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Old 12-30-2012, 15:23   #426
G19G20
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Any of the posters on this thread that think that "travel is a right, but the use of a car to do it is subject to gov't whim" is accurate, then you must also think that "bearing arms is a right, but the use of ARs is subject to gov't whim" and therefore those posters must support an AWB.

The principle is IDENTICAL.

You can't pick and choose which cases you agree with when it comes to rights. Either you have complete right or no right.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:33   #427
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So if you do not have a right to yell fire in a crowded theatre when there is no fire, that means you have no right to freedom of speech?
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:35   #428
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
Any of the posters on this thread that think that "travel is a right, but the use of a car to do it is subject to gov't whim" is accurate, then you must also think that "bearing arms is a right, but the use of ARs is subject to gov't whim" and therefore those posters must support an AWB.

The principle is IDENTICAL.

You can't pick and choose which cases you agree with when it comes to rights. Either you have complete right or no right.
If an AWB passes and gets challenged to the Supreme Court, they would make the choice as to whether it's the same thing or not.

Disagreeing with something doesn't make it less legal, and agreeing that it's legal doesn't mean you accept it, either. That's far too simplistic of a way to look at it.

When seatbelt laws were passed here in IL, a LOT of people didn't like it. They either buckled up or got (and continue to get) tickets. Buckling up without raising holy hell doesn't mean everyone agreed with it, it just means it was the law.

If a new AWB passed, I would abide by the law until it was either changed or overturned by the court. For the same reason I don't carry a firearm here in IL right now - I'm a law-abiding citizen. That doesn't mean I'm not fighting against it tooth and nail.

Your assertion is absurd.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:36   #429
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You misunderstand, much like Dana.


Travel, is a right.

Operation is a privilege.


The govt can't tell you that you can't move across the country.

The govt can however, tell you that you have to meet certain criteria to drive/fly/sail across the country.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:43   #430
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You misunderstand, much like Dana.

Travel, is a right.

Operation is a privilege.

The govt can't tell you that you can't move across the country.

The govt can however, tell you that you have to meet certain criteria to drive/fly/sail across the country.
So the gov't can't tell you that you can't bear arms, but it can tell you which arms you can't bear. Do you agree with that statement?

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Your assertion is absurd.
No, friend. Your assertion that there are degrees of rights is absurd. Rights are simplistic. Either you have a right or you don't.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:44   #431
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
Any of the posters on this thread that think that "travel is a right, but the use of a car to do it is subject to gov't whim" is accurate, then you must also think that "bearing arms is a right, but the use of ARs is subject to gov't whim" and therefore those posters must support an AWB.

The principle is IDENTICAL.

You can't pick and choose which cases you agree with when it comes to rights. Either you have complete right or no right.
You can walk your happy butt wherever you like.


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Old 12-30-2012, 15:46   #432
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:46   #433
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So the gov't can't tell you that you can't bear arms, but it can tell you which arms you can't bear. Do you agree with that statement?
That is well-established law.



The only thing up for debate is the level of restriction, but telling you what you CAN'T have is well-proven case-law.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:48   #434
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You can walk your happy butt wherever you like.

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Address my post.

Sure, I can walk wherever I like but the gov't can dictate how I "travel"? So then surely you agree that the gov't can dictate how I bear arms? Correct?
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:49   #435
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But remember, the thread started as the justification was not giving an officer evidence to use against you..
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Now, I'm against checkpoints in general. By my luck of the draw I've never met an honest cop at any of them. Like 'em or not sometimes you have to tip your hat.

I really dig where refusing to take a breathalyzer equals enough probable cause for a judge to sign a warrant giving them permission to take your blood by force. That is pimp.
Remember..this ^ was the starting point??
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The Louisiana ACLU opposes the no-refusal policy.

"Of course, everybody has an obligation not to drive impaired and potentially harm someone else," said LA ACLU Executive Director Marjorie Esman. "The question is whether this is an appropriate use of governmental power to take people's blood without their consent."
Why doesn't the ACLU file for an injunction to stop the program?
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:51   #436
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That is well-established law.



The only thing up for debate is the level of restriction, but telling you what you CAN'T have is well-proven case-law.
I didn't ask what the law says. I asked what YOU think.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, Im trying to get you all to say that you basically support rights that you like, while supporting restricting rights you don't like. That would make you a hypocrite and contradicting yourself. You either have a right or you don't. There are no degrees of rights, particularly those that are inalienable and given by the Creator.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:51   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
Address my post.

Sure, I can walk wherever I like but the gov't can dictate how I "travel"? So then surely you agree that the gov't can dictate how I bear arms? Correct?
Of course they can. There is not one single right not subject to certain restrictions.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-30-2012 at 15:57..
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:53   #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G19G20
No, friend. Your assertion that there are degrees of rights is absurd. Rights are simplistic. Either you have a right or you don't.
Again, you don't understand the difference between a right, and a privilege.



Operating, as proven by case law, is a privilege. It belongs to a specific group of people, and not everyone.


But simply because you can't operate it, doesn't mean you can't travel.

I can't fly a plane ( legally) but I can travel in one.

Understand the difference?
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:56   #439
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Of course they can. There is not one single right no subject to restriction.
Congratulations on being successfully brainwashed by gov't and media to believe that your inalienable rights granted by the Creator are subject to impingment by mere mortal men. Sold to you.
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Old 12-30-2012, 15:56   #440
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
Address my post.

Sure, I can walk wherever I like but the gov't can dictate how I "travel"? So then surely you agree that the gov't can dictate how I bear arms? Correct?
There is the Feinstein method:

The Okie Corral
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:03   #441
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..



No, friend. Your assertion that there are degrees of rights is absurd. Rights are simplistic. Either you have a right or you don't.
What happens when your right of freedom of speech causes me to loose sleep because you are exercising your right of freedom of speech at 3 am outside my window?


What happens when you use your freedom of religion to sacrifice a chicken at the cemetary where I have a relative buried?


Do you have a right to drive while you are intoxicated on the same road that I am driving on with my family?

What happens when you right interferes with my right? Whose right wins?
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:05   #442
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Address my post.

Sure, I can walk wherever I like but the gov't can dictate how I "travel"? So then surely you agree that the gov't can dictate how I bear arms? Correct?
You can travel by car, boat, plane or train however you like...as a passenger

If you want to drive (operate) the mode of transportation, you need the required license/certification/registration for whatever mode of transportation you're operating

Unless you like to travel on horseback
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:07   #443
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So the gov't can't tell you that you can't bear arms, but it can tell you which arms you can't bear. Do you agree with that?.

NFA laws, 1934/86 seem to prove that point.


Are you arguing that the supreme court is wrong in their rulings?
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:08   #444
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Well...Why doesn't the ACLU file for an injunction to stop the program?
Maybe they are?

Wouldnt the ACLU be a better person to ask than me? I am not part of the ACLU. The ACLU does some good things, but for being Civil Liberties defenders, they seem (just like many GTers) to pick and choose which ones they like.
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:10   #445
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Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
You can travel by car, boat, plane or train however you like...as a passenger

If you want to drive (operate) the mode of transportation, you need the required license/certification/registration for whatever mode of transportation you're operating

Unless you like to travel on horseback
Show where the court rulings say "as a passenger" or that a horse is specifically protected.

Why do you say a horse? Using this logic the 2A only applies to black powder weapons. Of course that version doesnt fit a gun forum agenda...
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:11   #446
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Originally Posted by G19G20 View Post
Any of the posters on this thread that think that "travel is a right, but the use of a car to do it is subject to gov't whim" is accurate, then you must also think that "bearing arms is a right, but the use of ARs is subject to gov't whim" and therefore those posters must support an AWB.

The principle is IDENTICAL.

You can't pick and choose which cases you agree with when it comes to rights. Either you have complete right or no right.
They cannot see this because it doesnt fit their day job description.
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:13   #447
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I didn't ask what the law says. I asked what YOU think.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, Im trying to get you all to say that you basically support rights that you like, while supporting restricting rights you don't like. That would make you a hypocrite and contradicting yourself. You either have a right or you don't. There are no degrees of rights, particularly those that are inalienable and given by the Creator.
You have no idea what you're talking about. There are no absolute rights - none, at all. EVERY right in the US Constitution - written by men, not delivered by divine providence - has restrictions that have been supported by the Constitutionally-appointed authorities on those rights, the US Supreme Court.

YOU are insisting on things that don't exist. Rights are not absolute. It's not a binary system. YOU have the right to keep and bear arms, but you don't have a right to carry them in my house if I decide, because then your right would be infringing on mine.

That very simple example proves the point that no right is absolute.

You can live your life in black and white if you'd like, but the reality is just NOT that simple, no matter how loud you scream that it should be.

(Scream all you like before 10pm, BTW. That's your right. After 10pm, it's disturbing the peace)
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:18   #448
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Show where the court rulings say "as a passenger" or that a horse is specifically protected.

Why do you say a horse? Using this logic the 2A only applies to black powder weapons. Of course that version doesnt fit a gun forum agenda...


Post 165 has specific case examples that says exactly what your asking for.
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:20   #449
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Congratulations on being successfully brainwashed by gov't and media to believe that your inalienable rights granted by the Creator are subject to impingment by mere mortal men. Sold to you.

Brainwashed? I think maybe you live in a world of revisionist history.

The BOR was never absolute, it was intended from day 1 to apply with certain reasonable restrictions, qualifications which are all subject to interpretation by the courts on its application. There was debate, court challenges and case law created in matters relating to the BOR while the same Founding Fathers who crafted the document were still in power. They did not say "the document is absolute", they allowed our process to work and the judicial branch to do its job.

It is just a fact of what we have....not misguided emotion.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-30-2012 at 16:45..
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:21   #450
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You can travel by car, boat, plane or train however you like...as a passenger

If you want to drive (operate) the mode of transportation, you need the required license/certification/registration for whatever mode of transportation you're operating

Unless you like to travel on horseback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYjzlz_oFs8

I suspect, where you ride it might be important too.
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