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Old 12-28-2012, 13:49   #26
LongGun1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
Just curious & none of my business really, but do you already shoot 300BLK, or is there some other reason? Reason I ask is that the short-to-medium ballistics that I've seen on the 300BLK seem to nearly mimic a .357 magnum carbine as far as bullet weights & velocities. Seriously good stuff from an AR-sized semiauto carbine; just not sure of the advantages in a single-shot unless it's a caliber a person already uses...?

Not knocking the gun or the round, just wondering if there's some other advantages of it that I'm not familiar with. Thanks

Very quiet.....as in HK MP5SD quiet.


Functions well with subsonic or supersonic loads....suppressed or unsuppressed....without multiple gas port settings

Supersonic 300 BLK greatly outclasses the 5.56 loadings....especially in SBR length barrels!

Energy of the subsonic 300 BLK at 500 yards..

.. is equivalent to .45ACP FMJ at approx 20 yards...

..which everyone knows a 230 gr from a 45ACP is a friggin death ray at that distance!


Did I say subsonic ammo will reliability cycle full or semi auto.

Subsonic ammo readily available.


Nearly full power & great accuracy out of SBR length barrels (8" to 9") with subsonic loadings....close with supersonic loadings...

..compared to 5.56 in which velocity/energy drops off rapidly with barrels less than 14.5"..

...etc....etc!!

Can use same magazines, lowers, uppers, bolt & bolt carrier, casings (permanently modified), etc as an AR



I would ask anyone to carefully consider the info & advantages in these videos...






The ability to use a pistol caliber suppressor with the 300 BLK subsonics & suppress down to a 120db SPL!



Here is a AAC Handi-Rifle 300 Blackout with Silencerco Osprey45

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Old 12-28-2012, 14:02   #27
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I get all that, and it's probably a great round for an AR platform imo. Just that in a single-shot like that, not sure what the advantage is over a .357 magnum (or most any magnum-handgun-caliber) version that launches roughly the same weight bullets at roughly the same velocities; both subsonic and supersonic.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:46   #28
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Originally Posted by quake View Post
I get all that, and it's probably a great round for an AR platform imo. Just that in a single-shot like that, not sure what the advantage is over a .357 magnum (or most any magnum-handgun-caliber) version that launches roughly the same weight bullets at roughly the same velocities; both subsonic and supersonic.

Energy at distance & accuracy....

(much better ballistics coefficient)

..& ammo commonality with primary semi-auto/select fire weapons platform.


Also, the 300 defeats cover better than handgun rounds..

(a big plus... considering the recent stories of crazed predators/active shooters with body armor)

..other positives as well.
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Old 12-28-2012, 21:12   #29
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Originally Posted by quake View Post
Just curious & none of my business really, but do you already shoot 300BLK, or is there some other reason? Reason I ask is that the short-to-medium ballistics that I've seen on the 300BLK seem to nearly mimic a .357 magnum carbine as far as bullet weights & velocities. Seriously good stuff from an AR-sized semiauto carbine; just not sure of the advantages in a single-shot unless it's a caliber a person already uses...?

Not knocking the gun or the round, just wondering if there's some other advantages of it that I'm not familiar with. Thanks
LG gave good info.

This has a bunch more information.

You're not gonna hurt my feelings...lol. You're giving me a chance to talk about my new favorite cartridge...

If you can spare the time, watch the Travis Haley video LG posted entitled 300 blackout year. He's doing crazy stuff with the cartridge.

I agree with you that the 300 and 357 mag are similar inside of 150 yards. The 300 really starts to shine past that. It has the same energy at 700 yards that the 556 has at 500. The 300 also achieves total powder burn in 8-12" where the 357 will continue to burn through 18" of barrel.

I'm getting into it for the AR platform as I can use all of my existing mags, lowers, BCGs, ect with this round. Really lowers my investment and allows me to buy more toys in this caliber.

One of my biggest complaints about the 556 has always been the lack of penetration through cover. The 300 is pretty much equivilant to the 7.62x39. The 6.8 adressed this but had other drawbacks. I believe the 300 blackout will eventually replace the 556 as the intermediate caliber of choice. The spec ops communinity has jumped on it with both feet for a reason.

The handi rifle will be cut down to a 10" barrel and SBRed. This will give me a rifle thats fully capable out to 500 yards in a package that's truly backpack sized.

If you have any other questions, let me know. You're giving me a reason to do more research...lol.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:00   #30
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Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
LG gave good info.

This has a bunch more information.

You're not gonna hurt my feelings...lol. You're giving me a chance to talk about my new favorite cartridge...

If you can spare the time, watch the Travis Haley video LG posted entitled 300 blackout year. He's doing crazy stuff with the cartridge.

I agree with you that the 300 and 357 mag are similar inside of 150 yards. The 300 really starts to shine past that. It has the same energy at 700 yards that the 556 has at 500. The 300 also achieves total powder burn in 8-12" where the 357 will continue to burn through 18" of barrel.

I'm getting into it for the AR platform as I can use all of my existing mags, lowers, BCGs, ect with this round. Really lowers my investment and allows me to buy more toys in this caliber.

One of my biggest complaints about the 556 has always been the lack of penetration through cover. The 300 is pretty much equivilant to the 7.62x39. The 6.8 adressed this but had other drawbacks. I believe the 300 blackout will eventually replace the 556 as the intermediate caliber of choice. The spec ops communinity has jumped on it with both feet for a reason.

The handi rifle will be cut down to a 10" barrel and SBRed. This will give me a rifle thats fully capable out to 500 yards in a package that's truly backpack sized.

If you have any other questions, let me know. You're giving me a reason to do more research...lol.
Good discussion! This is the Glocktalk I like, actual discourse about real things. What I am curious about is the cost of ammo. What are you paying for your ammo, or are you handloading it?
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Old 12-29-2012, 15:24   #31
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Originally Posted by Stevekozak View Post
Good discussion! This is the Glocktalk I like, actual discourse about real things. What I am curious about is the cost of ammo. What are you paying for your ammo, or are you handloading it?
Factory ammo is about a buck a bang pre-panic buying.

I just ordered 4k cases that are deprimed, cleaned/polished, sized, trimmed, and lubed of brass for $.13/each.

Match bullets are $130.00/thousand. Powder and primer costs are minimal.

Did the math and, taking the brass out of the equation, it will cost me around $.22/each to reload match quality ammo. If I start casting lead bullets, I can get that down to $.05-$.07/each. Not too bad.
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Old 12-29-2012, 16:27   #32
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I got some nice AR ammo before it all disappeared (for Christmas)

A half case of Prvi 75gr BTHP match ammo and a couple boxes (100rns) of Black Hills 50gr TSX barnes (highly recommended by doc roberts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongGun1 View Post
(a big plus... considering the recent stories of crazed predators/active shooters with body armor)

..other positives as well.
No active shooter has ever worn body armour.

Let's not spread untrue information.

If you have verifiable information otherwise, I'd like to see it.

Don't get me wrong, the ability to defeat soft armour for the first time an active shooter does wear it (it's a matter of time), is good. And home invaders may wear body armour. But I'm quite certain no mass shooter in this country has worn body armour.
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Old 12-29-2012, 17:57   #33
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Originally Posted by Warp View Post
I got some nice AR ammo before it all disappeared (for Christmas)

A half case of Prvi 75gr BTHP match ammo and a couple boxes (100rns) of Black Hills 50gr TSX barnes (highly recommended by doc roberts)



No active shooter has ever worn body armour.

Let's not spread untrue information.

If you have verifiable information otherwise, I'd like to see it.

Don't get me wrong, the ability to defeat soft armour for the first time an active shooter does wear it (it's a matter of time), is good. And home invaders may wear body armour. But I'm quite certain no mass shooter in this country has worn body armour.
What about the Movie Theater Shooter? Wasn't he wearing a lot of gear?

Link

Is this what you are talking about?
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Old 12-29-2012, 18:01   #34
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What about the Movie Theater Shooter? Wasn't he wearing a lot of gear?

Link

Is this what you are talking about?
He may have worn a lot of gear, but he did not wear a bullet resistant vest

There are, of course, inaccurate media reports based on little-to-zero factual and verifiable information, but he was wearing a load bearing vest to carry magazines.

No mass shooter in this country has worn a bullet proof (resistant) vest
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Old 12-29-2012, 18:42   #35
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Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
...I agree with you that the 300 and 357 mag are similar inside of 150 yards. The 300 really starts to shine past that.
There we go. I don't have much call to shoot anything past 150 for 'serious' purposes; some probably do, I just don't personally. For entertainment I'll sometimes shoot pistols & pistol-caliber carbines at a 230-yard gong, and I like to "pop a cantaloupe at a quarter mile" for the kids to see, with my heavy-barreled 308 bolt gun, but other than that I don't much shoot past a hundred with most carbines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
...It has the same energy at 700 yards that the 556 has at 500.
Didn't realize that; that's very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
...The 300 also achieves total powder burn in 8-12" where the 357 will continue to burn through 18" of barrel.
Depends... You can do some interesting things when loading your own...


Quote:
Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
...I'm getting into it for the AR platform as I can use all of my existing mags, lowers, BCGs, ect with this round. Really lowers my investment and allows me to buy more toys in this caliber.
That's a VERY valid consideration, and often missed by folks. Simpler is usually better when it comes to logistics. I went thru a minor version of this when I recently bought a smith 9mm M&P pistol. I knew I'd need new holsters, but I didn't realize I'd need new mag carriers as well. The ones from my glock 9mm's for the most part aren't even close, and even the ones for the older smith 5906 are different enough to be a problem in some of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by actionshooter10 View Post
...The handi rifle will be cut down to a 10" barrel and SBRed...
Now that will be neat if you sbr & suppress it.
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Old 12-29-2012, 18:47   #36
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Quote:
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No active shooter has ever worn body armour.

Let's not spread untrue information.

If you have verifiable information otherwise, I'd like to see it.
http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...-movie-theater

Quote:
Here’s what we know so far (and this info is likely to change):



A man left the midnight screening of the new Batman movie about 15 minutes after the movie started. He walked out through an emergency exit door and apparently propped the door open somehow. He drove his car to the now-propped door, armed himself with three guns (Remington 870, S&W AR-15, and Glock .40 pistol). He also donned body armor, a gas mask, a tactical vest containing extra magazines, a bulletproof helmet, and even ballistic leggings, throat and groin protection. He left one additional pistol in the car along with several thousand rounds of ammunition.

Not just active shooters..


Facts are...bad guys you might encounter are more likely to wear body armor than in years past...IMO

..seen too many pics of thugs with drugs, cash, wearing or displaying body armor & heavy firepower!



Lets not forget this lesson in bad guys with body armor...

..2 heavily armored & armed robbers who went down in history


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Old 12-29-2012, 18:52   #37
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http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...-movie-theater




Not just active shooters..


Facts are...bad guys are more likely to wear body armor..

..seen many pics of thugs with drugs, cash, body armor & heavy firepower!

Lets not forget this.....2 heavily armored & armed robbers who went down in history


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOWSDtxERU"]400 Cops - VS - Two heavily-armed and armored bank robbers / True events 1997 - YouTube[url]
I am aware of the north hollywood shootout, which appears to be the topic of that video. It certainly isn't a 'mass shooter' scenario as the only fatalities were the two criminal perpetrators.

Where did the guy who wrote what you quoted get that information?

BTW: It doesn't reflect well on their knowledge when they talk about his stockpile of "bullets"
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Old 12-29-2012, 19:04   #38
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I am aware of the north hollywood shootout, which appears to be the topic of that video. It certainly isn't a 'mass shooter' scenario as the only fatalities were the two criminal perpetrators.

Where did the guy who wrote what you quoted get that information?

BTW: It doesn't reflect well on their knowledge when they talk about his stockpile of "bullets"

Best to man up & simply admit you were incorrect..

..or contact http://www.activeresponsetraining.net to correct them!


I have seen that info on the Aurora Theater Shooter in multiple credible places..

..though not this detailed..

"He also donned body armor, a gas mask, a tactical vest containing extra magazines, a bulletproof helmet, and even ballistic leggings, throat and groin protection."
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Old 12-29-2012, 19:11   #39
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Best to man up & simply admit you were incorrect..

..or contact http://www.activeresponsetraining.net to correct them!


I have seen that info on the Aurora Theater Shooter in multiple credible places..

..though not this detailed..

"He also donned body armor, a gas mask, a tactical vest containing extra magazines, a bulletproof helmet, and even ballistic leggings, throat and groin protection."
I'm skeptical about going with a single source that contradicts pretty much everything else, but the guy who wrote that article would seem to be in a position to accurately report this.

Can you provide the other sources?

This is a topic that has come up quite a few times in different threads on different forums, with the unanimous conclusion being that he did not wear amour.

If he did, and it can be proven/verified, that is a very important consideration. And I want to get it right. I do not see fault with your source. But do you have more? I'd like to be 'fully armed' the next time this topic comes up, and spread the word.
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Old 12-29-2012, 19:39   #40
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As I understand it, the batman movie shooter wore a blackhawk "urban assault vest". The CEO of tacticalgear.com was interviewed by fox news and gave the actual model, as it had been mail-ordered from them.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/22...#ixzz21LBULgLS

Can't speak about the helmet or leggings, but as far as the vest, even though it would have been legal for him to have ballistic armor, the people he bought it from say it wasn't armor; just "heavy nylon". Now, I have no way of confirming; but with as many conflicting reports as there have been, and as biased as the media is, I'm disinclined to believe that he had a ballistic vest. Especially since the company he bought it from (and who does sell armor) says otherwise, and since his order (which included the vest, a knife, and two magazine carriers) totaled only a little over $300 in all. I don't see that including any armor, but again I can't prove it.

That said, I do believe armor on bad guys will eventually, gradually be more of an issue. That's why we train marksmanship-wise, for that one - currently rare to the point of being almost unknown - moment when we might face that threat. It's also why my third (second-reload) magazine is fmj instead of the federal jhp or corbon pow'rball my first two magazines carry. (In the glocks, it's federal jhp, in kahr or smith, it's the corbon.)






Now; as far as the topic of this threat - 'what have I done this week'...

Ordered some AR mags online. May seem a silly time to do so since I don't really need them, but I did have a reason. There's a gunshow in jacksonville arkansas this weekend and I took some of my old AR magazines there today to sell/trade. I've been having trouble finding more magazines for my M&P pistol; just had an online order for five of them cancelled this week. Only found two at the gunshow, but the dealer traded the two of them straight-up for four unused mil-spec AR mags that I bought last year, for $8.99 apiece. Basically, got $36 total investment on my part, and got two smith 19440 mags that cost $30 apiece even before this recent silliness.

Same show, 30-round AK mags were $35-$45, and new AR 30-rounders were running from $30 to $50. In that environment, I sold three old mil-spec 30-rounders for $50 and the guy thanked me profusely, since that was so "cheap". Now, I bought them used for $9 apiece back during the clinton ban (1996 or 97), stuck $3 magpul followers on them sometime in the interim, used them for 15-16 years and then - because people are crazy-emotional right now - sold them for enough to buy an equal number of NEW replacement ones which I already have on order. That's just weird; but typical of emotion-based economic bubbles. IIRC it was warren buffet who said to buy when everyone else is selling, and sell when everyone else is buying; and this is just a microcosm of that truth.
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Old 12-29-2012, 19:46   #41
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I sold three 17 round Glock 17 mags for $150, and a 33 round Scherer brand 9mm Glock magazine for $75
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Old 12-29-2012, 20:41   #42
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I'm skeptical about going with a single source that contradicts pretty much everything else, but the guy who wrote that article would seem to be in a position to accurately report this.

Contact the author for verification. Reports were the Aurora Shooter wore body armor (possibly only a vest with mags), ballistic helmet, ballistic this & ballistic that....if he was wearing only one piece of a ballistic defeating material...then he was wearing body armor.

Also...even if a threat is not wearing "body armor"..

..but simply a LBV with layers of loaded steel AK mags..

..many reports of similar defeating 5.56 rounds out of SBR in the caves of Afganistan


But....this is the SPF...

..& I am not just preparing for what has happened..

..but if a Major SHTF...what might or likely will happen.


Like the story of the criminals in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina who raided the police armory for weapons..

..best to fully expect to encounter well armed bad guys with body armor during a Major SHTF/TEOTWAWKI..

..including feral LEO/Mil or imposters.


YMMV



Also...9 more Troy CBIR Battlemags on the way...(for 300 Blackout

..along with the 50 AR mags that arrived last Saturday.
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Old 12-29-2012, 20:59   #43
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Of course, It's a losing war to prepare only for what has happened, without being proactive or looking ahead.

I have an M4 type rifle loaded in my bedroom for many reasons, and this is one of them. Thugs get their hands on armour too.

But I still don't think a mass shooter has worn a bullet proof (resistant) vest, despite some of the media's short stroking reactions
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:28   #44
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I just put the funds I got selling some magazines to good use and pulled the trigger on the three items necessary to scope my Garand.

Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER "Scout" scope
Ultimak M12 rail
Leupold 1" quick release scope rings

Can't wait!
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:58   #45
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Undercoated the pick up with Fluid Film -

http://www.fluid-film.com/

Also, recently - got - new breaks, tires, shocks (I had 150K miles on them - should be done around 80K) and battery - Optima deep cycle - last about 8+ years.
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Old 12-30-2012, 16:58   #46
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Food, food , more food (long term storage, have about 6 mos supply now for 2 ) guns and ammo taken care of. Water plan in place. Fuel and cooking ability covered..great thing about living in south is that it is not that cold for a long period of time. Also looking at a 10 acre tract with barn and pond about 45 minutes from home.
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Old 12-30-2012, 17:27   #47
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south is that it is not that cold for a long period of time. Also looking at a 10 acre tract with barn and pond about 45 minutes from home.
I'm in GA - if you don't mind me asking what is the range of cost for that - you can PM me if you want.

Thanks
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Old 12-30-2012, 19:07   #48
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Posts: 7,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp View Post
I just put the funds I got selling some magazines to good use and pulled the trigger on the three items necessary to scope my Garand.

Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER "Scout" scope
Ultimak M12 rail
Leupold 1" quick release scope rings
Can't wait!
QRW's or throw-lever? I've had a nearly-monogamous love affair with qrw's ever since discovering them.
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Last edited by quake; 12-30-2012 at 19:07..
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Old 12-30-2012, 19:11   #49
Warp
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
QRW's or throw-lever? I've had a nearly-monogamous love affair with qrw's ever since discovering them.
QRW.

But now the order has bounced back at me due to a weird thing with PayPal so it isn't set it stone yet, hopefully their customer service reads my email and gets things straight soon, but with the holiday, we'll see

I spent a couple hours researching which rings to get after ordering the scope last night. I knew from the moment I looked into this stuff over the summer that I'd eventually get an Ultimak rail and that Leupold scope...never thought to look into rings, though. These are the first stand alone set of just 'rings' I've ever purchased
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Last edited by Warp; 12-30-2012 at 19:12..
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:54   #50
rgregoryb
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 12,703


Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMason View Post
I'm in GA - if you don't mind me asking what is the range of cost for that - you can PM me if you want.

Thanks
37,000...it has a small house also, but in bad shape. The barn is fairly new and made of concrete block, brick and metal roof
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