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Old 12-03-2012, 18:27   #1
Coffee Dog
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Dave Spaulding's video on Stopping Power

Here's a very interesting video by Dave Spaulding on big caliber versus smaller caliber and what the shooter is recommended to use for effective incapacitation.

What are your thoughts on both this video and what you
believe gives you the most stopping power regarding using a caliber that gives you a bigger hole versus using a smaller caliber that gives both a smaller hole but better accuracy?

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Old 12-03-2012, 20:03   #2
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Interesting video. As many of us have engaged into the caliber debates, I think one thing we all agree upon is shot placement will always supersede caliber. And I think psychologically we rely on handguns to be more reliable threat neutralizers than they literally are.

When it comes to recoil management and getting three shots in one second. This is more than likely done with typical range ammo and not with their carry load. This can change people perceptions of recoil especially with 9x19 proponents. There is some pretty hot 9x19 stuff out there (127+p+, 124+p, 115+p) that would probably recoil as much if not more than some .40 S&W loads.
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Old 12-03-2012, 20:15   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcremer View Post
Interesting video. As many of us have engaged into the caliber debates, I think one thing we all agree upon is shot placement will always supersede caliber. And I think psychologically we rely on handguns to be more reliable threat neutralizers than they literally are.

When it comes to recoil management and getting three shots in one second. This is more than likely done with typical range ammo and not with their carry load. This can change people perceptions of recoil especially with 9x19 proponents. There is some pretty hot 9x19 stuff out there (127+p+, 124+p, 115+p) that would probably recoil as much if not more than some .40 S&W loads.
The rapid firing I do at the range is using both JHP ammo & full metal jacket -which helps me manage all recoil.
Thank-you for your insight.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:48   #4
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Great video. Dave is a well respected trainer. There is so much difference in energy and power levels between handguns that I think it is somewhat simplistic to blanket ALL handguns into one category.

I am a huge fan of the 357 Magnum having seen many people shot with it and EVERY one of them either DRT or out of the fight. I carry a 357 Sig. Three shots in under 1 second is a nice baseline.
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Old 12-04-2012, 13:46   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk View Post
Great video. Dave is a well respected trainer. There is so much difference in energy and power levels between handguns that I think it is somewhat simplistic to blanket ALL handguns into one category.

I am a huge fan of the 357 Magnum having seen many people shot with it and EVERY one of them either DRT or out of the fight. I carry a 357 Sig. Three shots in under 1 second is a nice baseline.
Nanuk: Thanks for your post. I also respect Dave Spaulding
for his experience but grouping all calibers as one & ignoring
various energy levels is not fully understanding stopping power and the weapons effectiveness!

Last edited by Coffee Dog; 12-04-2012 at 21:30..
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Old 12-04-2012, 14:23   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcremer View Post
When it comes to recoil management and getting three shots in one second. This is more than likely done with typical range ammo and not with their carry load. This can change people perceptions of recoil especially with 9x19 proponents. There is some pretty hot 9x19 stuff out there (127+p+, 124+p, 115+p) that would probably recoil as much if not more than some .40 S&W loads.
I carry 9mm 124+P and it is mild compared to 165 gr .40s.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 12-04-2012 at 14:23..
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:04   #7
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Great video, pretty much covers it for me.
Put them where they need to go, repeat as needed.
When it comes to the debate over service calibers, it's really a debate over millimeters here or there, for the most part, when you compare a solid load from each.
For me it's about the whole combination of weapon, caliber, ergos and portability, because it's not just one thing that determines how well I'll hit with it or how effective I can be with it. Handguns will always be like that, and likely different for one person to the next.
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:38   #8
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Berto... Well said!
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:48   #9
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It's about shot placement and what gear selection and training you need to be able to accurately place shots in the vital areas while you are under stress.
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Old 12-04-2012, 18:53   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berto View Post
Great video, pretty much covers it for me.
Put them where they need to go, repeat as needed.
When it comes to the debate over service calibers, it's really a debate over millimeters here or there, for the most part, when you compare a solid load from each.
For me it's about the whole combination of weapon, caliber, ergos and portability, because it's not just one thing that determines how well I'll hit with it or how effective I can be with it. Handguns will always be like that, and likely different for one person to the next.

Good post
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Old 12-04-2012, 19:08   #11
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WHo said you can't have both accuracy & larger hole? I shoot a 1911 better than my Glock. If I have to get into a fight, I hope I am carrying one of my 1911s & a spare mag. If you can shoot, you can shoot, caliber will have little to do with it. Now split times may be a bit faster w/ a lesser caliber, maybe that wins the fight maybe not, but we are talking 1/10ths of a second. I shoot with a lot of Master class IDPA guys, I only shoot expert, but they can shoot anything, so can any of us with enough practice.
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Old 12-04-2012, 19:22   #12
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If you can shoot a .45 well enough and, more importantly, are the most comfortable with that then it's a no-brainer.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 12-04-2012 at 19:22..
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Old 12-04-2012, 19:48   #13
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Worthless video for the most part. He compares a half-expanded, piece of crap Hydroshock to a fully expanded Black Talon. Some people can control a 9mm, .40 or a .45 all the same. They are all weak to me, even in hot +P loads. So given three calibers that I can control virtually the same, I choose the one that will give me the biggest wound channel. I do agree that shot placement and training with YOUR gun is the most important thing.

Last edited by WinterWizard; 12-04-2012 at 19:50..
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Old 12-04-2012, 19:55   #14
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Outstanding video! He's spot on about physiology, too.

As mentioned repeatedly, it's shot placement first.

Never been attacked by ballistic jello, don't care who says what caliber or round is best, FPS velocity makes me yawn. Seen enough GSW patients to know that shot placement is 99% of what matters. I guess analyzing the ballistics somehow leads to better guns and ammo for me. Reading or watching videos about it puts my feet to sleep.




IMHO.
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Last edited by Paul53; 12-04-2012 at 20:16..
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Old 12-04-2012, 20:12   #15
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Shot placement is usually the first thing to go out the window when the ballon goes up. The difference between shot placement at the shooting range & a gunfight is like the difference between driving to the local mall and driving in the Indy 500. Both are forms of driving but one is slightly more intense with a far greater chance of error leading to grave injury. There's also a good looking dame to give you a kiss if you win.
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Old 12-04-2012, 20:24   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Shot placement is usually the first thing to go out the window when the ballon goes up. The difference between shot placement at the shooting range & a gunfight is like the difference between driving to the local mall and driving in the Indy 500. Both are forms of driving but one is slightly more intense with a far greater chance of error leading to grave injury. There's also a good looking dame to give you a kiss if you win.
So if shot placement is iffy, weapon control and repeat shots are needed to save your bacon. As for the dame, Erika and the gals on the Glock team are nice eye candy, the other bimbos not so much. I'd want a kiss from Hitchcock45 first!
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Old 12-04-2012, 21:32   #17
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Shoot the caliber you shoot best & train, train and train
and your shot placement will be just fine.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:26   #18
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Quote:
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Some people can control a 9mm, .40 or a .45 all the same.
Some, most not.

The main point of the video, IMO, is to point out how small the critical area on the body really is and that a millimeter or two of bullet diameter is not going to matter. You either put the shot into the box or you don't.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:16   #19
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E=MCsquared. Energy is energy regardless of caliber. Way to many variables at the Terminal Balistics end to ever have a definable .....this is the one. Find what you shoot well and stick with it. Like said before. The only reason to carry a handgun is because it is not practical to carry a rifle or shotgun most of the time.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:39   #20
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Great video. It shows (in a subtle way) the superiority of the .45 ACP round. Did you see the big difference in wound channel volume for the .45 over the .40 and 9mm?
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