[opto_isolator]

According to the US armed forces oath of enlistment (which is outlined here: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm), if our government legislates either via congress or executive order to confiscate firearms, is it not the duty of the armed forces to defend the citizens against the government?

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

[nursetim]

The "obey the orders" is the trick bag.

[plouffedaddy]

Also remember the Posse Comitatus Act and how it applies to each service...

[fnfalman]

Hmmm...I could have sworn that when I took the oath there was a mention of "lawful orders" and not just "order" alone.

[racer88]

Interesting differences between enlisted and officer's oath. I was a Navy officer.

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

Hmmm...I could have sworn that when I took the oath there was a mention of "lawful orders" and not just "order" alone.

Kinda how I remember it as well.

Our service members are not brainless zombies, they have the intelligence and morals to know the difference.

[The_Gun_Guru]

Being that Obummer is NOT a U.S. citizen he is therefore NOT the president.

Besides, if it comes down to using our guns to defend our Constitution, it would behoove all military and LE to take our side and not his. There are 150 MILLION gun owners in America. Even if 1% of them take up arms against our treasonous government, there would be a MINIMUM of 1.5 million guns pointed at these traitors.

And what if NON-gun owners get involved and borrow a gun from a friend, neighbor, relative, etc.? Most gun owners own more than one... We could be talking about two to three million armed patriots!

That's a comforting thought.


TGG

[Travelin' Jack]

Originally Posted by The_Gun_Guru

Being that Obummer is NOT a U.S. citizen he is therefore NOT the president.

Even if he was born in Kenya or where ever, since his mother is a US citizen... isn't he?

[PzGren]

Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack

Even if he was born in Kenya or where ever, since his mother is a US citizen... isn't he?

By the definition from 1790, yes, he is.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by The_Gun_Guru

Being that Obummer is NOT a U.S. citizen he is therefore NOT the president.

Besides, if it comes down to using our guns to defend our Constitution, it would behoove all military and LE to take our side and not his. There are 150 MILLION gun owners in America. Even if 1% of them take up arms against our treasonous government, there would be a MINIMUM of 1.5 million guns pointed at these traitors.

And what if NON-gun owners get involved and borrow a gun from a friend, neighbor, relative, etc.? Most gun owners own more than one... We could be talking about two to three million armed patriots!

That's a comforting thought.


TGG

Yeah the guy is the POTUS rather I want it or not and rather you accept it or not

[The_Gun_Guru]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Yeah the guy is the POTUS rather I want it or not and rather you accept it or not

I don't accept it.....and never will


TGG

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by The_Gun_Guru

I don't accept it.....and never will


TGG

So if you wanted to mail big O a pictures of say your bare ass mooning him, you would mail to what address? 1600 something I think

[cesaros]

There is no trick to this...You don't follow illegal orders, no matter who gives them.

Its the individuals responsibility to refuse to obey illegal orders.

Its the Militias responsibility to protect The People from our standing military and Government. (wow! is that why the 2nd Amendment states that a Militia is necessary for a Free State?!)

Those who love to nit pick the wording and phraseology just to justify to themselves why they or someone else should comply with illegal orders....you're disgusting.

[cesaros]

Originally Posted by nursetim

The "obey the orders" is the trick bag.

You're right, we only defend the United States and the Constitution against foreign and domestic enemies...UNLESS the president or our superiors tell us not to...

What the hell are you thinking...

I sincerely hope you're not a service-member.

[Toyman]

Originally Posted by opto_isolator

According to the US armed forces oath of enlistment (which is outlined here: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joini...thofenlist.htm), if our government legislates either via congress or executive order to confiscate firearms, is it not the duty of the armed forces to defend the citizens against the government?

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The UCMJ states "lawful orders" repeatedly.

[PzGren]

Lawful orders depend on the interpretation of the Courts, when it comes to the U.S. Constitution, it depends on the Supreme Court. Weren't there some staff changes recently?

And who will decide which orders are lawful to follow? The soldier before his court martial?

[SouthernBoyVA]

Originally Posted by nursetim

The "obey the orders" is the trick bag.

However those orders must be legal. I have spoken to a number of military personnel (mostly officers) asking them if they believed the military would carry out any orders issued by the president to confiscate privately owned firearms. They said that some would but most would not because it would be a violation of their oath AND an illegal order.

[The_Gun_Guru]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

So if you wanted to mail big O a pictures of say your bare ass mooning him, you would mail to what address? 1600 something I think

just because he lives there doesn't mean he deserves to.

I could live in a monestary but that doesn't make me a monk :-)


TGG

[nursetim]

So, who is going to be the test case? Most would just follow the order the decision augmented by the info given to the troops. Will this info be complete or spun. I'm just saying y'all are putting an awful lot of faith in folks. What about the German soldiers ordered to imprison and kill their fellow countrymen? What makes them different from us? Were they manipulated by propaganda from their media? Naw, that couldn't happen here, right. I mean our media has a proven track record of unbiased reporting. No wait, reverse that. I just take human nature with a grain of salt. I feel safer that way. Don't fully trust a vast majority of people.

[SPIN2010]

".... according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I would believe this is the real trick, if they conflict the UCMJ & the REGS ... no dice for me.

Whocares about the kenyan.

[opto_isolator]

If many servicemen did this, they'd have a large issue on their hands. If only a few did, I'm sure they'd make sure to make examples of those few. That's why it would be important for a large number to not obey!

[WT]

We frequently read about flag officers who lack integrity.

If the generals and admirals don't follow the rules why should we expect enlisted personnel to do so?

[DonD]

Originally Posted by WT

We frequently read about flag officers who lack integrity.

If the generals and admirals don't follow the rules why should we expect enlisted personnel to do so?

My view being a retired officer is that in the highly unlikely event that troops were told to conduct illegal search and seizure of privately owned firearms is that initially some might comply but when some law abiding citizens started getting killed, back pressure and outright refusal to comply would quickly begin. Hope I'm right.

Glad I never served under this President, LBJ was enough to make me puke. He and his miserable sidekick Robert Strange (boy was he ever) McNamara sent thousands of soldiers, airmen and sailors, officers and enlisted to their deaths in Vietnam all over rotten political games. May he rot in hell. Don

[capnjim01]

So this would be different that Hurbert Hoover having General Douglas MacAuthur attack the Bonus Army camping out in Washington trying to get paid for serving in War World I ?

[SouthernBoyVA]

Originally Posted by DonD

My view being a retired officer is that in the highly unlikely event that troops were told to conduct illegal search and seizure of privately owned firearms is that initially some might comply but when some law abiding citizens started getting killed, back pressure and outright refusal to comply would quickly begin. Hope I'm right.

Glad I never served under this President, LBJ was enough to make me puke. He and his miserable sidekick Robert Strange (boy was he ever) McNamara sent thousands of soldiers, airmen and sailors, officers and enlisted to their deaths in Vietnam all over rotten political games. May he rot in hell. Don

Ditto on this !! May both of them rot in hell for their treasonous actions.