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Old 12-12-2012, 17:16   #276
Ruggles
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Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
Oh I'm sure of that. You reject liberty every time it is presented to you. That fact remains that you fear the private ownership of weapons such as RPG's or grenades because of the crazy thoughts in your own mind.
Good Lord man at least make rational points.

So everyone who does not agree with your wide open whatever, whoever and whenever definition of the 2nd A only does so because they harbor secret mass homicidal thoughts? So basically only crazy people disagree with you? A wee bit arrogant.....

That is the silliest single thing on this thread, and you have some pretty stiff competition for that title

Last edited by Ruggles; 12-12-2012 at 17:17..
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:22   #277
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Originally Posted by Travclem View Post
I'm always surprised by the number of pro-nanny state/anti gun/anti freedom/anti liberty people there are on GT. How could someone think that the most corrupt machine in the world knows what's best for them.

Carry on, I hope the government makes all the right decisions for you.
And I am surprised how many folks on here have no ideal or notion that it is OK and even healthy for American to disagree, differ in views and to debate and voice opinions, you know like the Founders did when writing said documents you like to quote. Hell some might even say that is pro liberty

But yeah lets go with your view that you are totally right and everyone who disagrees should just STFU and cower to your views or be called anti this and anti that
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:24   #278
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Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
Good Lord man at least make rational points.

So everyone who does not agree with your wide open whatever, whoever and whenever definition of the 2nd A only does so because they harbor secret mass homicidal thoughts? So basically only crazy people disagree with you? A wee bit arrogant.....

That is the silliest single thing on this thread, and you have some pretty stiff competition for that title
Okay, turn in your 1911. It has been decided you can only carry this now:

The Okie Corral


We couldn't let you have a dangerous piece of modern warfare still in service like a 1911. That is dangerous and used by the military.
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Last edited by Kingarthurhk; 12-12-2012 at 17:25..
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:25   #279
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
So if virtually every state court, every state appellate court, every state supreme court, every federal court, every federal appellate court, the US Supreme Court, along with every state legislature along with the US Senate and US House of Representatives all agreed that the Second Amendment does not extend the right to buy a six pack of hand grenades at Walmart, or that collectively they all seem to think that the right of people to not have to fear that there may be a land mine in that field is a higher priority than the right to buy a land mine, would that be an example of the Constitutional Republic functioning the way our founding fathers had envisioned?


I guess he will reply at some point to this. I would guess it is functioning fine when they agree with what he thinks otherwise not. It sucks when you live in society and they don't agree with you about everything.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:29   #280
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Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
And I am surprised how many folks on here have no ideal or notion that it is OK and even healthy for American to disagree, differ in views and to debate and voice opinions, you know like the Founders did when writing said documents you like to quote. Hell some might even say that is pro liberty

But yeah lets go with your view that you are totally right and everyone who disagrees should just STFU and cower to your views or be called anti this and anti that
I know what's right for me, you know what's right for you. Just because you don't think certain things should be owned by civilians by no means makes it right to ban it. If you don't personally want a machingun/SBR/Silencer/hand grenade, you don't have to don't buy one, but why should I not be able to?

BTW I own 3/4 things listed it was just a bureaucratic PITA infringement on my rights to get them.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:34   #281
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"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Wow I guess if we are going with the aforementioned thought process that any government regulation of the 2nd A is a violation of it and unconstitutional then we are in for a hell of a time applying that to the 1st A.

I can assemble peacefully whenever and wherever I want with whoever I want.....I mean there are no disclaimers saying other wise.....

I can say whatever I want whenever I want as loud and often as I want......again no disclaimers with any limits listed........

I can practice any crazy religion I can make up, with any nasty vile religious acts I want to perform again whenever and where ever I want.....no disclaimers.....

I can publish a newspaper with anything in it I want about whoever I want without any restraints.....again no disclaimers otherwise......

You SOBs better hope I don't move to your block

Yeah I like this unrestrained interpretation of things!!!!
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:37   #282
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Originally Posted by Travclem View Post
I know what's right for me, you know what's right for you. Just because you don't think certain things should be owned by civilians by no means makes it right to ban it. If you don't personally want a machingun/SBR/Silencer/hand grenade, you don't have to don't buy one, but why should I not be able to?

BTW I own 3/4 things listed it was just a bureaucratic PITA infringement on my rights to get them.
Cause you live in a society and they dictate it thru the accepted interpretation of the, COUTS, BOR & laws. Again if you want to change it and have the support of the society to do so then more power to you. Otherwise move out of said society.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:43   #283
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Good Lord man at least make rational points.

So everyone who does not agree with your wide open whatever, whoever and whenever definition of the 2nd A only does so because they harbor secret mass homicidal thoughts? So basically only crazy people disagree with you? A wee bit arrogant.....

That is the silliest single thing on this thread, and you have some pretty stiff competition for that title
Only crazy people make comments like this. Really telling that you see this as the first and only purpose for private ownership of grenades. Even though you are one crazy SOB, I would still support your right to own grenades because with freedom comes some risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruggles The Okie Corral
. Fact is that if I wanted to toss a few granades into the local mall tonight I could not. Why ? Because I have none and can't go buy some down the block. The law just helped limit my ability to commit that crime. Could I make my own? Yes but that sure takes more skill, resources and time than buying off the shelf.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:46   #284
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Okay, turn in your 1911. It has been decided you can only carry this now:

The Okie Corral


We couldn't let you have a dangerous piece of modern warfare still in service like a 1911. That is dangerous and used by the military.
And over the cliff you go......

Now what are you talking about? At least make a point please.....

Wait wait let me guess....since I don't want you to have a RPG7 I want to ban anything used by the military like ARs?

Again as a adult I can rationalize and decide case by case (or weapon by weapon) in regards to bans. It's not all or nothing.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:48   #285
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Cause you live in a society and they dictate it thru the accepted interpretation of the, COUTS, BOR & laws. Again if you want to change it and have the support of the society to do so then more power to you. Otherwise move out of said society.
That seems to be a common answer to many problems in this nation... that's it give in, tuck tail and run away! That'll fix it!
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:50   #286
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And over the cliff you go......

Now what are you talking about? At least make a point please.....

Wait wait let me guess....since I don't want you to have a RPG7 I want to ban anything used by the military like ARs?

Again as a adult I can rationalize and decide case by case (or weapon by weapon) in regards to bans. It's not all or nothing.
You are the one that stated that you want to deny everyone else the 2A right to milistary grade arms. Yet you carry one. I was merely underscoring your hypocrisy.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:50   #287
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And over the cliff you go......

Now what are you talking about? At least make a point please.....

Wait wait let me guess....since I don't want you to have a RPG7 I want to ban anything used by the military like ARs?

Again as a adult I can rationalize and decide case by case (or weapon by weapon) in regards to bans. It's not all or nothing.
Sorry but acceptance of any restriction is a step towards the next restriction and the next and the next and the next. We have seen this played out around the world and throughout history. And it's not just about arms, it's about fundamental liberties and freedoms.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:51   #288
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Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
Only crazy people make comments like this. Really telling that you see this as the first and only purpose for private ownership of grenades. Even though you are one crazy SOB, I would still support your right to own grenades because with freedom comes some risk.
?



Wow so you are using my clearly facetious example as proof I am a homicidal maniac bent on mass killings?

Soooo I guess going back to your earlier posting anybody who disagrees with your view on the 2nd A is only doing so because they harbor secret dark desire to kill innocents in mass....well no wonder you want all kinds of heavy weapon system.....you have to protect yourself from all of us (as in 100,000,000s of millions) crazy killers!

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Old 12-12-2012, 17:52   #289
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That seems to be a common answer to many problems in this nation... that's it give in, tuck tail and run away! That'll fix it!
No just the facts, you live in a society you live by the rules, attempt to change them or get out. Been like that for....well ever......America just has a better set of rules and a better way to try and change them
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:55   #290
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
You are the one that stated that you want to deny everyone else the 2A right to some milistary grade arms. Yet you carry one. I was merely underscoring your hypocrisy.
Fixed it for you. Please show me where I ever said differently.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:56   #291
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Cause you live in a society and they dictate it thru the accepted interpretation of the, COUTS, BOR & laws. Again if you want to change it and have the support of the society to do so then more power to you. Otherwise move out of said society.
Yes, sadly I do live in a pantywaisted, cry to momma, no personal responsibility society where crooked politicians buy their way into office with foodstamps and handouts. Have you taken a good look at society lately? This society needs a huge douching, if it's not too far gone already. In a few years the U.S. will be just another socialist Eurotrash cesspool if we continue down the path that "society" has set forth. But I digress.

My main point is less government is the best government. Firearms are just one of the rights infringed upon by the government. I doubt that the founders of this country had foodstamps on their mind when they gave the federal government the power to tax.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:58   #292
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Fixed it for you. Please show me where I ever said differently.
So, you should be thelast decision on what is acceptable and what is not?
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:59   #293
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?



Wow so you are using my clearly facetious example as proof I am a homicidal maniac bent on mass killings?

Soooo I guess going back to your earlier posting anybody who disagrees with your view on the 2nd A is only doing so because they harbor secret dark desire to kill innocents in mass....well no wonder you want all kinds of heavy weapon system.....you have to protect yourself from all of us (as in 100,000,000s of millions) crazy killers!

No, just you.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:08   #294
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[/SIZE]

The NFA is an infringement.

Google United State vs. Miller and educate yourself.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:23   #295
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Google United State vs. Miller and educate yourself.
It's clear that Miller ruled very narrowly, and the fact that the SBS they ruled on did have a military purpose, the court didn't know that fact.

They ruled:

United States v. Miller involved a criminal prosecution under the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA). Passed in response to public outcry over the St. Valentine's Day Massacre, the NFA requires certain types of firearms (including but not limited to fully automatic firearms and short-barreled rifles and shotguns) to be registered with the Miscellaneous Tax Unit (later to be folded into what eventually became the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, or ATF) which at the time was part of the Bureau of Internal Revenue (ancestor of today's Internal Revenue Service),[1] with a $200 tax paid at the time of registration and again if the firearm was ever sold.

Defendants Miller and Layton filed a demurrer challenging the relevant section of the National Firearms Act as an unconstitutional violation of the Second Amendment. District Court Justice Heartsill Ragon accepted the claim and dismissed the indictment, stating, "The court is of the opinion that this section is invalid in that it violates the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, U.S.C.A., providing, 'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'" Justice Ragon provided no further explanation of his reasons.[2]

The U.S Government appealed the decision and on March 30, 1939, the U.S. Supreme Court heard the case. Attorneys for the United States argued four points:
1.The NFA is intended as a revenue-collecting measure and therefore within the authority of the Department of the Treasury.
2.The defendants transported the shotgun from Oklahoma to Arkansas, and therefore used it in interstate commerce.
3.The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.
4.The "double barrel 12-gauge Stevens shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches in length, bearing identification number 76230" was never used in any militia organization.


Neither the defendants nor their legal counsel appeared at the Supreme Court. A lack of financial support and procedural irregularities prevented counsel from traveling.[3] Miller was found shot to death in April, before the decision was rendered.[4]

So, if we join a militia, then we don't need permission to buy these military grade weapons.

Here's the thing, what's to stop the court from ruling this way (as they already have with the Obamacare TAX) on anything else they fear would harm society, with a tax and/or license?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Last edited by kenpoprofessor; 12-12-2012 at 18:28..
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:23   #296
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Google United State vs. Miller and educate yourself.
I am familiar with the case.

How is the NFA not an infringement? SCOTUS or otherwise, it's still an infringement on the 2nd amendment.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:27   #297
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
Sorry but acceptance of any restriction is a step towards the next restriction and the next and the next and the next. We have seen this played out around the world and throughout history. And it's not just about arms, it's about fundamental liberties and freedoms.

Thank you!


And as far as NFA goodies, well, a tax stamp for a can is taking forevah.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:54   #298
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So, you should be thelast decision on what is acceptable and what is not?
How did you get the conclusion I thought I was the final judgement maker on anything from me saying show me where I said something I clearly did not but was being accused of saying?

For the record I am not deciding anything, any more or less than anyone else who votes in an election.
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:55   #299
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No, just you.
Well lets hope you don't do much jury duty
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Old 12-12-2012, 18:59   #300
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Yes, sadly I do live in a pantywaisted, cry to momma, no personal responsibility society where crooked politicians buy their way into office with foodstamps and handouts. Have you taken a good look at society lately? This society needs a huge douching, if it's not too far gone already. In a few years the U.S. will be just another socialist Eurotrash cesspool if we continue down the path that "society" has set forth. But I digress.

My main point is less government is the best government. Firearms are just one of the rights infringed upon by the government. I doubt that the founders of this country had foodstamps on their mind when they gave the federal government the power to tax.

I think we will survive, this country has weathered worse storms than we are in now.
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