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Old 01-06-2013, 13:37   #251
DanaT
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
You acknowledge that I'm in a business where generating wealth creatively is a dirty word, yet you mock me for not knowing how to generate wealth.

OK. All I know is how to serve the public, including the poor. If that's not to your Teutonic taste, sorry.
Why dont you humor us and give your ideas that you would use to creatively generate wealth (I am asking about generating WEALTH not revenue).
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:37   #252
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
If my house catches fire I'm insured. No prob. Yeah my insurance is going to get more expensive but I'd rather pay it than get held hostage by a public union.

When your house catches on fire, or when someone is breaking into your house, or when someone is committing some crime against you, you NEVER have the obligation to call 9-1-1.

Can we understand that? Calling 9-1-1 is optional. You're all grown men. You all got guns. You all can take care of yourselves.
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:39   #253
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Quick. Tell me how I'm getting screwed with passionate well trained vollies vs never ending union tax increases and pension obligations.

We liked our vollie system just fine and had the coverage we could afford. Hell I can't remember the last time I saw a real house fire anyway.
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:42   #254
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
When your house catches on fire, or when someone is breaking into your house, or when someone is committing some crime against you, you NEVER have the obligation to call 9-1-1.

Can we understand that? Calling 9-1-1 is optional. You're all grown men. You all got guns. You all can take care of yourselves.
Why? We have a sheriff with a large well equipped force. We tax ourselves to fund his department (on the ballot). They serve at the pleasure of the sheriff. No union.

Why should I not use the services I pay for?
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:43   #255
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Besides as a gun owner you know that when seconds count the police are just minutes away.

They'll get here to take the report and haul out the bodies.
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:43   #256
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
We had the vollies to supplement but the union ruined that.

No worries. We're working on returning it to vollie status.
Based on my very limited experiences with volli Fis, they seen to be OK. But that could be a local thing.
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:45   #257
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Based on my very limited experiences with volli Fis, they seen to be OK. But that could be a local thing.
It's worked about 60 years here.

Used to be when the vollies asked for more money we gave it to them. Then they unionized and went from servant to master.
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:46   #258
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Besides as a gun owner you know that when seconds count the police are just minutes away.

They'll get here to take the report and haul out the bodies.
Then I guess any privatized police force can do that. And at a much better rate!

Good luck. (Two thumbs up).
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:46   #259
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What you people refuse to see, the laws can be easily changed. A few days ago, inheritance tax was 35% today it is 40%.

Well, by definition it is bankrupt. Creditor order of pay is determined in the bankruptcy hearings. Some creditors have higher standing than others. That said, they still only get what assets are left, even the employees. If there is nothing, no-one gets anythings.

It depends. Are you talking a corporation or sole proprietorship?

No, they have to show a good faith effort to be able to repay if they simply want to re-org. But there are different types of bankruptcy and you are mixing these.

It depends how creditors are secured and what the priority of security is.

You are trying to get me to say employees first which is sometimes the case and sometime not. However, if there is no money left, no-one gets anything.

I hear all the time how these people dont work for me. So obviously I dont it their job and by your logic, since they remind us all the time they dont work for me, I shouldnt have to pay them a dime, nickel or penny.
You get my point. Again, you're intentionally being daft. Creditor order of pay isn't set at the hearings, it's set in the bankruptcy code (i.e. LAW). At the hearings all they do is argue about who should get what percentage of what's left and why. Employees are never on the hook to pay their employer's expenses because they aren't the owners. If they're owners, then they're not really employees but owners and then they're liable for their share of the liabilities. You also know that I was referring to a re-org since I stated it in the post and again, you're ignoring the question since you know the answer supports my argument. If a business can't show they can pay future liabilities, the court won't allow a re-org and will push them into a full discharge. In personal bk they call it means testing. You're also ignoring the point that shareholders and owners come dead last when liquidating assets while wage claims have a much higher priority.

It's hard arguing with someone who is being intellectually dishonest. All these mental gymnastics are making my back hurt. ;P
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Old 01-06-2013, 13:51   #260
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Hell I can't remember the last time I saw a real house fire anyway.
When was the last time you made a life insurance claim? Do you still have it?

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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Besides as a gun owner you know that when seconds count the police are just minutes away.

They'll get here to take the report and haul out the bodies.
Or if you're being overwhelmed by a swarm mob of people taking turns beating you unconscious, I suppose you could just call your local gun store for reinforcements....

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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Then I guess any privatized police force can do that. And at a much better rate!

Good luck. (Two thumbs up).
Yeah, and he could try them in a private court that isn't funded by the legislature because the sheriff can't arrest them. Then hold them in a private jail that he bought and paid for. That's legal, right?
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:04   #261
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Why dont you humor us and give your ideas that you would use to creatively generate wealth (I am asking about generating WEALTH not revenue).
Why don't you first define to me to the differences between "wealth" and "revenue." Then I can give you some of my ideas.

In my mind, the more "revenue" I get, the more "wealth" I have. We own a building where we get monthly "revenues." But I feel no sense of "wealth." So clearly, that's not your definition.
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Last edited by Patchman; 01-07-2013 at 06:04..
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:06   #262
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Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Based on my very limited experiences with volli Fis, they seen to be OK. But that could be a local thing.
It's worked about 60 years here.

Used to be when the vollies asked for more money we gave it to them. Then they unionized and went from servant to master.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:07   #263
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Then I guess any privatized police force can do that. And at a much better rate!

Good luck. (Two thumbs up).
Why would that be necessary?
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:08   #264
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You get my point. Again, you're intentionally being daft. Creditor order of pay isn't set at the hearings, it's set in the bankruptcy code (i.e. LAW). At the hearings all they do is argue about who should get what percentage of what's left and why. Employees are never on the hook to pay their employer's expenses because they aren't the owners. If they're owners, then they're not really employees but owners and then they're liable for their share of the liabilities. You also know that I was referring to a re-org since I stated it in the post and again, you're ignoring the question since you know the answer supports my argument. If a business can't show they can pay future liabilities, the court won't allow a re-org and will push them into a full discharge. In personal bk they call it means testing. You're also ignoring the point that shareholders and owners come dead last when liquidating assets while wage claims have a much higher priority.

It's hard arguing with someone who is being intellectually dishonest. All these mental gymnastics are making my back hurt. ;P
I don't. Please explain it to me.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:09   #265
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Why don't you first define to me to the differences between "wealth" and "revenue." Then I can give you some of my ideas.

In my mind, the more "revenue" I get, the more "wealth" I have. We own a building with 22 apartments, where we get monthly "revenues." But I feel no sense of "wealth." So clearly, that's not your definition.
That is going to leave a mark...
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:13   #266
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When was the last time you made a life insurance claim? Do you still have it?



Or if you're being overwhelmed by a swarm mob of people taking turns beating you unconscious, I suppose you could just call your local gun store for reinforcements....



Yeah, and he could try them in a private court that isn't funded by the legislature because the sheriff can't arrest them. Then hold them in a private jail that he bought and paid for. That's legal, right?
Life insurance in full effect. My chances of having a deadly house fire are so astronomically low, using it for that isn't even a concern.

After Katrina down here nola had swarms of people raping and looting. Many NOPD officers skipped town, some of them in stolen Cadillacs. Some stayed and did some dastardly deeds themselves like looting, murdering. We had some come in from outside and they confiscated guns.

Are you saying that guaranteeing pension payouts at any cost will prevent that?

Oh, by the way. Their comms were down but guess who had functioning mobile command posts downtown? Private ambulance service. Acadian Anbumance.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:21   #267
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Why would that be necessary?
You mean the "Good Luck (Two thumbs up) remark?

IDK. Just your basic "good luck" and two thumbs up remark.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:22   #268
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You mean the "Good Luck (Two thumbs up) remark?

IDK. Just your basic "good luck" and two thumbs up remark.
No. Why would we want to privatize our well managed and affordable sheriffs department?
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:24   #269
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That is going to leave a mark...
Thanks for the heads up... I think...
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:26   #270
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
No. Why would we want to privatize our well managed and affordable sheriffs department?
Why do some people blame a public pension and not the mismanagement.

My gov pension is funded appropriately. There are even several fire agencies around me with 150%+ funded pensions.

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Old 01-06-2013, 14:27   #271
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No. Why would we want to privatize our well managed and affordable sheriffs department?
Oh, no reason. My mistake.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:37   #272
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Life insurance in full effect. My chances of having a deadly house fire are so astronomically low, using it for that isn't even a concern.

After Katrina down here nola had swarms of people raping and looting. Many NOPD officers skipped town, some of them in stolen Cadillacs. Some stayed and did some dastardly deeds themselves like looting, murdering. We had some come in from outside and they confiscated guns.

Are you saying that guaranteeing pension payouts at any cost will prevent that?

Oh, by the way. Their comms were down but guess who had functioning mobile command posts downtown? Private ambulance service. Acadian Anbumance.
My point about the life insurance is that you "hardly ever" use it, but you still have it. Just like car insurance and medical insurance. If you get in a crash you have it. If you get sick or injured, you have it. Same with a fire department and same with a police department.

It's pretty well agreed among the LE community that a) the gun confiscation thing was a huge mistake that shall not be repeated (and many states passed laws saying so) and b) the NOPD officers who left town were cowards and the ones who stayed and looted and were in dereliction of their duties are not representative of the majority of LEOs and deserve to be fired, arrested, imprisoned and treated like any other common criminal. That was also an aberration and not the norm in law enforcement, thankfully.

Pensions have nothing to do with that...the post I was responding to was advocating privatizing or creating volunteer public services like police and fire. The comm system problems was due to a combination of poor planning and lack of funding for redundant systems. Just like the interoperability problems experienced on 9-11-01, lessons have been learned and they're working on preventing that from happening again.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:38   #273
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Why do some people blame a public pension and not the mismanagement.

My gov pension is funded appropriately. There are even several fire agencies around me with 150%+ funded pensions.
Did the sheriff have to arrest the legislature to get that to happen?
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:50   #274
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Why do some people blame a public pension and not the mismanagement.

My gov pension is funded appropriately. There are even several fire agencies around me with 150%+ funded pensions.
Because they are envious/hate civil service pensions and want to see anything and everything possible done to screw us out of any and every thing possible.

But that's just my opinion.
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Old 01-06-2013, 14:54   #275
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Just look at Social Security - congress and the senate have raided to fund so many times -and never paid any back - that they have forgotten. They want to look perplexed and act like they can't figure out why it is going broke.
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