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Old 12-30-2012, 09:09   #376
DanaT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
[/I]Dana,

It's okay, you can man up and admit:


  • You were wrong
  • You have now learned (or at least been provided with a learning opportunity).
How about you admit you talk out your posterior what occurs in MN isnt the law of the land.

C.R.S. 42-4-103 (2012)

42-4-103. Scope and effect of article - exceptions to provisions


(1) This article constitutes the uniform traffic code throughout the state and in all political subdivisions and municipalities therein.


ETA:

42-4-112. Noninterference with the rights of owners of realty


Subject to the exception provided in section 42-4-103 (2), nothing in this article shall be construed to prevent the owner of real property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel by permission of the owner and not as matter of right from prohibiting such use, or from requiring other or different or additional conditions than those specified in this article, or from otherwise regulating such use as may seem best to such owner.


<<<Some states actually put individual rights in high regard>>>>

(2) The provisions of this article relating to the operation of vehicles and the movement of pedestrians refer exclusively to the use of streets and highways except:

(a) Where a different place is specifically referred to in a given section;

(b) For provisions of sections 42-2-128, 42-4-1301 to 42-4-1303, 42-4-1401, 42-4-1402, and 42-4-1413 and part 16 of this article which shall apply upon streets and highways and elsewhere throughout the state.


ANNOTATION

Statutes and rules of the road are designed to govern traffic upon highways, that are prepared for use as such, for public convenience and safety, and are applicable only to permanent lines of travel. They have no application to parts of a road under construction, where changing conditions would not permit orderly travel under established rules. Curtis v. Lawley, 140 Colo. 476, 346 P.2d 579 (1959).

This section does not determine scope of implied consent law; its provisions apply only when an operator is driving on a public highway. State, Motor Vehicle Div. v. Dayhoff, 199 Colo. 363, 609 P.2d 119 (1980).

C.R.S. 42-2-101 (2012)

42-2-101. Licenses for drivers required



(1) Except as otherwise provided in part 4 of this article for commercial drivers, no person shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway in this state unless such person has been issued a currently valid driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit by the department under this article.

(2) No person shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway in this state if such person's driver's or minor driver's license has been expired for one year or less and such person has not been issued another such license by the department or by another state or country subsequent to such expiration.

(3) No person shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway in this state unless such person has in his or her immediate possession a current driver's or minor driver's license or an instruction permit issued by the department under this article.


42-2-102. Persons exempt from license

(1) The following persons need not obtain a Colorado driver's license:
serving in the armed forces of the United States;

(b) Any person who temporarily drives or operates any road machine, farm tractor, or other implement of husbandry on a highway;

<<<<< a drivers license is not even required to drive farm equipment on highways - how about that big guy??>>>>>

We should probably define for you what a highway is


C.R.S. 42-1-102 (2012)

43) "Highway" means the entire width between the boundary lines of every way publicly maintained when any part thereof is open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel or the entire width of every way declared to be a public highway by any law of this state.
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Last edited by DanaT; 12-30-2012 at 09:16..
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:26   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
That is wrong. It should not be. Its an over reach of the state. Any officer who would do that should be ashamed.

Out of curiosity if the traffic laws were not enforced in parking lots, what would happen when there was a crash? How about a serious crash with injuries? Is it ok for impaired, or unlicensed, or uninsured drivers to drive there? What about eight year olds - should they be allowed to drive in the mall parking lot?

How about laws governing armed robbery? Should they only apply on public property - is it ok for someone to stab grandma with a knife as she walks toward the grocery store as long as she is in the parking lot and not on the street or sidewalk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You keep talking about what you dont know about. Take a simple walk up to the City Management office and look at the agreements with these parking lots. They have put in place agreements with the city govts as part of the development deals to treat them as public areas. Many times these lots are "leased" to the cities to allow this for a nominal amount (for example $1 a year).

Go read the land development agreements, or are those too big of contracts for you to understands. You know the agreements that give tax breaks, etc.
Perhaps there, there are agreements between a government body and every single parking lot owner regardless of the size of the parking lot. But here the issue is handed by statute: 316.072 Obedience to and effect of traffic laws.—
(1) PROVISIONS OF CHAPTER REFERRING TO VEHICLES UPON THE HIGHWAYS.—The provisions of this chapter shall apply to the operation of vehicles and bicycles and the movement of pedestrians upon all state-maintained highways, county-maintained highways, and municipal streets and alleys and wherever vehicles have the right to travel.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/316.072

Who knows - maybe there are similar statutes in some other states.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:34   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You cant read once again. Travel.Can you read "travel"?

Shall I post it again?

As an example, I can TRAVEL on my property without having any drivers license. Even more, I can travel with a vehicle that is not "approved" or licensed. Read the provided statutes, again. You CAN be charged with driving offenses ON YOUR PROPERTY.

  • Driving While Intoxicated (or just in physical control of a motor vehicle).
  • Careless/Reckless driving
There's more, but these two alone poke holes in your claims.

Now to continue showing you ignorance, if you are on a FEDERAL road, since they are not controlled or maintained by the state, they do not fall under STATE rules of drivers licenses. That doesn't happen you say? Go on to an FR (forest road). There is NO licensing requirements to TRAVEL on them or even OPERATE a motor vehicle on them. - READ the statutes I provided, you can be charged for offenses while NOT ON A ROAD, much less another type of road.

So, once again, there is a RIGHT to travel. It is just the states have gotten through their courts that they can regulate travel on THEIR roads. However, as soon as it is not "their" roads, they cannot violate the right to travel.

But I will tell you what big guy. Go give someone a ticket on a FR for driving an unlicensed vehicle and see if it holds up.

Oh, yes, and lets talk about why many racing parts are sold. They get around the emission/DOT laws because they are for "off-highway" use. The govt cant regulate that (at this time) -SPARK ARRESTER

Check out the requirements to travel in some Parks/Forests by ATV or ATV type vehicle. Removing the stock exhaust and putting on a pipe w/o an arrester is prohibited.

In MN, snowmobiles can't have other than OEM pipes to be out and about.
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Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:50   #379
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
That is wrong. It should not be. Its an over reach of the state. Any officer who would do that should be ashamed.
certifiedfunds: "any officer who enforces a law I disagree with is bad and should be ashamed. Any officer who fails to enforce a law I want enforced should be ashamed."

In short, certifiedfunds is that very typical private citizen who believes the world should run according to whatever he wants at the moment and the police are evil because they do what the elected government says, instead of what he says. I wish those people were a minority, but they probably aren't.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:07   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You cant read once again. Travel.Can you read "travel"?

Shall I post it again?

As an example, I can TRAVEL on my property without having any drivers license. Even more, I can travel with a vehicle that is not "approved" or licensed.

Now to continue showing you ignorance, if you are on a FEDERAL road, since they are not controlled or maintained by the state, they do not fall under STATE rules of drivers licenses. That doesn't happen you say? Go on to an FR (forest road). There is NO licensing requirements to TRAVEL on them or even OPERATE a motor vehicle on them.

So, once again, there is a RIGHT to travel. It is just the states have gotten through their courts that they can regulate travel on THEIR roads. However, as soon as it is not "their" roads, they cannot violate the right to travel.

But I will tell you what big guy. Go give someone a ticket on a FR for driving an unlicensed vehicle and see if it holds up.

Oh, yes, and lets talk about why many racing parts are sold. They get around the emission/DOT laws because they are for "off-highway" use. The govt cant regulate that (at this time)
LOL....why are you changing the goal posts? You just spent 10 pages arguing that driving a car on a public roadway was an absolute right. That discussion was spurred because of your outrage that local LE is legally justified in setting up a check point on such roads. You claimed the check points were improper because of a Constitutionally protected right to travel.


Now that I have proven that is incorrect with loads of crystal clear case law you use your normal condescending tone to tell me you never referred to state governed roadways, just private property and Fed forest service roads? That will get you far in you "travels".

Last edited by ray9898; 12-30-2012 at 15:39..
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:13   #381
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I've arrested people for dus on private property and state parks roads.

Never had an issue.


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Old 12-30-2012, 10:19   #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Go on to an FR (forest road). There is NO licensing requirements to TRAVEL on them or even OPERATE a motor vehicle on them.

So, once again, there is a RIGHT to travel. It is just the states have gotten through their courts that they can regulate travel on THEIR roads. However, as soon as it is not "their" roads, they cannot violate the right to travel.

But I will tell you what big guy. Go give someone a ticket on a FR for driving an unlicensed vehicle and see if it holds up.
Absolutely false. I knew you would dispute it so this is directly from the Feds Idaho office. So who is ignorant?

National Forrest regulations

Quote:

In the past five years, Idaho's growing population has resulted in a huge increase in the number of Off-Highway Vehicles (OHV) registered and/or used on public lands in Idaho. Many OHV users are confused about the requirements for registration, equipment, and where they can legally ride. Some of this confusion has resulted in illegal uses of OHV's especially on Forest Service and BLM roads within Idaho. This pamphlet is an attempt by the agencies who regulate and enforce the OHV laws in Idaho to answer your questions.

WHAT IS AN OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE?

Any dune buggie, three or four wheel all terrain vehicle (ATV), and off-road motorcycle/motorbikes are considered off-highway vehicles.

DO TRAFFIC LAWS APPLY TO MY OHV?

Yes, Idaho Traffic Law applies to all motor vehicles. ATV's and motorcycles of all types are included under Idaho Traffic Law as motor vehicles and fall under Idaho Traffic Law when operating on a highway.

WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS TO RIDE OHV's?

Riding requirements for OHV's can be broken down into these categories: 1. on highway, 2. unpaved roads on state or federal public lands which is not part of a highway system of the state or county, highway district or city, and 3. off highway.

1. ON HIGHWAY OR PAVED ROAD REQUIREMENTS: The following are only some of the requirements to operate an OHV on roads maintained for vehicular traffic including many Forest Service and BLM roads.
Valid Driver's License, IC-49-301
Valid registration as a motor vehicle, IC 49-401A IC 49-402 (4)
Display of valid license plate, IC 49-428
Valid Liability Insurance, IC 49-1229
Carry Proof of Liability Insurance in vehicle, IC 49-1232

Brake Light, IC 49-908 (1)
Headlight after dark/poor visibility, IC 49-903, 49-905 (2)
Taillight after dark/poor visibility, IC 49-903, 49-906
Helmet under age 18, IC 49-666
Muffler unaltered and in good working condition, IC 49-937
Mirror showing roadway 200 feet behind vehicle, IC 49-940
Horn must be audible at 200 feet, IC 49-956

For highway operation, motorbikes and ATV's must register as a motor vehicle and purchase a license plate, per Idaho Code 49-402. Also, a motorcycle endorsement is required when operating a motorbike on highways per Idaho Code 49-304.

You can register for highway use with the Department of Motor vehicles. Idaho has reciprocity with states that have registration laws. For non-residents living in states without registration laws, they must purchase a registration and license plate.

2. UNPAVED ROADS ON FEDERAL OR STATE PUBLIC LANDS:
Valid Driver's License, IC 49-301
Valid Liability Insurance, IC 49-1229
Carry Proof of Liability Insurance vehicle, IC 49-1232

Helmet under age eighteen (18), IC 49-666
Valid OHV sticker, IC 67-7122 (1)
Muffler requirement 96 decibels at 1/2 meter, IC 67-7125
Headlight after dark/poor visibility, IC 49-903, 49-905 (2)
Taillight after dark/poor visibility, IC 49-903, 49-906

You can register for unpaved roads use at some county courthouses, most motorcycle dealers, and the Idaho Department Of Parks and Recreation offices.

3. OFF HIGHWAY REQUIREMENTS: These are some of the requirements for OHV's which are operated strictly off road including trails, cross country and on non-maintained Forest Service and BLM road.
Valid OHV sticker, IC 67-7122 (1)
Muffler requirement 96 decibels at 1/2 meter, IC 67-7125
You can register for off highway use at some county courthouses, most motorcycle dealers, and the Idaho Department Of Parks and Recreation offices.

WHAT ARE THE REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS?

On or before January 1 of each year, the owner of any all-terrain vehicle (ATV) or motorbike, as defined in section 67-7101, Idaho Code, used off-public highways must register that vehicle with the Idaho Department of Parks and Recreation. Motorbikes and ATV's used exclusively on private agricultural land are excluded. The department or its authorized vendors will issue to the owner a validation sticker and a registration stating the number assigned to the off-highway vehicle and the name and address of the owner. The registration fee is $10.00, which includes a $1.50 vendor fee. All stickers which are issued throughout the year are valid through the end of the calendar year.


FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

United States Forest Service
Idaho Panhandle National Forests
(208) 765-7223

Bureau of Land Management
Coeur d'Alene District
(208) 769-5000

County Sheriff's Departments:
Kootenai County.........(208) 664-1511
Shoshone County........(208) 556-1114
Bonner County............(208) 263-3136
Boundary County.......(208) 267-3151
Benewah County........(208) 245-2555


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Old 12-30-2012, 10:35   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
He may answer it with more honesty than you did in post 230
So you failed to see the humor.

Some here believe police use checkpoints to further their agenda of harassing law abiding citizens while purportedly looking for impaired drivers.

You said grants funding checkpoint operations pay overtime to law enforcement officers manning them. That is documented in the Google search I recommended.

Bruce M posted a number of other expenses paid by grant funding. He also posted, "and of course a few cases of beer to celebrate an effective check point after shutting it down before driving home "

Now, I found that humorous. Cops with their agenda throwing back a few cold ones before 'driving' home.

Should I have added a , or ?

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:35   #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
certifiedfunds: "any officer who enforces a law I disagree with is bad and should be ashamed. Any officer who fails to enforce a law I want enforced should be ashamed."

In short, certifiedfunds is that very typical private citizen who believes the world should run according to whatever he wants at the moment and the police are evil because they do what the elected government says, instead of what he says. I wish those people were a minority, but they probably aren't.
I certainly agree with you on the vast, vast majority of issues/laws.

But I do think the day is coming when law enforcement officials are faced with a tough one. If you were in law enforcement, would you go around confiscating firearms because the "elected officials" say you should? Would you go around opening peoples safe deposit boxes to confiscate any precious metals they own? Would you enforce the taking of 401K money from people?

Am I crazy? Maybe. But these are all things that have happened in other countries and have been proposed at one time or another in this country.

Obama is a scary, scary man. Nothing would surprise me.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:39   #385
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I just don't think anyone has a place sticking a *******ed needle in my arm if I don't want it. You flatfoots can continue to hold your little fundraisers all you want. They're advertised and easy to detour around, anyhow. Just that many fewer flatfoots running around the streets harassing the rest of us.

Last edited by John Rambo; 12-30-2012 at 10:40..
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:47   #386
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
I just don't think anyone has a place sticking a *******ed needle in my arm if I don't want it. You flatfoots can continue to hold your little fundraisers all you want. They're advertised and easy to detour around, anyhow. Just that many fewer flatfoots running around the streets harassing the rest of us.
Oh snap!
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:48   #387
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I just don't think anyone has a place sticking a *******ed needle in my arm if I don't want it.
Not surprisingly, the courts really didn't ask your opinion on it. It's not an "unreasonable" search and seizure - they've already established cause and gotten a warrant. They've offered you an alternative - breathalyzer - and you refused. And the drivers license in your pocket, the contract that YOU signed, already gives them your consent*. You've already said you agreed!
(all of the above is a general, hypothetical "you". I'm neither implying or suggesting in any way you have driven or will drive drunk or refuse a breathalyzer. Just stating the process that's gone through)

You don't HAVE to have a drivers license. You can surrender it any time if you don't want to have your implied consent on file. That is a personal choice you make. If you don't like the law, contact your state representative and/or Senator and work to change it. If they can't or won't, vote for someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Barring that, the courts have already said it's legal. Your opinion on the matter - especially standing on the side of the road at 2:30am - doesn't make one iota of difference.



*provided your state has an implied consent law
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:54   #388
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I just don't think anyone has a place sticking a *******ed needle in my arm if I don't want it. You flatfoots can continue to hold your little fundraisers all you want. They're advertised and easy to detour around, anyhow. Just that many fewer flatfoots running around the streets harassing the rest of us.
Aaaaand now it's a party.

Gotdamn what the law says. What I think and feel is gospel and everyone should abide by it...
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:58   #389
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Rules don't apply when I am not touching the road...
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:00   #390
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Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
Rules don't apply when I am not touching the road...

LOL.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-30-2012 at 11:04..
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:20   #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
I just don't think anyone has a place sticking a *******ed needle in my arm if I don't want it. You flatfoots can continue to hold your little fundraisers all you want. They're advertised and easy to detour around, anyhow. Just that many fewer flatfoots running around the streets harassing the rest of us.
Actually, and you'd know this if you were actually reading...oh, never mind...

It has been well established in this thread that extra personnel are called in and paid overtime so that regular patrol areas are properly staffed.

Oh, and as to the "flatfoot" derogatory, isn't that a bit outdated?
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:25   #392
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Actually, and you'd know this if you were actually reading...oh, never mind...

It has been well established in this thread that extra personnel are called in and paid overtime so that regular patrol areas are properly staffed.
Ah, so its like self-funding overtime, huh? Man, they sure have a solid business model going there. I'll say one thing for the government, they know how to run a successful business - by pointing guns at everyone who disagrees.

Quote:
Oh, and as to the "flatfoot" derogatory, isn't that a bit outdated?
Considering police are as inept, if not more inept, than when it was invented, I'd say it still fits.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:26   #393
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
LOL....why are you changing the goal posts? You just spent 10 pages arguing that driving a car on a public roadway was an absolute right. .
I said TRAVELING was an absolute right and includes cars.

No court rulings have not contradicted that TRAVELING is not a right but instead a privileged. To circumvent the Supreme court ruling, the states have essentially said, TRAVELING BY CAR is right but using "our roads" is a privilege.

It is the exact same thing as saying you have a right to bear arms but to circumvent that right, you cannot have any weapons when on public roads or sidewalks. Of course this is what Chicago is doing right now after Heller and everyone screams about it. You, and others, have just been conditioned to accept that as long as it "their property" (which actually public property is not "theirs" but YOURS) they can put "reasonable" and "common sense" restrictions in place. You refuse to see it for what it is.

One right is just as strong as others, but once one side can put "reasonable" or "common sense" restrictions on it and change the language from "right" to "privilege" they have won. You have participated in the erosion of our rights by picking and choosing which of our "rights" you like to see as "privileges"

So lets sum this up.

1) Do you disagree with the Supreme Court decision (posted earlier in the thread) that said travel was a right? If you disagree with the ruling, then you are saying travel is not a right. To be blunt, is travel a right or is it not a right? It is very black and white. I have even posted the Supreme Court ruling on it. I guess you can also say the supreme court is not the ultimate law of the land.

2) If you agree that travel is a right, what forms of travel do you think are protected as right.

3) Do you think that a supreme court, in the 1960s, saw travel by motor vehicle as a valid means of travel?

4) If you believe that the supreme meant what they wrote and travel is a right, what corridors to the people have a right to use to travel in?

5) Or do you believe that the people of the USA have to ask permission to travel?
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:27   #394
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Not surprisingly, the courts really didn't ask your opinion on it. It's not an "unreasonable" search and seizure - they've already established cause and gotten a warrant. They've offered you an alternative - breathalyzer - and you refused. And the drivers license in your pocket, the contract that YOU signed, already gives them your consent*. You've already said you agreed!
(all of the above is a general, hypothetical "you". I'm neither implying or suggesting in any way you have driven or will drive drunk or refuse a breathalyzer. Just stating the process that's gone through)

You don't HAVE to have a drivers license. You can surrender it any time if you don't want to have your implied consent on file. That is a personal choice you make. If you don't like the law, contact your state representative and/or Senator and work to change it. If they can't or won't, vote for someone that agrees with you or run yourself. Barring that, the courts have already said it's legal. Your opinion on the matter - especially standing on the side of the road at 2:30am - doesn't make one iota of difference.



*provided your state has an implied consent law
Unfortunately, you're right. Its been ruled that we don't even have rights to our own bodies anymore. I bet our children will look back on that call as a shining moment in our judicial system...
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:28   #395
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Unfortunately, you're right. Its been ruled that we don't even have rights to our own bodies anymore. I bet our children will look back on that call as a shining moment in our judicial system...
Do you look at the crap that spews out of your mouth or is the smell too overwhelming?


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Old 12-30-2012, 11:29   #396
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....and yet again, the usual is shown to, again, not know what they're talking about, yet continue on.

The arrogance of ignorance really is something to behold (in addition to just plain old arrogance).
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:30   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Do you look at the **** that spews out of your mouth or is the smell too overwhelming?


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Huh, did you know that Glocktalk censors the word '****' when I try to reply to your post, but when you initially posted it, theres no censoring? Thats strange.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:30   #398
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Last edited by Sharky7; 12-30-2012 at 11:33..
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:32   #399
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
....and yet again, the usual is shown to, again, not know what they're talking about, yet continue on.

The arrogance of ignorance really is something to behold (in addition to just plain old arrogance).
If you look at your post, for example, its like a rainbow with the post color and the colors in your sig. I didn't know they allowed that kind of stuff on the force...

Last edited by John Rambo; 12-30-2012 at 11:32..
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:36   #400
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I understand people not liking authority.
I understand people thinking they know about the law or application of it because they've grown up watching TV/Movies, and now surf the web.

What's hard to believe is that after being shown the error of their ways so often, the same folks still press on time and again, with the same results.

What's that saying about one definition of insanity? And of course, now instead of conceding the point or yielding the field, the insults have been ramped up.

Please try to do better, or just don't post if you have nothing constructive to offer.

Just a humble suggestion for all.
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

Last edited by TBO; 12-30-2012 at 11:37.. Reason: spacing
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