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Old 12-04-2012, 21:54   #126
bucksnort1959
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Originally Posted by jdavionic View Post
Back Off, man! I pay your salary!!!
Carry Issues
That makes a whole lot of sense. Guy getting scanned before entering a sporting event. Nice analogy
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Old 12-04-2012, 21:56   #127
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Sorry for your trouble,But Alcohol & firearms are never a good partner.? Hope you learned an important yet costly lesson from this incident.?
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Old 12-04-2012, 21:59   #128
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Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
So lack of sleep, smell of alcoholic beverage on breath, and likely bloodshot eyes (from lack of sleep) = several clues of impairment upon first glance by a trained officer.



Likely the same route you've taken dozens of times if you've lived in that area, so how could you not know the speed limit? Not buying it.



So an officer who observes possible signs of impairment asks you about firearms and you respond in the affirmative. The reasonable actions by the officer is to take you out of the vehicle and place you in handcuffs. This is done every day. If an officer has a reasonable belief someone may be armed/dangerous, they can take steps necessary to protect himself, the person, and anyone else. Obviously you're armed and a reasonable person could come to the conclusion that you might be dangerous if it turns out you're impaired. The DUI investigation is still ongoing so the officer does what he feels his necessary to continue the investigation SAFELY (i.e. disarm you).



One of two things happened. Either they decided to arrest for DUI or possession firearm while impaired (or both); OR they placed you in the vehicle to specifically retrieve the weapon. Either way, both searches are legal. Search incident to arrest to remove the firearm because it's an element of the crime or a terry search for weapons within your reach in the vehicle. Obviously since you told them you were armed they were going to retrieve it after placing you in handcuffs.

Just because someone has a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of .012 does not mean they're not impaired. I've been a DUI instructor for several years and I've seen plenty of people impaired below .08%. This doesn't even include the possibility of drugs in the blood. I recall arresting a female who was totally wasted and plowed into a vehicle. Her BAC was .03%, but the amount of xanex in her system was huge.

What many people don't understand is that .08% is the "per se" limit, which means that the state (in trial) PRESUMES the person to be impaired at .08% or greater. The District Attorney does not have to prove the "impairment" element in trial if you're .08% or greater.

Regardless of the outcome of the trial, it's pretty apparent from the fact pattern so far that all of the actions taken by the officers were reasonable. If an attorney decides to file a state or federal 1983 claim with this fact pattern, they would be lucky not to be sanctioned by the court for filing something so frivolous. With the fact pattern provided I guarantee it would never make it past summary judgment (in favor of the officers of course).
Did you also get a law degree or did you just do the 60 credit thing to get in?
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Old 12-04-2012, 22:00   #129
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Sorry for your trouble,But Alcohol & firearms are never a good partner.? Hope you learned an important yet costly lesson from this incident.?
What exactly is an
"ARMED CURRIER"?

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Old 12-04-2012, 22:07   #130
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Actually my demeanor was nothing but pleasant and truthful. i don't argue in the dark with people I don't know that have guns and other weapons at their disposal.
I was truthful for where I was all day but they didn't seem to believe me. Guess they're used to dealing with liars and thieves all day.
Funny how cops that have posted, without seeing the vid or transcripts can come to that conclusion.
I do have respect for decent cops but this summer at an event I attended, there was a married cop that went next door and banged some drunk divorced chick. Guy that was staying with me also held him with respect too until this. He's a first responder that I hold respect for.
We'd like to see both video and transcripts.
Why bring up something and tell half of the story.


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Old 12-04-2012, 22:13   #131
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Google his name, or kwikrnu, his screen name. Y'all might hit it off.

Is Glockdude1 afraid of law abiding people with guns?

Let me see...which smilie is most appropriate...

... no, not really.

... no, not that either.

... close, but no.

... noooo.

... YEAH, that's it baby!!!
Ok
Didn't read all about him but he appears to have been on a deliberate mission for a confrontation of some sort with people of authority.

Where is anything similar about me and this Leonard guy as to how we came about being contacted by cops????

did I wave my pistol out the window as I went by to elicit a response?
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Old 12-04-2012, 22:33   #132
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As for drinking and driving myself. No. Never. Even if it's the good fish fry place down the street. Having been a volunteer firefighter in the past, I've seen enough broken bodies and tragedies caused by drinking and driving to last me a lifetime.
Okay
Let's take a poll
Anybody that's consumed alcohol within 4 hours of driving a motor vehicle raise their hand.
This includes auto, trucks, snowmobiles, boats and yes, lawn tractors operated within the right of way of a road, highway.
Bet it'll get real quiet around here.
Do you feel you were impaired?

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Old 12-04-2012, 22:34   #133
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We'd like to see both video and transcripts.
Why bring up something and tell half of the story.


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Hold your horses Bronco Billy.
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Old 12-04-2012, 22:41   #134
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After a sleepless night tending to your child, you worked a long day. You and a buddy go out to get something to eat and a couple of drinks, on with your meal, one just before leaving. You are tired and relaxed after the meal and drinks.

A couple miles from the restaurant, not paying attention to your speed, you are stopped for speeding. The Milwaukee PD officer notices alcohol on your breath. He asks if you have any firearms. You say yes. He asks if it is loaded. You respond in some manner that it is.

The officer now has someone he believes is impaired by alcohol in possession of a firearm.

He, and perhaps a second officer by now, remove you from the car, handcuff you, remove your firearm and place you in the backseat of a police car.

They then commence a search incident to your arrest.

After some period of time they take you in and blood is drawn. That reveals you have a BAC of .012. How long after being stop did they draw blood?

Is that pretty close to what happened so far?

You say, "...only .012, well under .08." A couple of drinks may not affect you under normal circumstances. However, you had little sleep the night before and had a long workday. Your body's alcohol tolerance was probably lower than it would be were you rested.

Did the arresting officer describe your appearance when he stopped you in his report? Your face may have reflected that lack of sleep/couple of drinks combination. Did they process you, take your picture? That would be interesting to see.

Now, it is also interesting that you threw in the, "...find a roach your kid's friend dropped the night before when your kid had the car." Is that a fact in your story, or did you just throw that in to spice things up?

You said, "...my stuff was "stolen" from my possession..." Was it returned to you when you were released?

Were you even charged with anything other than speeding?

There are other conclusions that may be drawn from your posts, but that can wait.

Looking forward to your response.
Guess you didn't see that the events as depicted weren't applicable completely in my case. Not sure if it was a slip in comprehension as other posters have admitted.
It was in a response to some guy in Beer City to imagine a possible scenario he might be familiar with. Sometimes the Pollacks there need different coloring books.
As to finding a roach, it ties into illegal search and seizure in a scenario.
If you were a cop and this happened to your bud, what would you advise?
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Old 12-04-2012, 22:45   #135
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I amazed at all the posts from cops on the legality of items depicted. I didn't realize you guys also got law degrees. I always assumed you were just evidence gathers.
Any real,bar lawyer want to chime in. Or do they prefer a different kind of weapon than this forum?
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Old 12-04-2012, 22:51   #136
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Lmao!

You should try following established case law instead of your hill jack interpretation of it.


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Old 12-04-2012, 23:00   #137
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Lmao!

You should try following established case law instead of your hill jack interpretation of it.


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ok
Interpret this

However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. . “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖

At what point as an agent of the state, would you determine an individual to be in violation?

Hilljack?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HillJack
Not here. sorry of where you live that you have to deal with peeps like that.
I was in Cinncy once, Tucky on 75 in Sept. of this year. Have no real need to revisit the area.
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Old 12-04-2012, 23:04   #138
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ok
Interpret this

However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. . “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖

At what point as an agent of the state, would you determine an individual to be in violation?

Hilljack?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HillJack
Not here. sorry of where you live that you have to deal with peeps like that.
I was in Cinncy once, Tucky on 75 in Sept. of this year. Have no real need to revisit the area.
You're all over the place.


Lets see what you have an well work from there. I don't like to use one sided conversations. Lets see what those officers have to say.


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Old 12-04-2012, 23:06   #139
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You're all over the place.


Lets see what you have an well work from there. I don't like to use one sided conversations. Lets see what those officers have to say.


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You've been around the block, spit it out.
Let's hear your interpretation.
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Old 12-04-2012, 23:35   #140
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You've been around the block, spit it out.
Let's hear your interpretation.
YouTube accounts are free. Go ahead and upload yours.

You'll be a celebrity.

When the officer asked where your weapon was did you have him hold your beer?


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Old 12-04-2012, 23:48   #141
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You're all over the place.




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Just answering questions posed to me honestly. What up homes?
answer the question on where you'd interpret my state's law on intox and weapons. It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
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Old 12-04-2012, 23:54   #142
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Just answering questions posed to me honestly. What up homes?
answer the question on where you'd interpret my state's law on intox and weapons. It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
Why would I interpret another states laws? Only the Ohio Revised code matters to me.

You're right. I don't have a whole lot of experience testifying in OVI trials but lawyers do.


You were intoxicated with a weapon. Got caught. How's that working out for ya ?


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Old 12-04-2012, 23:55   #143
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It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
Seriously?

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Old 12-05-2012, 00:00   #144
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I'd really like to see a copy of your arrest report.


You were arrested. With due cause. I don't see where anything in your story leads to a civil rights lawsuit.




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Old 12-05-2012, 00:18   #145
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I amazed at all the posts from cops on the legality of items depicted. I didn't realize you guys also got law degrees. I always assumed you were just evidence gathers.
Any real,bar lawyer want to chime in. Or do they prefer a different kind of weapon than this forum?
As I suspected, little to no respect for LE. Police Officers go through extensive arrest, search and seizure training so we don't violate people's rights and don't get evidence thrown out, so yeah, we do know the law.
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Old 12-05-2012, 00:37   #146
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You were intoxicated with a weapon. Got caught. How's that working out for ya ?



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I wasn't arrested in Ohio so what?
You're making a statement or opinion based on what?
My posting of the jury instructions are very clear.
What's so hard about telling me your interpretation of what it means?
You don't have to be a lawyer, we're all jurists in the legal system
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Old 12-05-2012, 00:43   #147
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As I suspected, little to no respect for LE. Police Officers go through extensive arrest, search and seizure training so we don't violate people's rights and don't get evidence thrown out, so yeah, we do know the law.
Good for you. I'm sure you're in the percentage that is made out for a peace officer. Then there's the % that slide along.
What's your interpretation of the jury instructs?
and as to whether you've ever consumed 4 hours before operating.
It's all right
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:25   #148
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Level of intoxication is hard to quantify, especially for those who don't explain it regularly. Sure you have BAC, SFSTs, and the totality of the circumstance.

Some questions to consider. How buzzed should a surgeon be while cutting you open? How about the pilot flying your family on vacation? And what about your childrens teachers or school bus drivers? I would same that same level applies to handling a firearm.

My thoughts are these. If your going out and know that you plan on drinking leave the gun. If you really feel that gun is necessary, then skip the drinks....you gotta be on your A game for combat. Its kind of scary that you want to debate this at all.

Its a weapon, not a drinking buddy.

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:39   #149
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Just answering questions posed to me honestly.
No, you are not. You have not given a direct answer to any question put to you.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:42   #150
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Putting aside the incident details, assuming it actually happened. You do understand that, like it or not, you represent gun owners. Throughout this thread (even starting with the original post/title), you've gone out of your way to be as abrasive and confrontational to LE as possible. Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps your attitude may be contributing to the terse responses here and possibly in the incident itself? Can you appreciate the job that these people in LE do? Just look in threads in the cop section. Aren't you tired of seeing officer after officer posted as another fallen hero? I am not a LEO, never have been. I know some good people who are and have heard the stories of the daily barrage of crap that they deal with. To see someone like you who,whether I like or not, represents gun owners and interacts with LEOs in the manner that you do...well, I find it disgusting.

If an officer behaved poorly, sure file a complaint and take it up with his superiors. However you've chosen to take it much further. Aside from apparently seeking financial compensation, you're hell bent on attacking an entire profession. It's very unfortunate that you've chosen the tact for dealing with the situation. Unfortunately for the rest of us that work hard at portraying a positive image of responsible gun owners,actions like yours tend to nullify a great deal of positive actions of others. Perhaps someday you'll mature to the point where you can see how disgraceful you've behaved throughout the ordeal.
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