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Old 12-29-2012, 07:49   #1
Mr981
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Neighbor buys guns for upstate NY firemen shooter

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/29...est=latestnews

The shooter was a convicted felon and was prohibited from buying owning a firearm. What's the penalty for the person buying the gun for the shooter?
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:04   #2
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I guess my question is not whether he should be able to buy a gun or what punishment should be accorded to Ms Nguyen, but rather why would a man who bludgeoned his grandmother to death ever be released from prison. If he's sane he should be put to death, and if not responsible for his actions he should be locked up forever. I don't think "homicidal maniac" is something we can cure, and anyone who wants to let guys like this out should put their lives and the lives of their loved ones up as a bond. I doubt their faith in him would go that far.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:36   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr981 View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/29...est=latestnews

The shooter was a convicted felon and was prohibited from buying owning a firearm. What's the penalty for the person buying the gun for the shooter?
Up to 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...-firearms.html Potential sentences are listed in the bottom paragraph of the letter. With 3 murders and arson connected to this particular straw purchase Miss Nguyen should be nervous about now.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:44   #4
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Looks like the information on that yellow (now white) form sticks around. We already have de-facto gun registration.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:47   #5
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Originally Posted by OrangePwr9 View Post
Looks like the information on that yellow (now white) form sticks around. We already have de-facto gun registration.
I didn't think anyone ever said that 4473s weren't forever. Or am I missing something?
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:26   #6
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[sarcasm] If the lady had been a Glocktalk regular, she would have known enough to claim the weapons had been lost in her freak Long Island Sound boating accident. An unreported theft of recently purchased firearms is a clear indication of inept thinking. [/sarcasm]
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:31   #7
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I guess my question is not whether he should be able to buy a gun or what punishment should be accorded to Ms Nguyen, but rather why would a man who bludgeoned his grandmother to death ever be released from prison. If he's sane he should be put to death, and if not responsible for his actions he should be locked up forever. I don't think "homicidal maniac" is something we can cure, and anyone who wants to let guys like this out should put their lives and the lives of their loved ones up as a bond. I doubt their faith in him would go that far.
That is a huge problem we have in this country that the media and President don't seem to be talking about. Repeat violent offenders. Probably could reduce our murder rate in half right there
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:44   #8
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If I was the DA in that jurisdiction, I would charge her with capital murder and go for the death penalty. I believe I would win.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:03   #9
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If I was the DA in that jurisdiction, I would charge her with capital murder and go for the death penalty. I believe I would win.
I am not sure you would win. But an awful good case would be made and you would be right. Maybe be able to help change the laws.


This is a law that should be strengthened and enforced. There should be very severe consequences for buying guns for a person that is not allowed to have them. That would be a good step.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:06   #10
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I didn't think anyone ever said that 4473s weren't forever. Or am I missing something?
I think it depends on what state you're in. I think I've heard some states say they have to be destroyed in 30 days, and other states say you're required to keep them for 10 years. But I could be wrong, my memory is notoriously crappy.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:08   #11
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If I was the DA in that jurisdiction, I would charge her with capital murder and go for the death penalty. I believe I would win.
That sounds like a serious stretch to me jtull. If the jury believes that she admitted buying the guns for the Spengler I can see the straw purchase and lying to investigators charges sticking. Would the lying to investigators be considered obstruction of justice?
I can see a judge sentencing her to the max given the outcome of her straw sale but murder 1 seems unlikely to me especially given the 2.5 year lapse between the straw sale and the murders/arson.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:36   #12
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That sounds like a serious stretch to me jtull. If the jury believes that she admitted buying the guns for the Spengler I can see the straw purchase and lying to investigators charges sticking. Would the lying to investigators be considered obstruction of justice?
I can see a judge sentencing her to the max given the outcome of her straw sale but murder 1 seems unlikely to me especially given the 2.5 year lapse between the straw sale and the murders/arson.
for her to be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, they would need more than a straw purchase and lie on a 4473.


The would easily win for the following;

However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n), or (x)


if the can show she knew he was prohibited.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:36   #13
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If you ask me, she should be charged as an accessory to premeditated murder. The penalty in NY is the same as if she had set the fire and pulled the trigger herself. She is responsible for aiding and abetting a known criminal and should be held accountable.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:48   #14
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http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/naza...ces_emily.html

This woman got 7 months for buying a gun used to kill 1 state trooper and wound another, while in the process of a kidnapping. Total scam job, why even have laws if they have such a weak punishment. They should share the sentence of the crime committed with the weapon they purchased.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:14   #15
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The shooter was a convicted felon and was prohibited from buying owning a firearm. What's the penalty for the person buying the gun for the shooter?
Go directly to jail...
Do not pass go...
Do not collect $200....

Oh wait she's female.

There was a chick involved in a similar way at Columbine. LEO didn't press the issue.

Normally she could wiggle her backside and get off easy. In the post Sandy Hook, era this is a bit more difficult to accomplish.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:18   #16
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I didn't think anyone ever said that 4473s weren't forever. Or am I missing something?
4473's are a Federal Issue (ATF). They require them to be maintained for 25 years.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:27   #17
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Originally Posted by jtull7 View Post
If I was the DA in that jurisdiction, I would charge her with capital murder and go for the death penalty. I believe I would win.
Only if you can prove that the guns killed the firemen, and not the shooter.

I'd think that the straw purchase, and maybe some conspiracy charges would be in order, especially if she was paid to buy the guns for him knowing he was not able to buy them himself.


I'm not a lawyer, and I don't pretend to be an expert in the law, but murder seems a bit unfair here.
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:05   #18
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What if someone else (who didn't know him) had sold him the guns in a legal FTF private sale?

Let's say the seller asked if there was any reason the buyer shouldn't be allowed to buy the guns, and he lied to the seller.

(Not sure NY's laws on this, but let's assume such sales are legal, as they are in many states.)

Would you still want the seller to be held legally accountable? Or did my hypothetical seller do everything that could be reasonably be done to have not sold guns to a felon?
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:17   #19
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But that's not what we're speaking of here. In this case she lied about the guns being stolen, and it looks like she knew he was a wack job. That's why she went to the police when she heard what happened.

In your scenario if the seller did everything according to the law then they would be ok. Two completely different situations.
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:27   #20
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What if someone else (who didn't know him) had sold him the guns in a legal FTF private sale?

Let's say the seller asked if there was any reason the buyer shouldn't be allowed to buy the guns, and he lied to the seller.

(Not sure NY's laws on this, but let's assume such sales are legal, as they are in many states.)

Would you still want the seller to be held legally accountable? Or did my hypothetical seller do everything that could be reasonably be done to have not sold guns to a felon?
Not unless it could be reasonably established that the seller had reason to now of Spengler's back ground. Dawn Nguyen willingly lied to get the guns for Spengler. It apparently either did not occur to her that bad could come of it or she just did not care. I suspect she cares right about now. It certainly won't break my heart if she gets max consecutive penalties for her contribution to this murder and arson scheme.
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:50   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr981 View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/29...est=latestnews

The shooter was a convicted felon and was prohibited from buying owning a firearm. What's the penalty for the person buying the gun for the shooter?
5 years in prison, I believe.
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Old 12-29-2012, 14:03   #22
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If I was the DA in that jurisdiction, I would charge her with capital murder and go for the death penalty. I believe I would win.
We don't know that she was aware of what his final intent was. She's culpable to be sure, but the worst I would do was 3 consecutive 5 yr terms for the straw purchases. Its possible she felt sorry for him and that he was just gonna go sport shooting.

If she knew and /or participated, then conspiracy to commit capital murder x (x) number of counts.
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Old 12-29-2012, 15:25   #23
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We don't know that she was aware of what his final intent was. She's culpable to be sure, but the worst I would do was 3 consecutive 5 yr terms for the straw purchases. Its possible she felt sorry for him and that he was just gonna go sport shooting.

If she knew and /or participated, then conspiracy to commit capital murder x (x) number of counts.
God forbid if he killed your wife or kids you would say life. I think if you purchase a handgun for someone else you should be responsible for whatever crime they commit. Of course I'm talking straw purchase and not buying your dad a Christmas present.
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Old 12-29-2012, 15:36   #24
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I doubt anyone with any common sense would buy guns for a man who beat his grandmother to death with a hammer. She deserves more than what she'll probably get.
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Old 12-29-2012, 17:10   #25
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
I guess my question is not whether he should be able to buy a gun or what punishment should be accorded to Ms Nguyen, but rather why would a man who bludgeoned his grandmother to death ever be released from prison. If he's sane he should be put to death, and if not responsible for his actions he should be locked up forever. I don't think "homicidal maniac" is something we can cure, and anyone who wants to let guys like this out should put their lives and the lives of their loved ones up as a bond. I doubt their faith in him would go that far.
Why was he ever sent to prison to start with and not hung on the court house lawn until DEAD!.
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