GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2013, 21:51   #901
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
"Those beliefs represent her religion." NOT "are her religion." There's a difference.

And you left out "beliefs dealing with issues of "ultimate concern" that for her occupy a "place parallel to that filled by . . . God in traditionally religious persons" and "We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion."

,
Like I said, Judges might not be what you want to count on.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 21:56   #902
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,327


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I've yet to see a tornado hitting anything and creating something as crude as a tricycle.

The atheists will claim that irreducible or specified complexity has been proven false, but really. Most don't realize the complexity in a single living cell.

Even the simple structures are more complex than most people imagine, the semipermeable membrane of a single cell contains active and passive transport mechanisms needed to maintain homeostasis, one small defect or flipped transport protein sequence, or receptor site, and it all fails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
The position that life just happened or was made as roughly equally possible???

Where is this imagined weaseling again?
LOL! Thanks Doc, I needed the laugh today! I'll just file this under the multiple other times you've been logically cornered in a debate, but were to obstinate to admit your error. You may never admit you are wrong, but other people are reading this forum and your petty evasions will not convince them.

__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:04   #903
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
LOL! Thanks Doc, I needed the laugh today! I'll just file this under the multiple other times you've been logically cornered in a debate, but were to obstinate to admit your error. You may never admit you are wrong, but other people are reading this forum and your petty evasions will not convince them.

I guess we will be laughing at each other, you out of your own ignorance, and me out of your ignorance too.

You take two possibilities about an event that happened hundreds of millions of years ago, and due to your own religious beliefs and inherent bias, decide that only one possibility is really possible.... and yet deny your faith and ardor.

You are amusing, I have to give you that.

You are so used to someone taking the opposite position as you, that you miss the bigger picture.

It's possible that your religious views are right, and roughly equally possible that they are wrong.

Either way, I'm cool whether you are right or wrong.

Are you cool both ways? Even if you are wrong?

Considering your "scourge" stance, I think you are deeply invested and biased in only one way.

I just noticed, don't get so upset about that.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-22-2013 at 22:06..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:14   #904
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,327


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I guess we will be laughing at each other, you out of your own ignorance, and me out of your ignorance too.
What someone else reading this thread will remember is that you never owned up to the opinion that you yourself stated.

Quote:
CavDoc, I have a genuine and sincere question for you. In regards to intelligent design, where do you stand on the concept of "irreducible complexity"?
which was answered with...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc
My stand on the issue is that none of us "know" for sure how what is came to be. But many have faith that they know.
which does not mesh with...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc
The atheists will claim that irreducible or specified complexity has been proven false, but really. Most don't realize the complexity in a single living cell.
__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 02-22-2013 at 22:20..
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:21   #905
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,534
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
Just to be able to live is a feat in itself, but then also to replicate. If evolution is true one might wonder how many times a living organism appeared only to perish because it had no method of replication.

The complexity starts at the chemical level. Amino acids that are inorganic in origin are left and right hand. Just to form a single protein takes a stack of left hand and only left hand amino acids assembled in the right sequence of the right type of essential amino acids. How many times in a row can you flip a coin and have it come up heads? A hundred? A million? A trillion? Just to get the correct left hand amino acids together for the first protein out of many would require better odds than that and then you would have to do the same with the rest of the proteins and assemble them into a simple cell etc. Not possible. There would surely be some right hand amino acids in the mix somewhere. The ability to reproduce would at least double the complexity.

All of this would have to occur many many times until the level of complexity was sufficient to be compatible with life.
2 points if you're attempting to enter a scientific discussion. (1) as a Young Earth Creationist you're entering the discussion with pretty much zero credibility given the magnitude of science that you must either reject or remain ignorant of -- physics/cosmology, chemistry, biology, botany, geology, paleontology and anthropology. So you had really better bring your A game, and (2) you should really look beyond outdated, refuted creationist arguments for your "facts".

Both L- and D- amino acids can be found in the same protein. Both L- and D- amino acids can randomly convert to the other form.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
This is much less likely to happen than a tornado hitting the shop and manufacturing and assembling a 787 complete with fuel in the tanks.
Clinging to Paley's watchmaker or Hoyle's junkyard 747 drives home the point that you don't understand the theory of evolution at even the most fundamental level.

-ArtificialGrape

'If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labelling our ignorance "God".'
-Jerry Coyne
ArtificialGrape is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:21   #906
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
What someone else reading this thread will remember is that you never owned up to the opinion that you yourself stated.



which was answered with...



which does not mesh with...
Only your own bias makes it impossible to understand. None of us "know" for sure how what is came to be. But many have faith that they know.

Creationists have faith that they know.

Atheists have faith that they know.

Atheists are deeply invested in their belief in abiogenesis.
Theists are deeply invested in their belief in intelligent design.

Agnostics realize it is likely one way or the other.

Evangelical atheists cannot tolerate any other faith other than their own.

It's so much more funny than you realize.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:28   #907
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,327


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Agnostics realize it is likely one way or the other.
But that's not what you said. In your zeal to disagree with atheists you actually errantly made an argument in favor of abiogensis and evolution and against intelligent design and presented it as if it were 180 degrees reversed. Your bias has now been documented and you will never be able to escape it. You are not the dispassionate third party you portray yourself to be. Instead, you are the adamant defender of a worldview that you adhere to with ardor and faith. A worldview every bit as similar as that which you accuse others of holding.

Good night, Doc. Thanks for the endless entertainment.

__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:39   #908
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
But that's not what you said. In your zeal to disagree with atheists you actually errantly made an argument in favor of abiogensis and evolution and against intelligent design and presented it as if it were 180 degrees reversed. Your bias has now been documented and you will never be able to escape it. You are not the dispassionate third party you portray yourself to be. Instead, you are the adamant defender of a worldview that you adhere to with ardor and faith. A worldview every bit as similar as that which you accuse others of holding.

Good night, Doc. Thanks for the endless entertainment.

Wow. You have bent reality around in such intricate ways.

ID and Abiogenesis are both possible. Neither one has been proven correct, they are just possibilities. Evolution is most likely correct, and a separate issue from how life began. Evolution is a description of what happened after life began.

Your misrepresentation of my views are deluded, but funny.

You have such a hard time admitting the validity of any opinion other than your own.

Why do you think that is? Is it fear that you might be wrong?
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:42   #909
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,327


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Wow. You have bent reality around in such intricate ways.

Your misrepresentation of my views are deluded, but funny.

You have such a hard time admitting the validity of any opinion other than your own.
I am entirely comfortable letting the disinterested third party read both my posts and yours and come to their own unbiased conclusion on the matter, aren't you?
__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 22:51   #910
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Sure, point out how you ignore pertinent portions of my posts, and clip them out before they take a look.

Find another agnostic, and let them decide who is more honest between the two of us.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-22-2013, 23:06   #911
Geko45
CLM Number 135
Smartass Pilot
 
Geko45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Short final
Posts: 13,327


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Sure, point out how you ignore pertinent portions of my posts, and clip them out before they take a look.
I respond to the relevant statements and ignore the double-speak. Though that was obvious.

Quote:
Find another agnostic, and let them decide who is more honest between the two of us.
Challenge accepted. Hopefully, a dispassionate observer will be along shortly to offer an opinion. Would the mean of theist and atheist positions (assuming equal input) suffice as an adequate proxy for you?
__________________
CavDoc: "If you have to pretend that a person with a different opinion has an opinion other than his own in order to score points in an argument, you've forfeited any points that you pretended to have."
CavDoc: "You consider yourself as non-religious, and I consider you a religious zealot."

JBnTX: "Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can worship any God, anyway you see fit or not even worship any God if you so choose. [...] Christianity should be the only religion protected under the constitution, and congress shall make no law restricting its practice."

Last edited by Geko45; 02-22-2013 at 23:13..
Geko45 is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 05:51   #912
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I've yet to see a tornado hitting anything and creating something as crude as a tricycle.
I've seen tornadoes go through a junkyard and create better arguments than this one though.

If you're going to base your argument on logical fallacies, at least go through the trouble to research them properly and get them right.

Can't even be bothered to get the logical fallacies correct!!!

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. SMH.

That's when you know the credibility has dipped below zero.

Does credibility go into negative numbers, or imaginary numbers at that point? I think we're in uncharted territory here.

I think we've all become somewhat accustomed to you misrepresenting dictionary definitions, and other people's arguments.

But misrepresenting logical fallacies is kind of mind boggling, a new low point. We're entering the Marianas Trench of debate tactics here.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 02-23-2013 at 06:59..
steveksux is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:12   #913
Vic Hays
Senior Member
 
Vic Hays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: My home is in heaven
Posts: 10,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
2 points if you're attempting to enter a scientific discussion. (1) as a Young Earth Creationist you're entering the discussion with pretty much zero credibility given the magnitude of science that you must either reject or remain ignorant of -- physics/cosmology, chemistry, biology, botany, geology, paleontology and anthropology. So you had really better bring your A game, and (2) you should really look beyond outdated, refuted creationist arguments for your "facts".

Both L- and D- amino acids can be found in the same protein. Both L- and D- amino acids can randomly convert to the other form.


Clinging to Paley's watchmaker or Hoyle's junkyard 747 drives home the point that you don't understand the theory of evolution at even the most fundamental level.

-ArtificialGrape

'If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labelling our ignorance "God".'
-Jerry Coyne
I am not rejecting true science. I am rejecting your rejection of the true complexity of even the most simple life forms.

I have had formal training in life sciences and I graduated with honors which means an A average. When you speak of our ignorance you hit the nail on the head. Rejecting the belief of God based on ignorance is, we'll, ignorance.
__________________
Vic Hays

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Vic Hays is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:52   #914
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
I respond to the relevant statements and ignore the double-speak. Though that was obvious.



Challenge accepted. Hopefully, a dispassionate observer will be along shortly to offer an opinion. Would the mean of theist and atheist positions (assuming equal input) suffice as an adequate proxy for you?
I'm sure your discomfort and resulting emotional responses to someone simply questioning the validity of your preferred genesis story will be noted by any honest evaluator.

Really, relax. The search for truth is aided by an open mind. Just consider that merely having every element present in a single cell in such a small space in the right quantity is bound to be a pretty rare anomoly on a planet devoid of life. Having them all at the correct temperature and organized in the right compounds is even a higher level anomoly. NaCl is good for mammalian life, in the right amount, elemental Na or Cl is detrimental to life. Then to form complex protein organelles in the cell wall, cytoplasm, and nuclear membrane and nucleus that all function in harmony in order to maintain homeostasis in an environment compatable with life, is even harder to imagine as a random event. Deprive a cell of compounds it needs to metabolize for energy, a hospitable pH and osmolarity, and it all stops rather suddenly on a cosmic time scale.

Makes you wonder, why abiogenesis doesn't occur in dead bodies, all the compounds are there. Or why not a little evolution? Some cells can move on their own, and are capable of anaerobic metabolism. Just the absence of a functioning heart shouldn't be enough to halt that evolution of something like a macrophage. Oh well, just a thought.

Considering all that doesn't make ID more likely. It just makes it as reasonably possible as abiogenesis. Don't let someone else pointing out how your dogmatic acceptance of abiogenesis as the only possible genesis story might have possibly led you to an incorrect conclusion or two get you down. We all have a choice to believe what we want to believe, and it's your right to choose too.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 02-23-2013 at 07:02..
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 06:55   #915
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
I am not rejecting true science. I am rejecting your rejection of the true complexity of even the most simple life forms.
He's not rejecting the complexity of life forms.

Quote:

I have had formal training in life sciences and I graduated with honors which means an A average. When you speak of our ignorance you hit the nail on the head.
That's kind of amazing. Being a young earth creationist, doesn't believe in evolution... I have to ask if you answered test questions based on science rather than scripture in order to get an A, do you consider that lying on the tests since the answers you provided you would consider false? I apologize in advance for how that came out, I couldn't think of any way to phrase that neutrally. My intent is not to accuse you of lying, but to explore how you handle the conflict between what they want to hear vs what you consider the truth.

Quote:
Rejecting the belief of God based on ignorance is, we'll, ignorance.
As long as Gods are based on ignorance, I will continue to reject the belief in them....

Randy
steveksux is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:18   #916
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Vic,

The guys standing on the other side of the coin from you keep throwing the charge of "Young Earth Creationist" out there.

Is that just BS, or do you actually believe that the Earth is roughly 6000 years old?

Just curious...
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:34   #917
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Like I said, Judges might not be what you want to count on.
Because they can differentiate between "equivalent to" and "is"?
ksg0245 is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:35   #918
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Only your own bias makes it impossible to understand. None of us "know" for sure how what is came to be. But many have faith that they know.

Creationists have faith that they know.

Atheists have faith that they know.

Atheists are deeply invested in their belief in abiogenesis.
Theists are deeply invested in their belief in intelligent design.

Agnostics realize it is likely one way or the other.

Evangelical atheists cannot tolerate any other faith other than their own.

It's so much more funny than you realize.
Wow! It's suddenly become true because you've repeated it so many times!
ksg0245 is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:46   #919
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
I've yet to see a tornado hitting anything and creating something as crude as a tricycle.
Can you identify a non-creationist who's made that argument?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
The atheists will claim that irreducible or specified complexity has been proven false, but really.
They claim it because it's true. Unless you can come up with an example that hasn't been refuted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Most don't realize the complexity in a single living cell.
And your evidence for that assertion is what, exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Just a simple graphic showing a simple version of the metabolic pathways needed for a single cell to survive.

http://web.expasy.org/pathways/

Religious Issues

Even the simple structures are more complex than most people imagine, the semipermeable membrane of a single cell contains active and passive transport mechanisms needed to maintain homeostasis, one small defect or flipped transport protein sequence, or receptor site, and it all fails.

Religious Issues

Now, that's not proof mind you, but is sure opens the possibility of a design, and a designer. Well, at least to those not deeply invested in there not being a designer it does.
Or those requiring evidence before accepting the assertion of a designer. Or those who understand complex things can develop from simple things.
ksg0245 is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 08:51   #920
ksg0245
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
The position that life just happened or was made as roughly equally possible???

Where is this imagined weaseling again?

Your faith is clearly demonstrated. It's cool, it's your right, even though you rebuke it.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding; are you saying that claiming roughly equal possibilities while denying all evidence on one side and refusing to present evidence for the other isn't weaseling?
ksg0245 is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 10:07   #921
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,534
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
I am not rejecting true science.
If you still adhere to a Young Earth -- please correct me if you don't and I'll apologize -- then you must reject core tenets of:
  • physics/cosmology -- Big Bang Theory / age of universe/earth
  • chemistry -- radiometric dating
  • biology -- evolution
  • botany -- evolution
  • geology -- plate tectonics, age of earth, refutation that a Great Flood ever occurred, and geologists were the earliest collectors of the fossil record
  • paleontology -- fossil evidence
  • anthropology -- human evolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
I am rejecting your rejection of the true complexity of even the most simple life forms.
Nowhere did I reject the complexity of life. I merely pointed out that your point regarding L- amino acids is not the death blow that some Creationist site may have led you to believe.

Complexity of life is evidence for life being complex -- nothing more.

The universe is very large and very old -- the improbable happens all the time.

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:27   #922
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
Can you identify a non-creationist who's made that argument?



They claim it because it's true. Unless you can come up with an example that hasn't been refuted?



And your evidence for that assertion is what, exactly?



Or those requiring evidence before accepting the assertion of a designer. Or those who understand complex things can develop from simple things.
There is not one single record of abiogenesis being observed. What evidence are you referring too? It seems to me your acceptance of the convenient theory requires a much lower hurdle for acceptance of evidence supporting abiogenesis.

I've not seen anything I would consider convincing evidence from either the ID or the Abiogenesis supporters. I see a lot of hope though.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:28   #923
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
Because they can differentiate between "equivalent to" and "is"?
Equivalent too. Religion = Atheism. I get it.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:58   #924
wingryder
Senior Member
 
wingryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 28.420, -81.171
Posts: 1,981
Why is it so hard for believers to fathom. Atheism is simple a lack of belief in god(s). PERIOD! Atheist are not organized, they don't "believe" in something else...

If you believe or don't fine. That is your thing, but please stop trying to label atheists as "believers"! That is simply NOT a valid statement.

"A"theism is the direct antithesis of theism. Period.

Atheism is no more a belief than Not stamp collecting is a hobby!

As an atheist, I personally have seen no evidence for any of the gods out there that are claimed to exist. Most of the arguments here about amino acids, abiogenesis etc, are in no way evidence that there is a god. The fact that I think that does NOT mean that I must "believe" in something else.

37 pages... WOW.
__________________
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
wingryder is offline  
Old 02-23-2013, 14:28   #925
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,099


Quote:
Originally Posted by wingryder View Post
Why is it so hard for believers to fathom. Atheism is simple a lack of belief in god(s). PERIOD! Atheist are not organized, they don't "believe" in something else...

If you believe or don't fine. That is your thing, but please stop trying to label atheists as "believers"! That is simply NOT a valid statement.

"A"theism is the direct antithesis of theism. Period.

Atheism is no more a belief than Not stamp collecting is a hobby!

As an atheist, I personally have seen no evidence for any of the gods out there that are claimed to exist. Most of the arguments here about amino acids, abiogenesis etc, are in no way evidence that there is a god. The fact that I think that does NOT mean that I must "believe" in something else.

37 pages... WOW.
Big bang, abiogenesis, evolution..... All clung to with ardor and faith in two out of the three.

I've not seen any evidence of any gods that have been claimed to exist either, but I do take into account ancient mans limitations, the limitations of translation and passing on accurate information.

It is easily just as possible that life on the planet was created as it is that it just happened. Both are rather fantastic claims, that with what we actually know, require a lot of faith to believe in one way or the other.

So answer me this, if it turns out that it is proven life could have been made on this planet by an intelligence, how does that fit with believing there is no deity? It's a bump in the road, that's all.

I'll bet you had no problem deciding what to have for lunch today without worrying over the answer to how life began on this planet.

Really, it's not a big issue in day to day life, and yet, some people proselytize religiously for atheism. Evangelical Atheists exist, in much larger numbers on line than in the general population.
Cavalry Doc is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 857
211 Members
646 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42