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Old 02-17-2013, 10:19   #1
railfancwb
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The Bible and Christianity - a question

Is Christianity better or worse off because someone(s) at some time divided the books of the Bible into chapters and verses?


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Old 02-17-2013, 10:54   #2
Vic Hays
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The Bible chapters and verses make it easier to locate texts. The verses and chapters often make unnatural divisions of the thoughts. It is just necessary to mentally make a habit of jumping over the chapters and verses to understand the thoughts.

So, half a dozen of one and half a dozen of the other.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:43   #3
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Originally Posted by railfancwb View Post
Is Christianity better or worse off because someone(s) at some time divided the books of the Bible into chapters and verses?
It makes the Bible easier to read and navigate.
Why would you think anything else?
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Old 02-17-2013, 14:17   #4
Vic Hays
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It makes the Bible easier to read and navigate.
Why would you think anything else?
The old style language use with the artificial divisions sometimes leads to misunderstandings and false beliefs.

It really does muffle the Word until you get used to jumping over the chapter and verse partitions.

An example could be found in Daniel dealing with the event just before the second coming.

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Daniel 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Daniel 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Daniel 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

So we can see that the chapter division artificially divides the conflict between the king of the North (perhaps the Papacy) with the king of the South ( possibly the new caliphate) and the conquest of the Jerusalem (the glorious holy mountain) the idea of the second coming.
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Old 02-18-2013, 16:34   #5
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Every single word in the Bible was written by a human being.

Until such time as "God" can be unequivocally proven to actually exist, I believe that every and any reference to the effect "and the Lord said to ______" was some human being who was lying for his own purposes (to claim authority over his fellow man) or insane ("hearing voices").

And that goes for any and every other so-called "holy scripture" as well. Such as the Quaran, for instance.

So it really does not matter how the Bible or any other "holy text" is structured.

The Quaran is "structured" "longest chapter to shortest chapter".

I guess whoever edited it thought that the more longwinded was the writer, the more important was the content.

Go Figure.

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Old 02-18-2013, 17:25   #6
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Every single word in the Bible was written by a human being.


Go Figure.
The prophets were inspired by God. In two places the Bible was written by other than man.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Daniel 5:5 In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.

Some rather interesting things were written before the fact by the prophets.

Daniel 2:28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
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Old 02-18-2013, 20:22   #7
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Every single word in the Bible was written by a human being.

Until such time as "God" can be unequivocally proven to actually exist, I believe that every and any reference to the effect "and the Lord said to ______" was some human being who was lying for his own purposes (to claim authority over his fellow man) or insane ("hearing voices").

And that goes for any and every other so-called "holy scripture" as well. Such as the Quaran, for instance.

So it really does not matter how the Bible or any other "holy text" is structured.

The Quaran is "structured" "longest chapter to shortest chapter".

I guess whoever edited it thought that the more longwinded was the writer, the more important was the content.

Go Figure.

And this is relevant to the discussion how? Is your name Shrek?
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Old 02-18-2013, 22:30   #8
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Is this a real question? The assignment of Chapter and Verse is certainly a manmade contriveance to make reading the texts easier. I haven't done the research, but it would be interesting to determine when these chapters and verses were first inserted. It appears from pictures available on the internet that the Gutenberg Bible of the
1450's was not broken down into chapter and verse, so I assume it came in a later version.
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Old 02-19-2013, 13:15   #9
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And this is relevant to the discussion how? Is your name Shrek?
It is relevent in that since the supernatural inspiration allegedly behind it's multi-authorship cannot be proven, the content of it is nothing more than a variety of men's notions as to what morality should be.

Thus, structure is irrelevent.

It is no better or worse, than any other work of fiction based upon historical events.

We can take it (or leave it) for whatever valuable morality or insights we can derive from it, so long as we ignore any supernatural basis for it.
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:30   #10
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Originally Posted by Vic Hays View Post
The Bible chapters and verses make it easier to locate texts. The verses and chapters often make unnatural divisions of the thoughts. It is just necessary to mentally make a habit of jumping over the chapters and verses to understand the thoughts.

So, half a dozen of one and half a dozen of the other.
I echo Vic's comments here but I would add that overall it is a benefit.
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Old 02-19-2013, 14:32   #11
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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
It is relevent in that since the supernatural inspiration allegedly behind it's multi-authorship cannot be proven, the content of it is nothing more than a variety of men's notions as to what morality should be.

Thus, structure is irrelevent.

It is no better or worse, than any other work of fiction based upon historical events.

We can take it (or leave it) for whatever valuable morality or insights we can derive from it, so long as we ignore any supernatural basis for it.

Speaking of irrelevant, you are
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Old 02-23-2013, 13:13   #12
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Speaking of irrelevant, you are
Only because the topic itself is irrelevant, because all organized religion is irrelevant.
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Old 02-23-2013, 13:41   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roering View Post
you are
I agree that it was off topic in that the authorship / inspiration / divinty of the Bible has no bearing on the OP question of "Is Christianity better or worse off...".

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Originally Posted by Comrade Bork View Post
Only because the topic itself is irrelevant, because all organized religion is irrelevant.
Christianity and other religions certainly have a significant impact in the US and across much of the West; Islam has an impact across much of the world. Regardless of of being man-made, I would not argue that they are irrelevant.

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Old 02-23-2013, 15:52   #14
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I know the original scrolls did not have any kind of chapter divisions. The current method of chapter/verse division definitely aids in study and teaching.
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Old 02-26-2013, 20:22   #15
Comrade Bork
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I know the original scrolls did not have any kind of chapter divisions. The current method of chapter/verse division definitely aids in study and teaching.
Too bad it is not worth studying nor inflicting on others.
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Old 02-26-2013, 21:15   #16
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I believe Christianity is worse off for dividing it into verses because it makes it easier for people to cut and stitch the Bible and create any belief they want rather than reading each book as a whole the way the authors intended it. That makes it easier to make God in one's own image. That's why church dogma and the Bible are only marginally related. That's why there are so many churches and dogmas. I believe Christianity is worse off for everyone being able to read the Bible for themselves and make it say whatever they want it to.
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