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Old 01-03-2013, 20:39   #1
RussP
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Doc with carry permit charged: had gun in Pa. school while picking up child

Doctor with concealed-carry permit charged for having gun in Pa. school while picking up child
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:00   #2
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Interesting both that he was not placed in custody and that it took three weeks. Also my guess is that he is perhaps slightly better positioned than many financially to mount a defense and may be a more sympathetic and better spoken defendant. But maybe I am reading too much into this.
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Old 01-03-2013, 21:06   #3
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Guess it was not " concealed " very well...
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:12   #4
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I wonder if state preemption will come into play
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§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition.
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

Possession of Weapon on School Property.
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nun-chuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense Defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:10   #5
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Guess it was not " concealed " very well...
+1
If your goign to carry into a place that may be illegal & can't do something as simple as conceal it right to not get caught, you deserve what you get.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:26   #6
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There have a few incidents of this type over the years, however you never hear the out come. Seems no one wants to address the "for other lawful purpose" as far as defining exactly what that means. They probably agree to some lesser charge like disorderly conduct in order to make the whole thing go away and still keep their firearm privileges.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:28   #7
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Doesn't the Hippocratic Oath create a dilemma for doctors?:
"In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art."
"I will... never do harm to anyone."

These passages are from separate translations, but everyone is familiar with the "First, do no harm" concept.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:30   #8
Steve in PA
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It should also be pointed out that because he had a license to carry firearms (LTCF) which is PA's version of a carry permit, and thus under went a background check, the doctor is NOT in violation of the Federal Gun Free School Zone law.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:42   #9
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I have always understood that it is against federal law to possess a firearm on school property.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:44   #10
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Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
...and thus under went a background check, the doctor is NOT in violation of the Federal Gun Free School Zone law.
That all depends on the statutes of the state in question.

Kentucky is a Commonwealth like PA...but if you carry on to school property and are caught, you WILL be convicted of a crime and lose the weapon for good. Period.

However, armed IN your vehicle is excluded as long as weapon is not brandished or displayed.

Bottom line; know and abide by the CCW laws of your state.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:45   #11
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+1
If your goign to carry into a place that may be illegal & can't do something as simple as conceal it right to not get caught, you deserve what you get.
very nice self-serving "holier than thou it would never happen to me because I am smarter than that" position there Skeezix.

Things happen in the real world that don't in the theoretical one. To be useful a gun has to be accessible. Now, if you want to go really "deep cover" you could put it in the bottom of your "Fruit of the Looms" and walk around pretending you were glad to see everyone, but it might be a bit slow to get out of there.

Granted, the DR. in question probably could have done better job but sometimes, in the real world, people who have become accustomed to being armed, don't walk around all day thinking about it.

Don't be too quick to judge, and pat yourself on the back because it hasn't happened to you----yet.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:52   #12
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Like I said, because the doctor is "licensed" by the State (PA) in which the school is located and was qualified to be issued said license, he is NOT in violation of the GFSZ.



(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) shall does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:55   #13
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Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
+1
If your goign to carry into a place that may be illegal & can't do something as simple as conceal it right to not get caught, you deserve what you get.
Actually, it should be if you are stupid enough to carry into a prohibited place you deserve the penalty set by law.

There is no do something to not get caught.

Is your comment based on personal experience, you carry into prohibited places, you're just careful to not get caught?

Don't answer that.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:02   #14
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Oh I will. No I don't. I have enough sense to not carry where it's not leagl & IF i ever had to break that I certainly would make sure I did it in a way to not get caught. It's not hard to conceal a gun. Criminals do it all the time.
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very nice self-serving "holier than thou it would never happen to me because I am smarter than that" position there Skeezix.
Yes it is. Bottom line you break the gun laws that are in place you make us ALL look bad.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:03   #15
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So according both State and Federal law he didn't break the law? So why was he charged?
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:04   #16
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Actually, it should be if you are stupid enough to carry into a prohibited place you deserve the penalty set by law.

There is no do something to not get caught.

Is your comment based on personal experience, you carry into prohibited places, you're just careful to not get caught?

Don't answer that.
So true, Russ. It is against Federal law to CCW on any school property.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:09   #17
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So true, Russ. It is against Federal law to CCW on any school property.
Read the part of the Federal Law I posted. It is NOT against the law if you fall into the exception.

And PA law has a clause in their law about weapons on school property. The clause states that it shall be a defense to the charge if the weapon is possessed for "other lawful purpose".

The problem with the PA law is that there has never been a definitive answer as to what constitutes "for other lawful purpose".
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:11   #18
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So true, Russ. It is against Federal law to CCW on any school property.
How do you reconcile that with the information "Steve in PA" posted?
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:16   #19
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Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
Read the part of the Federal Law I posted. It is NOT against the law if you fall into the exception.

And PA law has a clause in their law about weapons on school property. The clause states that it shall be a defense to the charge if the weapon is possessed for "other lawful purpose".

The problem with the PA law is that there has never been a definitive answer as to what constitutes "for other lawful purpose".
Interesting -- I wasn't aware that there are exceptions written right in the law. Maybe I'll take my G17 CCW to the high school hockey game tonight.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:19   #20
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He is being charged with a violation of PA Law because someone finally wants an answer as to whether or not a LTCF = carrying for other lawful purpose.

I cover this every year during our departments firearms training and qualification. I point out the discrepancies or conflicts between Federal and PA laws and there is a ton!
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