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Old 12-21-2012, 10:30   #301
GunHo198
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I have seen people selling at Flea markets without NICS checks. There was a guy recently shot by some thugs because he wouldn't sell to them. They stole the guns instead. All were caught by police later.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:40   #302
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Originally Posted by GunHo198 View Post
I have seen people selling at Flea markets without NICS checks. There was a guy recently shot by some thugs because he wouldn't sell to them. They stole the guns instead. All were caught by police later.
But that's illegal. I'll bet they were convicted felons too.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-21-2012 at 10:40..
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:15   #303
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Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.

put down the crack pipe and move away slowly......

by your reasoning, we should all just run right down to the local police station and register every firearm we have.

worked out pretty well for the Germans, Brits and Aussie's i'd say.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:17   #304
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Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.

and not only that, then if you want to sell a gun to a friend at home, this will be off limits as well and ALL deals will have to go thru an FFL. With all the *******s gouging the **** out of stuff now, (Pmags, from $10 to $60 in 3 days, stripped lowers from $90 to over $400 now) where do you think those prices will go?
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:31   #305
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Originally Posted by Henry's Dad View Post
What I've never understood is this:

At it's first sale at a dealer, a handgun must enter the stream of commerce through an FFL.

So who's the moron who registers the gun in his name and then later sells it privately without an official transfer?

Gun gets used in a crime, who does it get traced back to? Last owner of record, yes?

Even if a private transfer is technically legal, why would you want that liability hanging over your head?

Same reason I've never understood the upside of straw purchases for the official buyer of record. Sure, somebody pays you to make the official buy, but then you're on the hook for whatever happens with that gun.
handwritten Bill of Sale with buyers name, Drivers Lic, Address, date of sale and Ser No. of gun sold. i do this on ALL of my private sales or purchases, no exceptions.

if the buyer/seller gives me any grief over it or tries to convince me not to do a BoS, i walk. to me, this is just as important as having a safe to store the guns.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:44   #306
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As a former FFL holder and still with many friends who have FFL's, yes the non FFL holder does set up his table at gun shows. Yes he sells new and used weapons without going through the BATF licensing requirements.
How does a non FFL/private seller sell a "new" firearm that first wasn't transfered to an FFL for distribution? Once a transfer is made, are they not "used"?

I've never seen a private seller sell a "new" firearm, I've seen NIB stuff for sale, though.

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Ask any FFL holder who participates in gun shows what he thinks of these scabs selling at shows without going through FFL licensing requirements.
I set up at gunshows and I have.

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They will tell you get rid of this type of scab.
They will? They don't seem to mind - unless they are afraid to say it to my face. I doubt it though as I've known some of the FFLs for years and consider them close, personal friends.

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Some of the non educated will say things like, what is wrong with that, well it's a loophole that should be closed!
I don't think so. Do that and private sales will go away.

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Also, try going to a gun show within 75 miles of the Mexican border and look up one of these fine citizens that are non FFL holders, oh yeah, real winners. But it's cash and carry, sort of like Somalia in the US. Not everyone with cash purchasing weapons is an upstanding citizen.
I agree. But, it seems, though, that there are a number of scummy FFLs getting caught doing the same things you imply private sellers are doing.
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Old 12-21-2012, 13:06   #307
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Yup - people walk around holding a gun out and another person walks up and purchases it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 13:09   #308
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Originally Posted by Henry's Dad View Post
What I've never understood is this:

At it's first sale at a dealer, a handgun must enter the stream of commerce through an FFL.

So who's the moron who registers the gun in his name and then later sells it privately without an official transfer?

Gun gets used in a crime, who does it get traced back to? Last owner of record, yes?

Even if a private transfer is technically legal, why would you want that liability hanging over your head?

Same reason I've never understood the upside of straw purchases for the official buyer of record. Sure, somebody pays you to make the official buy, but then you're on the hook for whatever happens with that gun.
A LOT of people own guns that are not traceable back.

They sell them to other people at times.
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Old 12-21-2012, 13:13   #309
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If you can't understand that doing so would in no way, shape or form "compromise someone else's rights", then you are representative of the stupidity of gun owners. You would rather lose the entire enchilada (ALL OF OUR RIGHTS), than bend (but NOT BREAK) on something that would make absolutely no difference.

I swear, there can be no doubt. Gun owners are our own worst enemy.
"stupidity of gun owners"

Oh... except your brilliance - noted.
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Old 12-21-2012, 13:17   #310
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[QUOTE=M&P15T;19753842]
could lose much, much more due to a "break but don't bend" ignorant ass attitude most folks here seem to have.

According to you - Gun owners are "stupid" and have an "ignorant ass attitude".

I don't assume YOU are stupid or ignorant.

Then again, I don't have to......
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Old 12-21-2012, 13:23   #311
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I'm gonna wrap this up for folks that don't seem to be getting this.

In the end, it is just math. Once a certain number of elected officials become willing to vote for anti-gun legislation, it will happen.

It has not happened in the last 10+ years, because the anti-gunners did not have the votes. Now, after this latest shooting in CT, they most definitely have the votes. So be forewarned, its gonna happen. It ain't gonna be stopped.

Ya'll can rail against everything I have posted here, but it's nothing but reality. And, to be logical about it, it's probably too late to do anything pro-active about it at this point.

Good luck to all of us.....we're gonna need it.
You would be taken more seriously if you didn't write like
Chicken Little and throwing insults at your audience while
extolling the "WAY".

Please, watch Judge Judy reruns and calm down before you have a fit.
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Old 12-21-2012, 15:12   #312
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But that's illegal. I'll bet they were convicted felons too.
And they were stolen guns used in crimes already..
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Old 12-21-2012, 15:53   #313
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Well.."its my god given right, how dare you. I make money with my unregulated gun show table and I do not have to be a real Busniess person either. The hell with paying taxes and licensing." for you fine gentleman I have fired off an e-mail. I explained that one of the easiest ways to close the Gun Show loophole is to alert the IRS that it is possible many of the unlicensed unregulated dealers at Gun Shows may not be paying their taxes as they should. Maybe someone should check a few of them out. Sorry guys. Your gun show days are numbered. I will do everything I can to support shutting you down. You are part of the problem.
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:00   #314
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Well.."its my god given right, how dare you. I make money with my unregulated gun show table and I do not have to be a real Busniess person either. The hell with paying taxes and licensing." for you fine gentleman I have fired off an e-mail. I explained that one of the easiest ways to close the Gun Show loophole is to alert the IRS that it is possible many of the unlicensed unregulated dealers at Gun Shows may not be paying their taxes as they should. Maybe someone should check a few of them out. Sorry guys. Your gun show days are numbered. I will do everything I can to support shutting you down. You are part of the problem.
Mods, please ban this turd...
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:13   #315
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Well.."its my god given right, how dare you. I make money with my unregulated gun show table and I do not have to be a real Busniess person either. The hell with paying taxes and licensing." for you fine gentleman I have fired off an e-mail. I explained that one of the easiest ways to close the Gun Show loophole is to alert the IRS that it is possible many of the unlicensed unregulated dealers at Gun Shows may not be paying their taxes as they should. Maybe someone should check a few of them out. Sorry guys. Your gun show days are numbered. I will do everything I can to support shutting you down. You are part of the problem.
Good for you! Do you feel better?

Better find out who's been been renting them tables... Unless there's a law that's being violated, not much anybody can do.

Better send them to the flea markets, garage sales and all the other private citizens who deal in cash while you're at it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:16   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by number1gun View Post
Well.."its my god given right, how dare you. I make money with my unregulated gun show table and I do not have to be a real Busniess person either. The hell with paying taxes and licensing." for you fine gentleman I have fired off an e-mail. I explained that one of the easiest ways to close the Gun Show loophole is to alert the IRS that it is possible many of the unlicensed unregulated dealers at Gun Shows may not be paying their taxes as they should. Maybe someone should check a few of them out. Sorry guys. Your gun show days are numbered. I will do everything I can to support shutting you down. You are part of the problem.
What a steaming pile of fecal matter you are.

Don't be passive aggressive. Be a man! Go to the gun shows and tell the people at the tables what you did. Wait for them in the parking lot and give them a piece of your mind. Tell them you contacted the IRS and BATFEces to shut them down.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-21-2012 at 16:18..
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:24   #317
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What a steaming pile of fecal matter you are.

Don't be passive aggressive. Be a man! Go to the gun shows and tell the people at the tables what you did. Wait for them in the parking lot and give them a piece of your mind. Tell them you contacted the IRS and BATFEces to shut them down.

+1000 maybe?
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:25   #318
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and i LOVE the "BATFEces" part!!!!! hahahahaha
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:29   #319
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What a steaming pile of fecal matter you are.

Don't be passive aggressive. Be a man! Go to the gun shows and tell the people at the tables what you did. Wait for them in the parking lot and give them a piece of your mind. Tell them you contacted the IRS and BATFEces to shut them down.
He could even go to the ATF both that usually sets up at most bigger shows!

He should go to the giant WANENMACHER'S in tulsa. It's in april, just before tax day Tell the IRS to go over there, should be a bunch of private sellers.
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:40   #320
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Apparently this strikes a real nerve. Maybe I am a little to close to the truth.
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Old 12-21-2012, 16:55   #321
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We are in danger of losing our gun rights over an emotional reaction. I'm nearly 70, and since I was a kid, a segment of our population has wanted to make every firearm in the country evaporate. And they do it in increments, the way the Russians gobbled up Eastern Europe. Take a little country, nobody's going to war over a little country. Then wait a while and take another. Pretty soon there's only one little country left and nobody wants to fight over it, either.

You make a law, you gotta have definitions of terms. They're going to try to pass something that "closes the gunshow loophole" and they have to define a gunshot. That's not what they have in mind, though. This bill will prohibit any transfer of ownership of a gun by sale or gift without a background check, and there goes the sale to the brother in law or the best buddy, or just giving it to your grandkids. They sell it to the public by saying, "Well, we're just closing the 'gunshow loophole.'"

On a more general level, the anti-gun crowd will throw out an idea that might be a reasonable restriction, but that isn't the problem - you CAN'T TRUST THEM TO STOP THERE. Because they won't, and a few years down the road when we have another school shooting (and we probably will), they'll point to what happened now and say that it wasn't enough.
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Old 12-21-2012, 17:07   #322
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I got to every gun show in Vegas. There is ALWAYS a few guys selling guns slung on their backs or carrying signs if its a handgun. I have sold a gun that way once to a guy with a table of private guns. I also sold lots of guns in the WalMart parking lot and at the police substation parking lot. Thats the loophole that is the source of pain to non gun folks. Regulation is not the same as restriction.

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Old 12-21-2012, 17:22   #323
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Apparently this strikes a real nerve. Maybe I am a little to close to the truth.
If you did, in fact, send an email to the IRS, lets see the text. Lets see your argument and claims.

Out of curiosity, I'm also wondering if your writing style in the email is anything like what you've been posting.
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Old 12-21-2012, 17:40   #324
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Apparently this strikes a real nerve. Maybe I am a little to close to the truth.
When it comes to being a gun-grabbing statist POS I think you're not close, you're right in the 10 ring.
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Old 12-21-2012, 18:14   #325
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Armslist.com is a good example of the loophole at large...not saying pro or con, but its right there.
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