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Old 12-25-2012, 12:19   #81
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
The truth is, spraying and praying is fun, but not that useful. If you can't use a pump as fast as a semi-auto, you aren't using the semi-auto right to begin with.
Or you suck with a semi auto
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Old 12-25-2012, 13:11   #82
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David killed Goliath with a sling, not a slingshot, which is an entirely different animal.

Having come under fire from some Arabs with them on the Lebanese border of Israel, they're no joke. Anyone without a helmet (like I was) and half the guys WITH helmets could have been killed if those idiots had any accuracy. They were hurling cobblestone size rocks at 50-100m. The IDF was shooting back with rubber bullets. That was nice, because the Arabs were going for the lethal option, and I'd have just shot them.

David was using the smaller golfball sized rocks going by the descriptions, with serious accuracy and lethality. The Roman army used slingers with lead or fired-clay "bullets" for the same reason. Against a massed target (think rioting mob) what's basically a patch of leather and two strings can effectively deter or injure people at short rifle distances...accurately, with practice. Even lethal option if it came down to it. I don't think we're going to have a new magazine called Slings & Spears Weekly, but remember it's not weapons that are dangerous, it's people and their minds.


Technology and training go hand in hand. If semiautos got banned, we'd be using 100 year old technology with current optics and options and training. A good man with a bolt action can seriously raise hell. It wouldn't be as easy or as 'cool' as a modern AR, but a rifleman with a bolt or levergun teamed with a second person with a shotgun has pretty much all the bases covered.

Same thing armies did in the 40s and 50s, having 2-3 guys with SMGs and a squad of guys with bolt guns are semiautos to cover close and long range.

Ruger wouldn't be the only one building Scout-ish rifles in that instance, and there'd be a resurgence of popularity in leverguns, whether traditional tube feds or the '95 Winchester/Savage 99/BLR mag fed types.

A .308, 7mm-08, .270, any of the medium 7mm sized rounds, topped with aperature sights and an Aimpoint or fixed 2X would be the apex of WW1-WW2 technology level fighting rifles w/o going to a semiauto action. It'd be back to slightly heavier calibers and trying to ensure a first round hit was a channel changer, rather than multiple smaller caliber hits, fast in the same place.

Your average .30-30 or .357 levergun will still defend a house quite well, especially with modern updates (XS sights, a weaponlight) if it comes down to it.
Just watched this on biblical battles on the history channel. The narrator claims the sling was capable of slinging a 4 oz rock at 125 FPS and 60lbs of energy within the 30 yds direct fire that David killed Goliath. Said the 4 oz rock would have penetrated at least 2" into Goliath eye socket.
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Old 12-25-2012, 15:05   #83
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Fixed your post for you.
The next AWB will be on steroids and have sharp teeth!
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Old 12-25-2012, 17:14   #84
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I'd use my lever action Marlin 1894, 44 mag, 10 rds +1. Longer range, my Interarms 30-06...
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Old 12-25-2012, 17:55   #85
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After reading most of the posts on this thread, I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people are really overly concerned about nothing. They are making mountains out of molehills. You can "what if" all you want, but it does nobody any good. How many of you recall what happened with the last AWB? One thing that did happen was gun sales went through the roof, as did high capacity magazines. The government banned weapons with certain features, so the manufacturers found a way to get around that and still produced weapons that were perfectly legal to buy. How did the last AWB impact the sales of so-called "assault weapons"? It did not. Any weapon that was made prior to 1994 with the "evil" features was not effected. Essentially, sales continued to grow. The talk of a new AWB is just that. Look at what has happened in the wake of Sandy Hook, gun sales and hi-cap mag sales have gone through the roof, especially "assault" type weapons. Ammo is flying off the shelves as well.

If ARs/AKs are banned, what will you arm yourself with? What ever I have at the time. Including my ARs or AKs.

God protect us and our Constitutional rights. May those than can, help those that cannot. Defend our liberty and freedom with all our moral fiber. Defeat tyranny and oppression with whatever it takes. Our forefathers worked too hard to make this a free country and the men and women of our nation's military have given their lives and the lives of loved ones to defend it. It is time for the American people to stand up and defend what is ours and not relinquish it. This is our Country, land that we love. Stand beside her and guide her through the night with the light from above. Gon bless America, our home sweet home.
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Old 12-25-2012, 18:28   #86
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i have always wanted to try a remington 7615. its a pump 223 rifle that takes any ar mag
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:30   #87
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An AR or AK.


**** 'em
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Old 12-26-2012, 13:15   #88
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Harsh Language and....
Black Rifle Forum
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:32   #89
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This is what they are going to try to do......


Summary of 2013 Feinstein Assault Weapons

Legislation

Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:

120 specifically-named firearms

Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a

detachable magazine and have one military characteristic

Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept

more than 10 rounds

Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:

Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test

Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from

the characteristics test

Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bulletbuttons” to address

attempts to “work around” prior bans

Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than

10 rounds.

Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:

Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment

Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or

sporting purposes and

Exempting antique,manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms

Act, to include:

o Background check of owner and any transferee;

o Type and serial number of the firearm;

o Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;

o Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that

possession would not violate State or local law; and

o Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:33   #90
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Won't pass.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:22   #91
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Won't pass.
Don't be so sure... I know it will be a tough fight in the House, but we have enough turncoats in the conservative party that I can't count on all of them to stick to the fight, and I don't trust the Dems at all to not just vote the party line like they did with Obamacare.

Senate? Done deal. It'll pass without so much as a debate.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:26   #92
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Don't be so sure...
Many forget the 94 ban only passed by 1 vote. And thats because that idiot in my state changed his mind at the last minute.
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:17   #93
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Don't be so sure... I know it will be a tough fight in the House, but we have enough turncoats in the conservative party that I can't count on all of them to stick to the fight, and I don't trust the Dems at all to not just vote the party line like they did with Obamacare.

Senate? Done deal. It'll pass without so much as a debate.
As it is written there, it won't pass. But I suspect some form of it will. There will be negotiations.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:50   #94
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When I was sitting in a training room with a lot of firearms instructors & armorers recently, someone posed a question to the group. They wanted to take a poll of which firearm someone would choose if they could only have 1 long gun.

Most of the folks answered they'd want a M4, which made a certain kind of sense when you considered the LE/tactical mindset of the group (instructors, armorers, patrol, swat, etc). A couple answered shotgun. Might have been one SKS tossed in there.

Me? I answered a .30-30 lever gun.

When asked why, I responded that the ammo was widely available just about anywhere in the country, even in some backwater bait/tackle/gun shop. Not many "runs" on that caliber.

Another advantage offered by the old lever gun design is an integral magazine (tube).

Detachable box-type magazines are fine for their intended role, but a M4 without magazines is a slow single shot weapon. Magazines can be dropped & lost a bit more easily when they're not attached to the rifle.

Then again, maybe I just like to be a bit of a contrarian now & again.

Of course, I plan to keep my old .30-30 lever rifle, which sits alongside my registered Colt "assault rifle" in my safe.
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Old 12-27-2012, 13:10   #95
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In that hypothetical, a Win 94 lever rifle and my 870.
ETA: as Fastbolt pointed out nicely, no magazines to be concerned about and the weapon can be topped off easily as you go.
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Old 12-27-2012, 13:12   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS1 View Post
My GARAND serves me as well today as it did in WWII

I would like the Garand also. It worked before.
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Old 12-27-2012, 13:15   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glock031 View Post
Just watched this on biblical battles on the history channel. The narrator claims the sling was capable of slinging a 4 oz rock at 125 FPS and 60lbs of energy within the 30 yds direct fire that David killed Goliath. Said the 4 oz rock would have penetrated at least 2" into Goliath eye socket.

Shot placement over caliber. Accepted philosophy.
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Old 12-27-2012, 13:20   #98
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I see a lot of people have already gave up! I will not give up my rights so in answer to your question MY AK and my 35 30 round mags
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Old 12-27-2012, 13:29   #99
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I will continue to use my AR and AK rifles. It is what any person who subscribes to the Constitution of the United States of America would do. Many people have died over the past 136 years defending the Constitution and the freedoms and responsibilities it affords citizens of this country. The document has an addendum, the Second Amendment to the Constitution, which requires citizens to bear arms in defense of the document -- to protect it from all enemies.

The context of the Second Amendment in the document makes it clear that the founding fathers intended for citizens to have the power to defend the Law of the Land, with lethal force if necessary. Even against the "government" itself, if necessary.

It is getting very tiresome reading the remarks of people on gun boards who would so easily abrogate their civic responsibility and loyalty to the Constitution of the United States of America because some *** hat journalists are calling for a curtailment of the Right to bear arms. Too many great men and women have given their lives for this responsibility for shooting enthusiast (of all people!) to roll over in compliance with any "law" that contradicts the spirit of Amendment #2.
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Old 12-27-2012, 23:31   #100
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lever action 30-30 and 12 gauge pump
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