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Old 12-27-2012, 10:09   #26
sjfrellc
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SO a Mangalista is an invasive species, but another species of the same genus of the same pig is not, yet it is not indigenous and if it is let loose will exhibit the exact same behavior. How is that logical exactly?

I would say that legal basis is the right to farm - this is a gray area actually if you think about it.
I would say that logic and fairness depend on what side of the debate you stand on. I haven't seen plenty laws that applied to me are not logical or fair.

Very similar to the gun control debate. And the baiting ban in Michigan. I don't like any of the laws or regulation, but I would follow the law. I am 100% against an assault weapons ban on my legally 30 round magazines, but I would comply with any existing firearms laws. I willingly complied with the baiting ban.

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but poor rules should be reconsidered, do you not agree?
I agree, but when all is considered and legal costs are paid you still have to follow the Invasive Species Order.

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There should have been some accommodation reached that would have allowed him to dispose of his stock at a profit and transitioned his stock to something legal.
That's for sure.


But see in this youtube video Mark states he was crossing the Russians, knows heritage breeds are outlawed and was not going to comply with the April 1 deadline last February.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...BUKrMXfGw&NR=1

Last edited by sjfrellc; 12-27-2012 at 10:54..
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:48   #27
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Originally Posted by Kegs View Post
A few killed piggies that escaped from a local pen is not "widespread damage" which is what the DNR is claiming. This is not a problem such as in TX or HI where pigs are rampaging everything everywhere.

This entire issue has nothing to do with controlling the wild pigs. That's the way the state of Michigan is selling it, but the purpose is far different than their sales pitch.

If this suit continues forward and we are allowed to see the workings of the government, I assure you people will not be pleased - this is why the judge has issued the gag order on the case and why its not being broadcast by news agencies.

I am really hoping the truth of this matter comes out so that everyone can see yet another attempt by our glorious leadership toward the fleecing of the people.

The Michigan DNR can call anything it wants "feral" and "invasive" apparently - whats next? Huskies? Cats? All people of non-indigenous race?



Look, I don't know all the info on this situation. One thing I do know however is that these DNR directives on non-baiting and kill all your swine, etc. are destructive on our economy and do not protect nor conserve the natural resources.

.
Are you and mark the same person?? because you are both sounding alittle paranoid right now..

it sucks that his farm might shut down but public safety is more important then his wants...so lets run the list why he should stop being a pain in the butt and end this

they carry a lot of disease's, they destroy farm land,kill cattle/sheep/poultry/deer/, even though a rare event, attack people (mostly hunters)

im all for the "good fight' and standing up for your rights but this guy doesnt care how this effects other people.

and you can throw all this goverment conspirecy theory around but i think the DNR have been nice about it..if i was one of the local ranchers i would have grabbed my .44 marlin and taken care of these diseased monsters myself..
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:06   #28
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Originally Posted by lunarspeak View Post
they carry a lot of disease's, they destroy farm land,kill cattle/sheep/poultry/deer/, even though a rare event, attack people (mostly hunters)

im all for the "good fight' and standing up for your rights but this guy doesnt care how this effects other people.
That's because many mistakenly equate freedom with anarchy, they think they should never need to answer to anyone for anything.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-27-2012 at 13:12..
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:04   #29
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anarchy is a society without a government, it has little to do with freedom or oppression at all.

I don't think any of us feel that we should never need to answer to anyone for anything.

I believe that insinuation is disingenuous at best, if not insulting.

I'm not Mark, I don't speak for him. I am a person in the broader community where he lives and I am trying to relay this issue (struggling to explain it the best I can)

I think this is actually a more complex issue than it appears.

I do not believe we are being paranoid in an age where there is a revolving door between the FDA and Monsanto that results in GMO salmon being approved.

I do not believe we are being paranoid when billions of dollars are spent on the "department of homeland security" and "transportation security administration" that do not result in anything but negligible return in safety for U.S. citizens.

I don't think I'm paranoid to believe that Diane Feinstein probably has other interests in mind as she supports "gun control" for my (and other U.S. citizen's) safety.

You can call it paranoid all you want, but poor decisions are being made by governments every day, and very few of those decisions are made on behalf of the citizens, most are made to grow the governments authority or on behalf of financially powerful interests that have close government ties.

In my opinion, I believe the DNR's directive and everything it is based on has little to nothing to do with protecting public safety and mostly to everything to do with supporting corporate interests of big agriculture and agri-food production who make high profits by cutting costs that are necessary to produce high quality food or conserving the environment.

Look guys, I don't even eat much pork. I most often eat lean meats chicken, fish, etc. - and I choose organic foods because I believe I can maintain my health better without ingesting roundup and foreign proteins used in GM food. I'm in my mid-40s and in far better physical shape than most of my friends my age.

I don't have a fight in this game other than I think the DNR is overreaching their authority and the basis of it is something that the state doesn't want to tell the citizenry.

Why else would they stall and gag the case?


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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
That's because many mistakenly equate freedom with anarchy, they think they should never need to answer to anyone for anything.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:30   #30
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Once anyone uses the word 'Monsanto', I lose all interest and credibility goes down.

Besides, I was lured to this thread by the mention of his vet status which has nothing to do with the situation.

We all have to follow rules. e can fight the rules in court.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:34   #31
faawrenchbndr
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I'll support DNR here as well.........feral hog have ruined Georgia,
Texas and many other states.

And I HATE solicitations.........
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:08   #32
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keggs...be blessed you havent got a problem with these yet...i use to run around georgia with this old girl and the farmers there beg people to come kill these things..the DNR is prob not going to be able to stop this epidemic but they can atleast slow it down.

the needs of the many is more important then the needs of the few....your friend needs to rethink his stand on this..he is basicly saying that his need to make money is more important then anyone elses need to make money and to heck with public health laws..

he is not going to gain public sympathy this way
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:57   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegs View Post
anarchy is a society without a government, it has little to do with freedom or oppression at all.

I don't think any of us feel that we should never need to answer to anyone for anything.

I believe that insinuation is disingenuous at best, if not insulting.
Quote:
an·ar·chy
noun \ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\
Definition of ANARCHY
1
a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2
a : absence or denial of any authority or established order
b : absence of order : disorder
Anarchy means more than simply "a society without a government".

Many believe 'freedom' means they should be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want, no matter the consequence to others. They believe they should have no responsibility to the society they live in or the elected government who is tasked with keeping that society orderly. They dream of a society which has no one of authority to answer to which is the very definition of anarchy .

I live in GA and I know damn well the issues feral hogs are posing to our farmers. These restrictions are needed and is exactly the type thing our government should work to prevent.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-28-2012 at 12:00..
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