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Old 12-12-2012, 12:18   #251
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I think from my post I have made clear that laws do not stop anything, they only help limit those violations they pertain to. Fact is that if I wanted to toss a few granades into the local mall tonight I could not. Why ? Because I have none and can't go buy some down the block. The law just helped limit my ability to commit that crime. Could I make my own? Yes but that sure takes more skill, resources and time than buying off the shelf.
Then you aren't determined enough to carry out the action you described. And in the process you are denying others that don't have thoughts of illegal activities from enjoying the ability to purchase grenades and toss them around on their property. Restricting access to the majority due to a minority is pretty audacious.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:19   #252
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[/SIZE]

The NFA is an infringement.

The SCOTUS disagrees with you.
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Old 12-12-2012, 13:13   #253
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
Then you aren't determined enough to carry out the action you described. And in the process you are denying others that don't have thoughts of illegal activities from enjoying the ability to purchase grenades and toss them around on their property. Restricting access to the majority due to a minority is pretty audacious.
I am unconvinced that the majority would rush out to buy a basket of grenades or for that matter if a majority would even vote to make the purchase of a six-pack of grenades legal for whoever might consider buying some.
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Old 12-12-2012, 13:30   #254
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I am unconvinced that the majority would rush out to buy a basket of grenades or for that matter if a majority would even vote to make the purchase of a six-pack of grenades legal for whoever might consider buying some.
Regardless of whether they will or not, saying they can't is rubbish.
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Old 12-12-2012, 13:36   #255
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Wait - if the majority actually think that leaving hand grenades to be illegal, that's rubbish?
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:21   #256
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
Then you aren't determined enough to carry out the action you described. And in the process you are denying others that don't have thoughts of illegal activities from enjoying the ability to purchase grenades and toss them around on their property. Restricting access to the majority due to a minority is pretty audacious.
Not determined enough? LOL, yeah we should go ahead and make it easy cause the determined are going to do it anyways. Hell why check any incoming containers at ports, can't check them all and the determined ones will find a way regardless. Let's just not worry about securing our borders at all, let's not even try.

And anyone (including me) who thinks they know for sure what the Founders would say regarding this issue today is full of it. They could not even agree among themselves then as they wrote these documents. I hardly think this would be any different.

Regardless you might want to start making your own cause they are not going legal anytime soon.
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Old 12-12-2012, 14:51   #257
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Wait - if the majority actually think that leaving hand grenades to be illegal, that's rubbish?
If you are in the minority that disagrees I guess it is. I think some folks on here do not support any laws regarding firearms and the like. They want the "vending machine" approach where whoever and whatever is fine.
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:11   #258
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You can get what I think is a Class III license and have your machine gun. Good for you, I just don't see me throwing my money away that fast..
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:12   #259
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Because we are.... errrr, were a Constitutional Republic which means majority does not rule nor decide in all cases. That would be a Democracy and Democracies don't last long until they fall into either a state of Fascism or Socialism. Either way it isn't about what the majority wants. It's about the rights of ALL men (women too).
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:13   #260
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You can get what I think is a Class III license and have your machine gun. Good for you, I just don't see me throwing my money away that fast..
My argument has always been that if you request a license to engage in exercising your rights then you have willfully relinquished your rights and subjugated them to the status of a privilege. And that is where the "state" gains power over the people.
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:19   #261
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
Because we are.... errrr, were a Constitutional Republic which means majority does not rule nor decide in all cases. That would be a Democracy and Democracies don't last long until they fall into either a state of Fascism or Socialism. Either way it isn't about what the majority wants. It's about the rights of ALL men (women too).
Because we get our new laws, revisions of current laws and court appointments to interpret laws thru the elective process how the majority votes is kinda important in deciding these things. Living in society kinda sucks sometimes in that way.

Are there any laws regulating firearms you support? If so which?
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:23   #262
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
My argument has always been that if you request a license to engage in exercising your rights then you have willfully relinquished your rights and subjugated them to the status of a privilege. And that is where the "state" gains power over the people.
Well the 2nd A prohibits infringement, so is a license infringement? Could be, could not be depending upon your view.

Some would say a 4473 is a form of license and thus a infringement. If that is the case then we are back to the vending machine way of selling firearms. Should we do away with the 4473 and just sell firearms like shoes?

Last edited by Ruggles; 12-12-2012 at 15:26..
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:41   #263
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I think from my post I have made clear that laws do not stop anything, they only help limit those violations they pertain to. Fact is that if I wanted to toss a few granades into the local mall tonight I could not. Why ? Because I have none and can't go buy some down the block. The law just helped limit my ability to commit that crime. Could I make my own? Yes but that sure takes more skill, resources and time than buying off the shelf.
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I do see things I fear and things I do not. But I rationalize it. I fear crime, I carry a gun because of that but I do not live like a hermit in my house afraid to go out of it because of the risk of crime.

I might fear a oppressive government, I fear a nut job going off at my local airport much more. Therefor the SA7 I might use against that oppressive government I will sacrifice the right to own so I do not have to worry nearly as much about the nut job. If you disagree fine, no problem. If you get enough people to disagree then you can change the laws, otherwise you abide by them. Simple stuff

Now somebody break out the "he who would sacrifice liberty for safety" quote.
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I think you fear what you would do with one of these things in your hands just as the anti gun crowd fears what they would do with a weapon in theirs.
I think I am right about you.
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:47   #264
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Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
Well the 2nd A prohibits infringement, so is a license infringement? Could be, could not be depending upon your view.

Some would say a 4473 is a form of license and thus a infringement. If that is the case then we are back to the vending machine way of selling firearms. Should we do away with the 4473 and just sell firearms like shoes?
If you have to get permission, it's not a right. What part of that don't you understand????

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:47   #265
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Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
Well the 2nd A prohibits infringement, so is a license infringement? Could be, could not be depending upon your view.

Some would say a 4473 is a form of license and thus a infringement. If that is the case then we are back to the vending machine way of selling firearms. Should we do away with the 4473 and just sell firearms like shoes?
Yes, used to be you could buy a pistol, rifle or shotgun in the drug, hardware or feed store or out of a magazine and have it mailed straight to your home.
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Last edited by Glock20 10mm; 12-12-2012 at 15:48..
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:55   #266
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
Because we are.... errrr, were a Constitutional Republic which means majority does not rule nor decide in all cases. That would be a Democracy and Democracies don't last long until they fall into either a state of Fascism or Socialism. Either way it isn't about what the majority wants. It's about the rights of ALL men (women too).
So if virtually every state court, every state appellate court, every state supreme court, every federal court, every federal appellate court, the US Supreme Court, along with every state legislature along with the US Senate and US House of Representatives all agreed that the Second Amendment does not extend the right to buy a six pack of hand grenades at Walmart, or that collectively they all seem to think that the right of people to not have to fear that there may be a land mine in that field is a higher priority than the right to buy a land mine, would that be an example of the Constitutional Republic functioning the way our founding fathers had envisioned?
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Old 12-12-2012, 15:59   #267
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Yes, used to be you could buy a pistol, rifle or shotgun in the drug, hardware or feed store or out of a magazine and have it mailed straight to your home.
Well I guess you could always try to enact change to allow this again. Great thing about America.
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:00   #268
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Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
Well the 2nd A prohibits infringement, so is a license infringement? Could be, could not be depending upon your view.

Some would say a 4473 is a form of license and thus a infringement. If that is the case then we are back to the vending machine way of selling firearms. Should we do away with the 4473 and just sell firearms like shoes?
I don't believe you understand what a right is.
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:03   #269
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If you have to get permission, it's not a right. What part of that don't you understand????

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde
Good luck with that line of thought on this. Again your definition of the 2nd A is not everyone's else's. Amazing how the founders foresaw this and put in processes to address it. Of course we could just call you every time there is a question on it.......
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:06   #270
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I don't believe you understand what a right is.
Yeah that must be it. Or it could be your lack of ability to understand that not everyone agrees with your interpretation of the 2nd A. Imagine that, not everyone agreeing with you......
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:09   #271
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I think I am right about you.
And as I read more and more of your post your opinion about me means less to less to me.
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:12   #272
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I'm always surprised by the number of pro-nanny state/anti gun/anti freedom/anti liberty people there are on GT. How could someone think that the most corrupt machine in the world knows what's best for them.

Carry on, I hope the government makes all the right decisions for you.
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:15   #273
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Although I agree with the OP somewhat, I am a little torn on whether or not I'd want fully automatic weapons sold to the general public, the same as any other guns (that is what NFA is correct? I don't know much about all that). Idk, I really don't know where to stand on that. I'd sure as hell get a slide fire stock if I could justify buying one. First of all they are like $300 and I can't afford to shoot 30 rounds off in a few seconds. Plus there's nowhere near where I live that I could shoot that. I do believe fully automatic weapons should be made available to the public if that's what they want. Just torn on whether or not I think the government red tape is a good or bad thing.

Last edited by Chris Brines; 12-12-2012 at 16:22..
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Old 12-12-2012, 16:19   #274
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And as I read more and more of your post your opinion about me means less to less to me.
Oh I'm sure of that. You reject liberty every time it is presented to you. That fact remains that you fear the private ownership of weapons such as RPG's or grenades because of the crazy thoughts in your own mind.
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Old 12-12-2012, 17:04   #275
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The SCOTUS disagrees with you.
The SCOTUS also says it is illegal to grow personal crops without permission whether you cross state lines or not. They say a lot of things. Once, they said that Black people should be seperate from White People. Plessy V. Fergusson.

So, if they decided you needed to be castrated tomorrow, would you be good with that too?
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