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Old 12-14-2012, 06:55   #176
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Originally Posted by dixietoo View Post
For me, the Mac-PC questions boils down to how mechanically minded the purchaser is.
I agree with your observations.

I'll add that some of the major objections some Mac fanboys make (viruses, BSODs, etc.) are caused by users lack of knowledge. Viruses, like NDs, can be mostly avoided by practicing safe computing (avoid questionable websites, don't open questionable email, etc.). BSODs happen, but are much more common among those who install software and hardware they don't know about (sorry, but it's true). A good gun analogy is the "bubba gunsmith". 'nuff said.

So yeah, if you want an "appliance computer" a Mac is a good choice, but be aware of what it is and don't try to tell everyone that it's the best choice for them.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:00   #177
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Originally Posted by dictate View Post
For me, the Mac-PC questions boils down to how mechanically minded the purchaser is.


The guy who changes his own oil or installs his own tile in the kitchen is a PC guy and the guy pays others to do such things for him wants a Mac.

Um, no. I maintain and overhaul helicopters, rig turbine engines, perform aircraft sheetmetal repairs & more for a living, remodel my own homes and would never buy anything but a Mac.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:06   #178
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Originally Posted by Phaze5ive View Post
Get back to us when the honeymoon phase is over.
I switched 7 years ago. I'm still waiting for the honeymoon to end. How much longer?

Matt - You won't look back. I've got 5 mac notebooks in my house now. After you transition over start looking into some of the shortcuts and workflow enhancements that are built into the OS that Apple doesn't talk about.

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Old 12-14-2012, 07:07   #179
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Originally Posted by dixietoo View Post
For me, the Mac-PC questions boils down to how mechanically minded the purchaser is.
The guy who changes his own oil or installs his own tile in the kitchen is a PC guy and the guy pays others to do such things for him wants a Mac. I just got a new laptop myself.
That's because pc users NEED to be able to do that crap. Mac users buy a machine that just works great for years.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:09   #180
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That's because pc users NEED to be able to do that crap. Mac users buy a machine that just works great for years.
Many of my users need to run AutoCAD or Microstation.

ETA (had to leave) - it's apps like these which make Apples impractical. Sure, they can be run on Apples, but doing so requires a lot more savvy than the target "it just works" user is capable of. So if the acumen is required, why not just learn to use a Win machine?

Last edited by gwalchmai; 12-14-2012 at 08:03..
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:10   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixietoo View Post
For me, the Mac-PC questions boils down to how mechanically minded the purchaser is.
The guy who changes his own oil or installs his own tile in the kitchen is a PC guy and the guy pays others to do such things for him wants a Mac.
and a Linux user builds the oil rig, drills for oil, refines it, then uses it to change his oil..
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:12   #182
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Originally Posted by robrides85 View Post
Beautiful, yes. Durable, no. Just googled "replace ipod digitizer" (another part that went out on fiance's iPod, past warranty - mine had problems pre-warranty, so was replaced under warranty).

3.1 million results.
Yes durable. I've got about a dozen apple devices in my house. I think I've replaced 2 HDDs over the last 6 years or so.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:23   #183
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Originally Posted by IndianaMatt View Post
Yes, durable for sure. Compared to flimsy HP or Toshiba cases. Absolutely.

Google results doesn't establish anything.

"Flying pigs" = 3 million results.
Wow, making me do actual research beyond a search count? If there wasn't a demand for the digitizers, then they wouldn't be sold, right? Not cool. lol - here's some:

http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=24310

The judge throws out a class action lawsuit filed because cracked glass increased 80% with the iPhone 4 and 4S, and yet agrees that smartphones (iPhones included) are not durable:

"it is a well-known fact of life that glass can break under impact, even glass that has been reinforced. This much is known to the ordinary, reasonable consumer (added for comedic element: "except Apple users"). The shattered window of a storefront, the cracked windshield of a car, and the chipped smartphone screen are routine encounters of modern existence."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/techn...0,7972474.post

11% of iPhone users are walking around with cracked screens in the US.

40% walking around with broken iPhone screens in UK (probably self-reported survey, so high, I'd assume).

http://www.djsresearch.co.uk/Telecom...-Screens-00270

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:23   #184
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:51   #185
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That's because pc users NEED to be able to do that crap. Mac users buy a machine that just works great for years.
The exception proves the rule, I reckon. It doesn't sound like you are a video editor or a musician or a graphic artist or person who uses a computer to make things as part of your living. Macs have always been good at graphics and audio and grew into being good machines for video processing. For a few years Mac led the market for digital video production with an off the shelf machine.
Today it's 6 of one and half a dozen... If you just want something that will play music, dvds, bluerays, read a book, web surf, etc, an off the shelf Mac will be preferable to many novice users. I hope they enjoy paying for it and any extra Apple device they use with it, cause they will pay pretty well for those, too.
Yes i did end up learning quite a bit of things about Windows and buses and ram and power supplies and motherboards and Intel and AMD and video cards and shaders and breakout boxes and a boatload of other stuff just playing with my home workstation. That knowledge help me to get several jobs and probably will in the future.
The only folks who HAVE learn things they don't really don't want to know are in prison.
The Macs were always an option for me, but not in my professional life. If the shop is already PC it usually stays that way. But I think Macs have always been overpriced and look kinda gay...:P
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:55   #186
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Yes durable. I've got about a dozen apple devices in my house. I think I've replaced 2 HDDs over the last 6 years or so.
Apple doesn't make hard drives and they aren't really a part of the system that fails due to the way the system is put together. I can only recall 10 or so hard drive failures total since 1998.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:57   #187
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Yes durable. I've got about a dozen apple devices in my house. I think I've replaced 2 HDDs over the last 6 years or so.
Its the same parts, spanky. The exact same internal parts. EXACT SAME. There is no difference.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:01   #188
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That's because pc users NEED to be able to do that crap. Mac users buy a machine that just works great for years.
See, that's the thing. After I bought my mac, I realized that I needed to open it up and make upgrades. I bought it figuring 4 GB of RAM would be enough. After using it for a couple months, I realized that it wasn't. I would get constant crashes when doing mundane tasks such as youtube for example. Doubled the RAM and problems went away. On Win 7, 4GB of ram was plenty for anything I need to do. I also dropped an SSD in there, because with the regular HD it was pretty slow. Having updated my system to Mountain Lion (came with Snow Leopard, mid 2010 MBP), and the video animations of the UI are not that smooth anymore. Which is weird, because it is running a decent Nvidia card in there. Over the years I've realized that people who loudly proclaim the superiority of their Macs are generally coming from junky PCs. And needless to say that a $1200 mac is much better than the $400 PC. As far as viruses go, I don't remember the last time my PCs got viruses either.

Honestly, I love my mac. Really, it is one of the highest quality computers on the market, very intuitive to use, great battery life etc. Having said that, the days of Macs being superior quality have long gone. You can find PC manufacturers who use aluminum cases, make super thin PCs, etc. The only difference is, you're not going to find them in your local best buy. And if you compare a Mac and a high end PC side by side, the only thing separating the 2 is the OS.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:05   #189
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Its the same parts, spanky. The exact same internal parts. EXACT SAME. There is no difference.
I realize that, buckwheat. In what is generally a much higher build.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:08   #190
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
i realize that, buckwheat. In what is generally a much shinier case.
ftfy.

Made me think of this:

"Raccoons are very curious animals and they just love to grab shiny things in the water. One of the oldest methods of trapping coons is to wrap the pan of a leg-hold with tin foil. The coon will see the shiny foil and grab the pan setting the trap off on his paw. But, if they grab the outside jaw of the trap, the trap will fire without the coon getting caught."

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:09   #191
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The "I don't get viruses" thing cracks me up. Viruses are NOT inherent to the PC platform, just to ignorant use of it. I've had zero in my last decade of PC use because I know how to run a PC.

Oh, and THREE of my MacBook Pro using friends have gotten viruses. They do exist for Mac.

That said, I don't begrudge Mac, they provide a well-built product that will run well for the tech illiterate. Heck, I'm typing this on an iPhone, which as a diehard PC user I find superior to Android. Just as long as you are aware of and accept, instead of trying to debate, that you're getting absolutely raped price-wise for the usually mid-line components.

Not to mention that if you know how to build your own PC, you can build a desktop system that is faster than ANY built by apple. i7 with Ivy Bridge architecture, parallel GeForce GTX 690s, a few Corsair M4 512GB SSDs, and 32 gigs of Corsair Vengeance 2133 DDR3? Fuggadaboutit! As for build quality, just don't scrimp, buy a nice $200-300 ATX Mid-Tower, there are those even nicer than Mac build quality.

Not that that is especially cheap either, though, haha.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:10   #192
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
That's because pc users NEED to be able to do that crap. Mac users buy a machine that just works great for years.

Really? How do you explain all the "Oh, yeah? I've upgraded x, y and z on my MacBook with no issues!" posts, then?


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Old 12-14-2012, 09:15   #193
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Its the same parts, spanky. The exact same internal parts. EXACT SAME. There is no difference.
Not so fast.

For one example. I've torn into all of my Macs at one time or another to increase RAM and/or HDD capacity etc. All of my Macs have had Fujitsu HDDs as original equipment. Fujitsu drives were always very highly rated and more expensive than most others.

Second your implication is that Macs lasting a long time can't be due to parts.

As I'm convinced Macs do retain useful utility longer than PCs it's got to be because of a mix of parts, construction, or the OS and related.

I'm typing this on an ancient white Mac that has been dropped several times, has been all over the world, and has been used hard nearly every day of its life I'm still using the original battery and charger - the batt is only good for about 1.25 hrs but that's ok for me.

Since I bought this Mac my son has been through three and soon will be onto his fourth PC laptop. He's not rough with his machines but he uses them hard. Trackpads stop working, screens go permanently green, keys fall off, chargers crap out, batteries totally die, USBs fail, CD drives die etc. Due to is major requirements at university he is bound to PCs.


ETA - it's a Ford v. Chevy argument. Why worry that some make a slightly different choice than you do?
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:18   #194
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I realize that, buckwheat. In what is generally a much higher build.
Compared to what? A 300 dollar no-name PC? Yeah, that makes sense.

How many Mac supercomputers are there in the world?
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:20   #195
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Not so fast.

For one example. I've torn into all of my Macs at one time or another to increase RAM and/or HDD capacity etc. All of my Macs have had Fujitsu HDDs as original equipment. Fujitsu drives were always very highly rated and more expensive than most others.

Second your implication is that Macs lasting a long time can't be due to parts.

As I'm convinced Macs do retain useful utility longer than PCs it's got to be because of a mix of parts, construction, or the OS and related.

I'm typing this on an ancient white Mac that has been dropped several times, has been all over the world, and has been used hard nearly every day of its life I'm still using the original battery and charger - the batt is only good for about 1.25 hrs but that's ok for me.

Since I bought this Mac my son has been through three and soon will be onto his fourth PC laptop. He's not rough with his machines but he uses them hard. Trackpads stop working, screens go permanently green, keys fall off, chargers crap out, batteries totally die, USBs fail, CD drives die etc. Due to is major requirements at university he is bound to PCs.


ETA - it's a Ford v. Chevy argument. Why worry that some make a slightly different choice than you do?

Thats great. They still use the same exact parts. You want a Fujitsu hard drive in your PC? Order it with one. You want an Intel SSD (best SSD out in terms of reliability), order it with one.

Its the same exact parts. But if you compare a $2,000 computer to a $300 one, you're not even on the same tier as far as hardware goes.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:20   #196
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See, that's the thing. After I bought my mac, I realized that I needed to open it up and make upgrades. I bought it figuring 4 GB of RAM would be enough. After using it for a couple months, I realized that it wasn't. I would get constant crashes when doing mundane tasks such as youtube for example. Doubled the RAM and problems went away. On Win 7, 4GB of ram was plenty for anything I need to do. I also dropped an SSD in there, because with the regular HD it was pretty slow. Having updated my system to Mountain Lion (came with Snow Leopard, mid 2010 MBP), and the video animations of the UI are not that smooth anymore. Which is weird, because it is running a decent Nvidia card in there. Over the years I've realized that people who loudly proclaim the superiority of their Macs are generally coming from junky PCs. And needless to say that a $1200 mac is much better than the $400 PC. As far as viruses go, I don't remember the last time my PCs got viruses either.

Honestly, I love my mac. Really, it is one of the highest quality computers on the market, very intuitive to use, great battery life etc. Having said that, the days of Macs being superior quality have long gone. You can find PC manufacturers who use aluminum cases, make super thin PCs, etc. The only difference is, you're not going to find them in your local best buy. And if you compare a Mac and a high end PC side by side, the only thing separating the 2 is the OS.
OSx is very RAM intensive. I tend to buy my Macs with the smallest possible amount of RAM and immediately up-swap for max RAM or at least much more matched RAM. I do the same with PCs.


ETA - I learn a lot during these discussions. I'll be buying at least two and maybe three laptops over the next several months so it's cool to have varying opinions.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:21   #197
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:23   #198
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Thats great. They still use the same exact parts. You want a Fujitsu hard drive in your PC? Order it with one. You want an Intel SSD (best SSD out in terms of reliability), order it with one.

Its the same exact parts. But if you compare a $2,000 computer to a $300 one, you're not even on the same tier as far as hardware goes.
Way to totally glide past my point.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:25   #199
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Honestly, I love my mac. Really, it is one of the highest quality computers on the market, very intuitive to use, great battery life etc. Having said that, the days of Macs being superior quality have long gone. You can find PC manufacturers who use aluminum cases, make super thin PCs, etc. The only difference is, you're not going to find them in your local best buy. And if you compare a Mac and a high end PC side by side, the only thing separating the 2 is the OS.
I could not agree with you more, the Macs have generally been great machines that use quality components and are very reliable. Obviously its a great brand with a good OS or they would have gone by the wayside. Macs are an industry standard for printing, audio and video production and animation.
The best PC I have owned I built myself. Even my new ASUS could not sit stock for me, I bought it knowing i would be adding a drive and maybe ram,(the 12 gigs it came with seems sufficient so far, :P)
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:27   #200
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Way to totally glide past my point.
Thats because your point didn't matter.

They use the same hardware. Thats the point that matters. A Mac's perceived longevity is not due to some magically better parts. Its due to the OS and drivers being proprietary and it being harder to muck up the computer with crap software.

You can build a PC with any parts you want. You can build a PC with the exact same parts with the same part numbers that a Mac uses if you want.
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