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Old 12-23-2012, 11:02   #376
RussP
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
So Russ, let's clear the air.

What do you believe is going to happen, say, over the next few months.

Do you think that there will be anti-gun legislation passed?
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Russ, do you beleive that the left can pass anti-gun legislation? Do you believe that can happen?
Yes...
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:04   #377
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Son, you have one of two options before you....
M&P, everyone here understands your position. We just disagree with it. Most of us are also at least as informed and intelligent as you. By continuing to react to disagreement with derision and insults (especially with typos ) you weaken your position.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:09   #378
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Son, you have one of two options before you.
or how about this option.....DAD

WE give them nothing and have them fight and claw for everything that they get, and I'm not naive enough to believe that they won't get anything. but why make it easy for them?

I negotiate for a living....and I can tell you that if I showed up at a meeting and said "I'm willing to give you X" that my clients would say, great, in addition to X, we want Y and Z.

Maybe when it's all said and done they end up with X but I'm not going to offer X right off the bat. Just as we shouldn't offer the anti's anything
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:10   #379
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Let the leftist anti-gunners pass anti-gun legislation that really makes things tough on us. Picture an more impactive, wider reaching AWB, that has no sunset provision.

Or.

Play the political game, compromise on something that makes no difference, and save ourselves to fight another day.

You can choose to not compromise, and lose HUGE. Or bend a bit and not take a massive beating.

Which do you chose?
In a compromise, what will the anti-gunners' compromise point be? We give up NICS for all sales at gun shows. What will they give up? What would you ask them to give up.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:11   #380
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Yes...
Then what, exactly, do you think we should do right now?

You want to poo-poo everything I am saying. Either because you do not like me, and/or do not like how I am saying it.

You MUST understand this:

SOMETHING WILL BE PASSED.

There can be NO QUESTION ABOUT THIS.

Yes, it absolutely IS a FOREGONE CONCLUSION.

We are now in damage control mode. In order to not take a massive beating, we need to be pro-active and be part of the legislative process, through the NRA (which, so far, is sucking the Big One).

Yes, we are most likely going to have to compromise on something.

*GASP!!*

If we don't, we are going to take a huge hit on this one.

I am not being defeatist, I am being inetlligent and understanding about the situation at hand.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:16   #381
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or how about this option.....DAD

WE give them nothing and have them fight and claw for everything that they get, and I'm not naive enough to believe that they won't get anything. but why make it easy for them?

I negotiate for a living....and I can tell you that if I showed up at a meeting and said "I'm willing to give you X" that my clients would say, great, in addition to X, we want Y and Z.

Maybe when it's all said and done they end up with X but I'm not going to offer X right off the bat. Just as we shouldn't offer the anti's anything
That is the absolute truth.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:19   #382
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or how about this option.....DAD

WE give them nothing and have them fight and claw for everything that they get, and I'm not naive enough to believe that they won't get anything. but why make it easy for them?

I negotiate for a living....and I can tell you that if I showed up at a meeting and said "I'm willing to give you X" that my clients would say, great, in addition to X, we want Y and Z.

Maybe when it's all said and done they end up with X but I'm not going to offer X right off the bat. Just as we shouldn't offer the anti's anything
It's called POLITICALLY DEFUSING THE SITUATION.

Once again, because you have repeatedly not grasped this:

I am not concerned about Diane Feinstein, Bloomberg, and the other anti 2A psychophants. These people cannot be pacified, cannot be reasoned with, and will never stop. They have been clamoring to take our rights away FOR YEARS. But they have not done it, because they have not had the political capital to get it done.

We have to get the millions of people that normally DO NOT CARE ABOUT GUNS AND GUN CONTROLL, to calm the hell down. We give THOSE PEOPLE a little political victory, and they go away.

This takes away the power from Feinstein, Bloomburg et al. They only have the politcal capital and votes right now to cram something down our throats, because of the massively emotional reactions they are have to the school shooting in CT.

Are you getting this? Is this sinking in?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:19   #383
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Then what, exactly, do you think we should do right now?
Right now, give up nothing, demand everything.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:20   #384
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Then what, exactly, do you think we should do right now?

You want to poo-poo everything I am saying. Either because you do not like me, and/or do not like how I am saying it.

You MUST understand this:

SOMETHING WILL BE PASSED.

There can be NO QUESTION ABOUT THIS.

Yes, it absolutely IS a FOREGONE CONCLUSION.

We are now in damage control mode. In order to not take a massive beating, we need to be pro-active and be part of the legislative process, through the NRA (which, so far, is sucking the Big One).

Yes, we are most likely going to have to compromise on something.

*GASP!!*

If we don't, we are going to take a huge hit on this one.

I am not being defeatist, I am being inetlligent and understanding about the situation at hand.
"2+2=5" is wrong, regardless of the font you use.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:21   #385
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"2+2=5" is wrong, regardless of the font you use.
But, but, but with the right level of indignation it might work..
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:22   #386
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That is the absolute truth.
No it is THE OLD TRUTH.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

We could afford to fight tooth and nail when we had everything to gain, and nothing to lose. When we had political capital to spend, and the anti-gunners didn't

That is not the case anymore. The roles have been reversed.

We stand to lose BIG, and you are still not grasping that.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:23   #387
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Right now, give up nothing, demand everything.
So, despite that fact that you have acknowledged that the left can pass anti-gun legislation, you think we should go on the offensive and demand more?

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Old 12-23-2012, 11:24   #388
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Then what, exactly, do you think we should do right now?

You want to poo-poo everything I am saying. Either because you do not like me, and/or do not like how I am saying it.

You MUST understand this:

SOMETHING WILL BE PASSED.

There can be NO QUESTION ABOUT THIS.

Yes, it absolutely IS a FOREGONE CONCLUSION.

We are now in damage control mode. In order to not take a massive beating, we need to be pro-active and be part of the legislative process, through the NRA (which, so far, is sucking the Big One).

Yes, we are most likely going to have to compromise on something.

*GASP!!*

If we don't, we are going to take a huge hit on this one.

I am not being defeatist, I am being inetlligent and understanding about the situation at hand.
How bout we stick with something that will work? We have enough useless legislation as it is. How about we actually come up with a better idea that would help mitigate instances like CT and fight tooth and nail for their passage into laws as opposed to spending time on anything that has been proven ineffective and will only further restrict the law abidings rights?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:25   #389
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But, but, but with the right level of indignation it might work..
Hey buddy!!

Care to add something? Or are you just going to snipe from the sidelines, offering nothing?

How about you actually contribute something?

Because I am STILL waiting for one person to post anything that is based on any sort of logic or understanding.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:28   #390
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Because I am STILL waiting for one person to post anything that is based on any sort of logic or understanding.
Seriously? Are you really saying that?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:29   #391
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Hey buddy!!

Care to add something? Or are you just going to snipe from the sidelines, offering nothing?

How about you actually contribute something?

Because I am STILL waiting for one person to post anything that is based on any sort of logic or understanding.
After 16 pages of gun owners disagreeing with you one would think that you'd realize you are wrong.

I'm beginning to think you're flying a false flag

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-23-2012 at 11:29..
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:29   #392
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We have to get the millions of people that normally DO NOT CARE ABOUT GUNS AND GUN CONTROLL, to calm the hell down. We give THOSE PEOPLE a little political victory, and they go away.
How do you "give THOSE PEOPLE a little political victory"?

Do you believe that if you say, "Hey, people, we'll give you NICS for all sales if you will not demand any more," that they will instruct their Congressmen and Representatives to not ask for any more?

Do you believe those politicians will not ask for more?

Do you believe the people will just go away when you agree to give them NICS?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:29   #393
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How bout we stick with something that will work? We have enough useless legislation as it is. How about we actually come up with a better idea that would help mitigate instances like CT and fight tooth and nail for their passage into laws as opposed to spending time on anything that has been proven ineffective and will only further restrict the law abidings rights?


Because we are not going to get to choose the battle. The anti-gunners DO NOT CARE what you think. They do not care about what YOU think would actually help. They do not care about facts or the truth.

All they care about is using this tragedy to further their poltical agenda.

And this is the biggest opportunity they have had since Reagan was shot.

They will use it.

It is NOT a question of whether we will win or lose. It is a question of how well we play the poltical game and mitigate the disaster, because we ARE going to lose.

You wanna lose big? Or do you wanno lose small?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:32   #394
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Hey buddy!!

Care to add something? Or are you just going to snipe from the sidelines, offering nothing?

How about you actually contribute something?

Because I am STILL waiting for one person to post anything that is based on any sort of logic or understanding.
The only answer you want to hear is you are correct. You came to the wrong forum for that.

What you purpose will not work, has not worked anywhere it has been tried, and is a waste of time, resources and your valued political capital. We are better served enforcing the laws on the books, getting rid of gun free zones, and investing in mental health rehab, diagnosis, and treatments. ALL of that has been purposes to you and you out right reject it...
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:32   #395
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After 16 pages of gun owners disagreeing with you one would think that you'd realize you are wrong.

I'm beginning to think you're flying a false flag
It's 16 pages of GTers that can't see the forrest for the trees.

It's 16 pages of peopel that absolutely REFUSE to take notice of what is happening in this country.

Now, how about you?

Do you think that anti-gun legislation is going to be passed?

A simple yes or no answer is all that is necessary.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:33   #396
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Because we are not going to get to choose the battle. The anti-gunners DO NOT CARE what you think. They do not care about what YOU think would actually help. They do not care about facts or the truth.

All they care about is using this tragedy to further their poltical agenda.

And this is the biggest opportunity they have had since Reagan was shot.

They will use it.

It is NOT a question of whether we will win or lose. It is a question of how well we play the poltical game and mitigate the disaster, because we ARE going to lose.

You wanna lose big? Or do you wanno lose small?
So you are an anti gunner? You don't seem to care what we think.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:34   #397
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The only answer you want to hear is you are correct. You came to the wrong forum for that.

What you purpose will not work, has not worked anywhere it has been tried, and is a waste of time, resources and your valued political capital. We are better served enforcing the laws on the books, getting rid of gun free zones, and investing in mental health rehab, diagnosis, and treatments. ALL of that has been purposes to you and you out right reject it...
You want to argue using facts and logic against the anti-gun left?



Let me also ask you the same question.

Do you believe that Federal anti-gun legislation will be passed in the next few months?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:35   #398
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So, despite that fact that you have acknowledged that the left can pass anti-gun legislation, you think we should go on the offensive and demand more?

Have you ever negotiated for anything
in your life. I don't mean a better price on your car, either.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:35   #399
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So you are an anti gunner? You don't seem to care what we think.
No, you're not getting it.

The left has already determined that this is going to be about guns and gun control.

What YOU, OR I, think about the situation matters not one little bit.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:37   #400
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We have to get the millions of people that normally DO NOT CARE ABOUT GUNS AND GUN CONTROLL, to calm the hell down. We give THOSE PEOPLE a little political victory, and they go away.
Quote:
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How do you "give THOSE PEOPLE a little political victory"?

Do you believe that if you say, "Hey, people, we'll give you NICS for all sales if you will not demand any more," that they will instruct their Congressmen and Representatives to not ask for any more?

Do you believe those politicians will not ask for more?

Do you believe the people will just go away when you agree to give them NICS?
Well????
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