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Old 12-04-2012, 11:13   #101
Gunnut 45/454
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bucksnort1959
So FL lets you have alcohol while CCWing? Thats a gaurenteed loss of CCW here in ID!
I see epic fail here! One you broke the law (Speeding) May have broke the law again while carring and having a beer? So what makes you think your going to prevail in the civil suit? You should save your money clean up your act and don't speed !
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:18   #102
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bucksnort1959
So FL...
bucksnort is in WI.

ca survivor is in FL.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:09   #103
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There are usually consequences to stupid actions.

Drinking a beer while carrying and before operating a motor vehicle = questionably stupid

Breaking traffic law by speeding after doing so = stupid

His actions resulted in consequences. But of course it is easier to blame the officer aka barney aka jack booted thug aka whatever else he decides to call him. However, the officer did not force the alcohol into his system, nor did he cause him to break the traffic law. All the officer did was make a judgement call based upon what he smelled, and encountered and took a possibly safety risk off the road thus keeping the law abiding citizens that were on the road safe. I am pulling for "Barney" on this one.

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Old 12-04-2012, 12:21   #104
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They are here, some just lurking... They'll chime in when it is time.

Huh?
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:27   #105
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Huh?
No, no, no...you're too early!!!! Go back behind the curtain!!
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:31   #106
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
bucksnort1959
So FL lets you have alcohol while CCWing? Thats a gaurenteed loss of CCW here in ID!
I see epic fail here! One you broke the law (Speeding) May have broke the law again while carring and having a beer? So what makes you think your going to prevail in the civil suit? You should save your money clean up your act and don't speed !
Down here we can be ****faced drunk and carry a gun. Hell, I do it all the time! Freedom tastes good, my friend. Tastes like whiskey.
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Old 12-04-2012, 13:20   #107
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I find this thread most boring.

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Old 12-04-2012, 13:27   #108
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Ok
Let's put a similar scenario out there poster.
This is not anywhere what I experienced.
You had a long night the night before because your kid had an earache and kept you up most of the night.
You dragged you but out of bed and put a long day in.
Your wife calls and says it all right for you and your bud from work to go out for dinner. You have a beer, Jack and Coke or whatever and have dinner. After your bud says "I'll buy one at the bar. You're somewhere around .012 at this point depending on weight and other factors. I see you're from Wisconsin so this is nothing peeps do there on a regular basis on a Friday fish or Saturday prime rib outing.
Have you REALLY been drinking?
You get in your car and a couple of miles away you aren't paying attention you're going over the speed limit and the cherries come on.Say you're in Waukesha and not at 35th and North so being a whitey you're not out of your element.
You do have a loaded pistol with you because most sane peeps know an unloaded gun is useless when micro seconds count and you have a CCW and are pretty proficient with it. You got that right back last year and are exercising it.Not like a FIB that gets out once a year and shoots Bossy.
That last drink is still on your breath when Barney approaches your car. Are you drunk just because you had a drink?
Are you guilty of something because in Socialist Brew City minions have no need to go armed and the cop has some kinda problem that you have a loaded gun and maybe he's envious of your car or the address on your license.
Barney advises you that you were speeding and you think it's over.
Are you a past drinker, alky?
They're the worst next to ex smokers.
Ever go out for dinner, have a beer or 2 and drive home?
Ever been in deer camp and your buds get out of bed and go out in the woods with lingering alcohol in there system?

Should we have check points to catch the fish fry 2 beer drinker?
Do you support 0 tolerance as they do in Socialist countries in Europe?
Have you read the jury instructions for your state in which it spells out at what point you are in violation of your CCW?
Do you understand them?
Do you mind Barney going through your personnel belongings on a "hunch" or fishing expo?
What if they slap the cuffs on you and they search the car and find a roach your kid's friend dropped the night before when your kid had the car.
now you have a problem. but you're only .012, well under .08
I'm not upset about a moving violation.
I'm concerned that besides the ticket for speeding, my stuff was "stolen" from my possession, cuffed and stuffed just because maybe Barney thought he was gonna get an atta boy from his boss.
Talk to some kids in they're 20's and younger and see how Barney likes to hassle them, give out $450 DC tickets like candy because they know hardly anybody is going to hire an attorney at say 1K to fight a $450 ticket
Three drinks is a .012 in your experience?

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Old 12-04-2012, 13:43   #109
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Three drinks is a .012 in your experience?

I only see 1 drink before the offer of a second. So, 2 before heading home.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire

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Old 12-04-2012, 14:42   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye16 View Post
I only see 1 drink before the offer of a second. So, 2 before heading home.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Nice edit. Maybe we can all work on our reading comprehension?

Beer, comma, Jack and Coke, or whatever. Two drinks. I read into the buy you a beer as a third.

I'll admit I gave up on the rest of the post content at that point because I have an appreciation for paragraphs and sentence breaks.

Regardless, a Jack and Coke and beer, depending on size and the metabolism of the OP, will bring upon a higher BrAC than a .012 in most circumstances depending on the time frame and such.

There are other factors that go into impaired driving anyway. Like fatigue for example. DUI need not present a BrAC of .08 or more just to substantiate impairment. DUI per se... sure. But not DUI.

Back to how this was all worthy of a 1983 suit.
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Someone brought that up at a shooting I was involved in. I said he should have stopped. They said "what about Garner v. Tennessee."? I told them, " his name ain't Garner and we ain't in Tennessee!"

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Old 12-04-2012, 15:02   #111
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This thread is like a train wreck...

...but the train just hit something and stopped and I keep waiting to see an interesting train wreck, because the potential is there, but nothing is happening.

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Old 12-04-2012, 15:04   #112
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You and a buddy go out to get something to eat and a couple of drinks, on with your meal, one just before leaving. You are tired and relaxed after the meal and drinks.
So lack of sleep, smell of alcoholic beverage on breath, and likely bloodshot eyes (from lack of sleep) = several clues of impairment upon first glance by a trained officer.

Quote:
A couple miles from the restaurant, not paying attention to your speed, you are stopped for speeding.
Likely the same route you've taken dozens of times if you've lived in that area, so how could you not know the speed limit? Not buying it.

Quote:
The Milwaukee PD officer notices alcohol on your breath. He asks if you have any firearms. You say yes. He asks if it is loaded. You respond in some manner that it is.
So an officer who observes possible signs of impairment asks you about firearms and you respond in the affirmative. The reasonable actions by the officer is to take you out of the vehicle and place you in handcuffs. This is done every day. If an officer has a reasonable belief someone may be armed/dangerous, they can take steps necessary to protect himself, the person, and anyone else. Obviously you're armed and a reasonable person could come to the conclusion that you might be dangerous if it turns out you're impaired. The DUI investigation is still ongoing so the officer does what he feels his necessary to continue the investigation SAFELY (i.e. disarm you).

Quote:
They then commence a search incident to your arrest.
One of two things happened. Either they decided to arrest for DUI or possession firearm while impaired (or both); OR they placed you in the vehicle to specifically retrieve the weapon. Either way, both searches are legal. Search incident to arrest to remove the firearm because it's an element of the crime or a terry search for weapons within your reach in the vehicle. Obviously since you told them you were armed they were going to retrieve it after placing you in handcuffs.

Just because someone has a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of .012 does not mean they're not impaired. I've been a DUI instructor for several years and I've seen plenty of people impaired below .08%. This doesn't even include the possibility of drugs in the blood. I recall arresting a female who was totally wasted and plowed into a vehicle. Her BAC was .03%, but the amount of xanex in her system was huge.

What many people don't understand is that .08% is the "per se" limit, which means that the state (in trial) PRESUMES the person to be impaired at .08% or greater. The District Attorney does not have to prove the "impairment" element in trial if you're .08% or greater.

Regardless of the outcome of the trial, it's pretty apparent from the fact pattern so far that all of the actions taken by the officers were reasonable. If an attorney decides to file a state or federal 1983 claim with this fact pattern, they would be lucky not to be sanctioned by the court for filing something so frivolous. With the fact pattern provided I guarantee it would never make it past summary judgment (in favor of the officers of course).
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Old 12-04-2012, 16:49   #113
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So lack of sleep, smell of alcoholic beverage on breath, and likely bloodshot eyes (from lack of sleep) = several clues of impairment upon first glance by a trained officer.



Likely the same route you've taken dozens of times if you've lived in that area, so how could you not know the speed limit? Not buying it.



So an officer who observes possible signs of impairment asks you about firearms and you respond in the affirmative. The reasonable actions by the officer is to take you out of the vehicle and place you in handcuffs. This is done every day. If an officer has a reasonable belief someone may be armed/dangerous, they can take steps necessary to protect himself, the person, and anyone else. Obviously you're armed and a reasonable person could come to the conclusion that you might be dangerous if it turns out you're impaired. The DUI investigation is still ongoing so the officer does what he feels his necessary to continue the investigation SAFELY (i.e. disarm you).



One of two things happened. Either they decided to arrest for DUI or possession firearm while impaired (or both); OR they placed you in the vehicle to specifically retrieve the weapon. Either way, both searches are legal. Search incident to arrest to remove the firearm because it's an element of the crime or a terry search for weapons within your reach in the vehicle. Obviously since you told them you were armed they were going to retrieve it after placing you in handcuffs.

Just because someone has a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of .012 does not mean they're not impaired. I've been a DUI instructor for several years and I've seen plenty of people impaired below .08%. This doesn't even include the possibility of drugs in the blood. I recall arresting a female who was totally wasted and plowed into a vehicle. Her BAC was .03%, but the amount of xanex in her system was huge.

What many people don't understand is that .08% is the "per se" limit, which means that the state (in trial) PRESUMES the person to be impaired at .08% or greater. The District Attorney does not have to prove the "impairment" element in trial if you're .08% or greater.

Regardless of the outcome of the trial, it's pretty apparent from the fact pattern so far that all of the actions taken by the officers were reasonable. If an attorney decides to file a state or federal 1983 claim with this fact pattern, they would be lucky not to be sanctioned by the court for filing something so frivolous. With the fact pattern provided I guarantee it would never make it past summary judgment (in favor of the officers of course).
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:25   #114
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Really? This would tend to say you can't be in a BAR!!! So unless you get liquired up at home it's a NO!
790.06 (12) License to Carry Concealed Weapon or Firearm
Prohibatives palces
 any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;


Carry in Restaurants That Serve Alcohol
YES
Note: A “YES” above means you can carry into places like described below. “NO” means you can’t. Handgunlaw.us definition of “Restaurant Carry” is carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Places like Friday’s. Chili’s or Red Lobster. This may or may not mean the bar or the bar area of a restaurant. But you can carry your firearm into a restaurant that serves alcohol and sit and eat without consuming. Handgunlaw.us recommends you not sit at the Bar or in the Bar area of such restaurants. In some states it is illegal to be in the Bar area of such restaurants. Handgunlaw.us believes you should never consume alcohol when carrying your firearm. In some states it is illegal to take even one drink while carrying a firearm. If you want further info on carrying in places that serve alcohol check your state laws.
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:40   #115
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This thread is like a train wreck...

...but the train just hit something and stopped and I keep waiting to see an interesting train wreck, because the potential is there, but nothing is happening.

wait for it....wait for it....
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:44   #116
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[QUOTE=bucksnort1959;19690643]I was asked if my concealed was loaded. pretty stupid cop and the impending civil rights violation suit will maybe edumacate him.]

Location? County of arrest and case number? Maybe someone in your area can complete a Freedom of Information Request, so we can get more information.
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:51   #117
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I have to work during the day to support the rest of you slackers
Back Off, man! I pay your salary!!!
Carry Issues
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Old 12-04-2012, 18:26   #118
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Google his name, or kwikrnu, his screen name. Y'all might hit it off.

Is Glockdude1 afraid of law abiding people with guns?

Let me see...which smilie is most appropriate...

... no, not really.

... no, not that either.

... close, but no.

... noooo.

... YEAH, that's it baby!!!
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Old 12-04-2012, 18:51   #119
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Rambo is spot on with FL law. Though you can not sit in the bar area of a chilis you can sit at a table and drink as much as you want and CC. The law does say that you can not drink and have your weapon 'readily accessable' as defined as in your hand but it can be in your holster and you can drink away.

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Old 12-04-2012, 20:36   #120
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John rambo

Really? This would tend to say you can't be in a BAR!!! So unless you get liquired up at home it's a NO!
790.06 (12) License to Carry Concealed Weapon or Firearm
Prohibatives palces
 any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;


Carry in Restaurants That Serve Alcohol
YES
Note: A “YES” above means you can carry into places like described below. “NO” means you can’t. Handgunlaw.us definition of “Restaurant Carry” is carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Places like Friday’s. Chili’s or Red Lobster. This may or may not mean the bar or the bar area of a restaurant. But you can carry your firearm into a restaurant that serves alcohol and sit and eat without consuming. Handgunlaw.us recommends you not sit at the Bar or in the Bar area of such restaurants. In some states it is illegal to be in the Bar area of such restaurants. Handgunlaw.us believes you should never consume alcohol when carrying your firearm. In some states it is illegal to take even one drink while carrying a firearm. If you want further info on carrying in places that serve alcohol check your state laws.
Okay, and that has anything to do with what I said, HOW?

You can get ****faced in a restaurant. You can get ****faced at a pool hall. You can get ****faced at some clubs depending on the layout. You can get ****faced at an event.

Next time, do some thinking before you look for an argument. I don't need some out-of-stater trying to educate ME on my state's laws.
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