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Old 12-17-2012, 19:24   #1
Gary Slider
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Must Read on Stoping School Shootings.

http://www.policeone.com/active-shoo...emy-is-denial/

Dave Grossman states it like it is. A must Read!
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Old 12-17-2012, 20:56   #2
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Thank you for sharing that! Definitely a great read!
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Old 12-17-2012, 21:08   #3
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Excellent article! Thanks for sharing. If there had been an officer or two stationed at Sandy Hook, I whole-heartedly believe this tragedy could have been prevented. A trained first-responder would have seen someone coming towards the school in armor and carrying guns a definitive threat. This "false security" of cameras, security systems, and alarms has got to go.
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Old 12-17-2012, 21:24   #4
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We need to:

Offer a bill to allow teachers, if they get training, to pack a gun.

Offer a bill to allow institutionalization of insane people.

Offer a bill to give life sentences to those conspiring to kill anyone at a school or mall.

Offer a bill to allow nation wide recognition of any state CCW.

Offer a bill to give jail time to anyone who sees a blog or post threatening to kill people and failing to report it to the police.

See there are plenty of things the community can do without destroying the Bill of Rights!

Deaf
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Old 12-17-2012, 21:29   #5
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http://www.policeone.com/active-shoo...emy-is-denial/

‘I want a trained fire professional on site. I want a fire hat, I want a fire uniform, I want a fire badge. But! No fire extinguishers in this building. No fire hoses. The hat, the badge, the uniform — that will keep us safe — but we have no need for fire extinguishers.’

i like this.
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Old 12-17-2012, 21:43   #6
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Dave Grossman is spot on as usual!!
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:30   #7
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Thanks Gary. I hope the upcoming legislative debate on gun law takes into consideration some of the sensible things Mr. Grossman talks about. Our schools are soft targets for terrorism, so any armed security that can be added is a step in the right direction. All that "gun free zones" seem to do is flash a neon sign that says, "you can shoot a lot of people here before anyone can stop you."
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:28   #8
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Follow the Israeli model. Our situations are rapidly becoming quite similar but for different reasons. Over there it's mindless Islamic Jihad, over here it's just mindless sociopaths.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 12-18-2012 at 05:29..
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
We need to:

Offer a bill to allow teachers, if they get training, to pack a gun.

Offer a bill to allow institutionalization of insane people.

Offer a bill to give life sentences to those conspiring to kill anyone at a school or mall.

Offer a bill to allow nation wide recognition of any state CCW.

Offer a bill to give jail time to anyone who sees a blog or post threatening to kill people and failing to report it to the police.

See there are plenty of things the community can do without destroying the Bill of Rights!

Deaf
We need to . . . do absolutely nothing. Most of the problem with this country today is a history of people panicking and changing laws to try to counter every event after the horse has left the barn. Get a grip. School mass murders in America go back to the beginning of school in America and they happen all over the world. What we need is a bill to get people to quit watching 24-hour news networks and get back to reality.
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Last edited by Bren; 12-18-2012 at 05:47..
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:48   #10
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Follow the Israeli model. Our situations are rapidly becoming quite similar but for different reasons. Over there it's mindless Islamic Jihad, over here it's just mindless sociopaths.
We will never take advice from the Israeli's we're to smart to listen to them. When it was suggest we use the Israeli model for airport security did we take their advice. No instead we created another giant gov. nightmare that cost billions to run and has never caught anyone except a grandma that forgot to leave her killer depends at home. Let each state and community do what is best for itself with blessing of the Feds rather than Washington creating another giant nightmare. I can just visualize the dept. of educ. creating the FSP (Fed. School Police).
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:52   #11
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
We need to . . . do absolutely nothing. Most of the problem with this country today is a history of people panicking and changing laws to try to counter every event after the horse has left the barn. Get a grip. School mass murders in America go back to the beginning of school in America and they happen all over the world. What we need is a bill to get people to quit watching 24-hour news networks and get back to reality.
If a semi truck crashed into a school bus and killed a bunch of kids would we be reacting this way.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:51   #12
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Bren
One of the few times we agree! But I do like the idea of having trained teachers to be able to carry. This does two thing -gets rid of a gunfree zone provides instant security within the school until first responders can get there. The soldiers to teacher program has taken alot of ex mil and put them into the classroom. Already well trained and I'm sure willing to be those armed teachers!
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Old 12-18-2012, 13:00   #13
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Perhaps one of his other books, Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill : A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence, would also be prudent to recommend to concerned parents, teachers, law enforcement, law makers, mental health professionals, clergy, etc.

Desensitizing kids against committing acts of horrific violence in a video game environment, or being unduly influenced by the gore-fests being produced by film makers, can't be anything to worry about ... right?

I like many Sci-Fi & Action Movies as much as the next adult, but I also understand it's fiction & fantasy. I also realize such things ought not to be glorified or exalted.
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Old 12-18-2012, 15:47   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaf smith View Post
we need to:

Offer a bill to allow teachers, if they get training, to pack a gun.

Offer a bill to allow institutionalization of insane people.

Offer a bill to give life sentences to those conspiring to kill anyone at a school or mall.

Offer a bill to allow nation wide recognition of any state ccw.

Offer a bill to give jail time to anyone who sees a blog or post threatening to kill people and failing to report it to the police.

See there are plenty of things the community can do without destroying the bill of rights!

Deaf
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Old 12-18-2012, 17:21   #15
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That was truly a GREAT article.

All the Best,
D. White
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Old 12-19-2012, 18:56   #16
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Here in VT any non-felon adult can CCW - no permits issued. I am going to volunteer in my local high school.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:06   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaf Smith View Post
We need to:

Offer a bill to allow teachers, if they get training, to pack a gun.

Agreed, but good luck getting most teachers to carry. Even those willing to will probably stop after a while because it's too much of a burden. Cops have the same thing after a while.

Even if a bill passed that allowed teachers to carry, I doubt it would take away the school's right to still not allow teachers to carry. Schools would likely still have the option of whether they would let teachers carry or not.

Offer a bill to allow institutionalization of insane people.

Dangerously insane (with proven behavior and patterns), maybe, but that would be hard to determine. If the patterns are there, then mental retardation wouldn't be a factor unless determining understanding of right and wrong. And Sandy Hook never displayed any prior violence.

By institutionalization, I imagine you mean put them in housing? Seems like a lot of freedom to take away for somebody who's only "crime" is being mentally retarded.

Offer a bill to give life sentences to those conspiring to kill anyone at a school or mall.

Burden of proof would be showing that they were actually going to do it. Hard to get a life sentence for something they haven't done, just planned to do.

Offer a bill to allow nation wide recognition of any state CCW.

Would take away state's rights, and IL would be SOL. <---could also be in red

Offer a bill to give jail time to anyone who sees a blog or post threatening to kill people and failing to report it to the police.

"I didn't think it was serious" would probably get them off the hook.

Again, where's the crime here?

See there are plenty of things the community can do without destroying the Bill of Rights!

Actually, a lot of these would be violating other aspects. See Red.

Deaf
While on paper some of your ideas make sense, and some of them I like, I don't see them happening.

I've been playing a lot of devil's advocate with myself lately, mostly to figure out what some of the counter arguments might be.
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Last edited by golls17; 12-20-2012 at 08:10..
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:09   #18
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If a semi truck crashed into a school bus and killed a bunch of kids would we be reacting this way.
For those that are talking about Grossman, also realize he talks about the human element being the universal phobia.

What this entails is the fact that accidents happen and people accept them. A semi truck crashing and killing a bunch of kids, if a true accident, wouldn't be covered because it was not an intentional act of violence. If the semi driver was intoxicated or intentionally caused it, I'm betting it still would get national news. I realize you're trying to draw a comparison that they wouldn't be crying out to ban semis, but again playing devil's advocate, I don't think that argument holds water.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:11   #19
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Here in VT any non-felon adult can CCW - no permits issued. I am going to volunteer in my local high school.
Does VT allow you to carry in schools?

What are you going to volunteer to do?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:16   #20
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Here is another thread along similar lines: http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1457740.
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