searches, and you will realize that being legally protected does not mean that their opinions agree with yours. In fact, discriminating solely based on a religious belief that you disagree with, might open you and your organization up to a rather large amount of financial liability. In fact, a manager posting online that they support that kind of behavior, can open themselves and their employer to a surprising amount of liability, both personal and organizational.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 01-20-2013 at 19:31..
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 19:36   #10
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
Are you saying the should have kept him, even though others were clearly more qualified, simply because he was religious?
You'd be surprised how much information you can get with the FIOA and title 5 USC 7114(b)(4).

Personal emails between management officials are not off limits. If someone made a statement that a disinterested third party would agree was religiously discriminatory, and he was denied a job based on his religious persuasion, the bosses are screwed.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 19:48   #11
Sarge1400
Senior Member
 
Sarge1400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
You'd be surprised how much information you can get with the FIOA and title 5 USC 7114(b)(4).

Personal emails between management officials are not off limits. If someone made a statement that a disinterested third party would agree was religiously discriminatory, and he was denied a job based on his religious persuasion, the bosses are screwed.
I don't disagree, but it hardly means "Satan wins".
Sarge1400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 19:51   #12
Gunhaver
the wrong hands
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,736
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
If it's ignorant to consider creationism as a Christian Religious view... why is it religious discrimination even if they did lay him off for accepting creationism? Seems they laid of a scientist that accepts junk science. Can't be religious discrimination if creationism is just an alternative scientific explanation. If creationism IS a religious view... it isn't any kind of science.
Oh, snap!

I wonder if I could get my masters in geology, go to work for a oil or mineral prospecting company, immediately switch to a YEC view of geology and then claim religious discrimination when they fired my ass for being useless?

"You won't find any copper over there fellas, the great flood done washed it all away!"

or

"No oil over here. Can't be any oil anywhere. It takes millions of years for that stuff to form and the bible shows the earth to be only 6000 years old!"

Seems like that wouldn't fly.

Last edited by Gunhaver; 01-20-2013 at 19:59..
Gunhaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 20:00   #13
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge1400 View Post
I don't disagree, but it hardly means "Satan wins".
I don't know this satan fellow. But Prima facie, there are some people that forked up. It'll take time to tell.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 20:03   #14
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunhaver View Post
Oh, snap!

I wonder if I could get my masters in geology, go to work for a oil or mineral prospecting company, immediately switch to a YEC view of geology and then claim religious discrimination when they fired my ass for being useless?

"You won't find any copper over there fellas, the great flood done washed it all away!"

or

"No oil over here. Can't be any oil anywhere. It takes millions of years for that stuff to form and the bible shows the earth to be only 6000 years old!"

Seems like that wouldn't fly.
Well you got jokes, but when the judges get involved, they are going to have to answer the question.

"why is it religious discrimination even if they did lay him off for accepting creationism?"

The bell will be rung, and you might be surprised how this one might go down.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 22:33   #15
void *
Dereference Me!
 
void *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: #define NULL ((void *)0)
Posts: 10,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
If it can be proven that his supervisors treated him differently because of his beliefs, there is a case here. His lawyers will be very happy about that.
You seem to have missed a trick, CD.

The case is done and dusted, and Coppedge lost on *every single claim he made*. There cannot be a case when the court has already ruled against you. So you might want to stop arguing as though there were a potential case here. Discovery already done, case was filed in 2010 ... this is the *ruling*.
__________________
"The human mind is seldom satisfied, and is not justifiable by any natural process whatsoever, as regards geometry, our universe differs only slightly from a long-term, bi-directional, single trait selection experiment." -- Maxwell/Einstein/Johansson

Last edited by void *; 01-20-2013 at 22:38..
void * is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2013, 22:44   #16
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,641
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Satan wins another one...

"You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved." - Mark 13:13

..
So you're saying Satan was responsible for his relative lack of qualifications compared to the guys that weren't laid off, and Satan was responsible for him being a dick to his customers?

Randy
steveksux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 01:27   #17
Animal Mother
Not Enough Gun
 
Animal Mother's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 15,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
If it can be proven that his supervisors treated him differently because of his beliefs, there is a case here. His lawyers will be very happy about that.
One, the decision has already been made. That's what the OP is about. Two, it isn't religious discrimination if someone's religious beliefs prevent them from doing the job they were hired to do. Especially when those beliefs are not central tenets of their religion. That is why some states are trying to enact laws to protect pharmacists against having to dispense birth control and why we don't have a flood of Jehovah's Witnesses as phlebotomists.
Quote:
The bold and enlarged red portion of your post above seem to imply that you don't understand a lot about EEO or the first amendment to the Constitution.
Where does the first amendment protect anyone from being fired for being less suited to their position than other employees?
Quote:
There is also a very high probability that you do not have a lot of experience in labor relations law.
Do you?
Quote:
Do some case law searches, and you will realize that being legally protected does not mean that their opinions agree with yours. In fact, discriminating solely based on a religious belief that you disagree with, might open you and your organization up to a rather large amount of financial liability. In fact, a manager posting online that they support that kind of behavior, can open themselves and their employer to a surprising amount of liability, both personal and organizational.
And the decision, as detailed in the first post of the thread, concludes that no such discrimination occurred nor was the individual fired on the basis of his religious beliefs. Silly though they may be.
__________________
"Pain, or damage, don't end the world. Or despair. Or beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man, and give some back."
Animal Mother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 08:53   #18
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
I feel sorry for stupid people.
Glock36shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:00   #19
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by void * View Post
You seem to have missed a trick, CD.

The case is done and dusted, and Coppedge lost on *every single claim he made*. There cannot be a case when the court has already ruled against you. So you might want to stop arguing as though there were a potential case here. Discovery already done, case was filed in 2010 ... this is the *ruling*.
OK. you're right there.

Looks the claims were weighed and adjudicated. But the statement from another said.

Quote:
why is it religious discrimination even if they did lay him off for accepting creationism?
I guess the proper answer should have been, well if that happened, that would be religious discrimination.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:06   #20
JBnTX
Texas
 
JBnTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between The Red And Rio Grande
Posts: 15,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post

I feel sorry for stupid people.
Do you use a certain standard to determine this "stupidity", or is it just defined by people who disagree with you?
JBnTX is online now   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:54.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,063
273 Members
790 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31