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Old 12-06-2012, 00:55   #201
bucksnort1959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golls17 View Post



True, in WI even open carrying, once in a vehicle, is defined as concealed. This is why before we had CCW, you couldn't carry in a vehicle. Had to unload and store the firearm.



In WI, a firearm in a vehicle is considered concealed, whether it's in plain sight or not.

I think you better do so reading as the laws have changed in the last year.
You are allowed to have a loaded pistol in PLAIN VIEW without a CCW license in your vehicle.
You are allowed to have an uncased, unloaded long gun anywhere in the car. I could mount a shotty holder up front. Just so it's unloaded.
You are not allowed to have an uncased, loaded or not pistol within the driver;s control, concealed without a CCW.
I understand your not being up on the changes.
You aren't by chance the famous Milwaukkee pizza delivery boy that shot the robber that started the movement for CCW in WI are you?
The one that got his gun back in a thousand pieces and none of the parts fit back together?

Last edited by bucksnort1959; 12-06-2012 at 00:55..
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:01   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketyt View Post
Hope justice prevails and you learn a valuable lesson - maybe others will learn from your example as well (the only positive here, IMHO).

He won't learn the lesson. He will come away from this even more bitter towards law enforcement than he was before. Before a person can learn a lesson, they must be open to the idea that there is a lesson to be learned at all. He does not seem to be one of those people.
Maybe someone else will learn from this story, but I like to think that everyone else is bright enough to understand that drinking and speeding all around town with a loaded gun on the front seat can't ever end well. I like to think that, but I've met some folks.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:45   #203
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He won't learn the lesson. He will come away from this even more bitter towards law enforcement than he was before. Before a person can learn a lesson, they must be open to the idea that there is a lesson to be learned at all. He does not seem to be one of those people.
Maybe someone else will learn from this story, but I like to think that everyone else is bright enough to understand that drinking and speeding all around town with a loaded gun on the front seat can't ever end well. I like to think that, but I've met some folks.
I sorry you feel that way. Would it be any better having a gun unloaded with the mag readily accessible? Do you think the 2 seconds to charge and rack is any different or would make a diff?
I'm interested.
Also curious
1: have you ever consumed alcohol within 4 hours of operating a motor vehicle?
4 hours being the time it takes for an beer to be dissipated completely from your system?
2: Do you think your ability to hold a steady aim is worse, the same, or better after having a beer?
Graciously waiting your answer
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:02   #204
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Lordy . . . all we need is a tactical wheelbarrow and a painted Draco and we'd be at SuperEpic thread status.

I'm off to pop some more popcorn.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:14   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I was asked if my concealed was loaded. pretty stupid cop and the impending civil rights violation suit will maybe edumacate him
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
stopped for speeding. had one beer right after work. Cop claimed I was drunk. Blood came back .012
Falsely arrested without probable cause, illegal search of my vehicle, confiscation and denial of my 2nd amendment rights.
Cop was so hyped that I had a loaded gun next to me he never made it back to his cruiser to even check my license. The dash board cam shows a confused, insecure cop back pedaling from my truck, stopping at the back and coming back. The video is hilarious and will hang him and his sidekick that showed up.
The verbal on the vid as they illegally went through my truck is even funnier. I smoke cigars and the one cop commented to the other it' smells like weed in here. the gung ho cop is recorded telling his sidekick how he was going to justify stealing my gun.
I love that cops have vid rolling to show how inept they are. I now have my own dashboard cam to record these clowns.
2 days later they setup experimental no cause check points with money they got from the Feds. These are illegal in my state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I have professionals that are working in my best interests in this matter.
I've in the past been part of an Internal Investigation of 3 cops that resulted in some very black marks against them
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I was also brought to the stand in a murder trial about 18 or so years ago and my testimony helped the prosecution .
So what does it make me?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
New to the board?
going on 5 years.
I could be a ranger rumper living in my Mom's basement with Cheetos stains on my chubby with a high post count. Would that help?
A higher post count guarantees nothing really. Sometimes it just shows someone with too much time on their hands or they're a drama Queen.
I came here almost 5 years ago not because I owned a plastic gun but because I could get some good deals on metal ones from peeps that thought a plastic one was better. To each they're own, if it fires and hits where targeted is all I care about
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Really????
I did get to beat on a cop car driving it in an obstacle course during a citizens police academy.
Your math is a little fuzzy, are you adding correctly?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Right here pops. Some of us have to toll and get dirty during the day to support you guys.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Nope, it's for real bro
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Sorry, the comment should be credited to my lawyer
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
just warming up. Kicking back and popped a brew. I have to work during the day to support the rest of you slackers
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Ok
Let's put a similar scenario out there poster.
This is not anywhere what I experienced.
You had a long night the night before because your kid had an earache and kept you up most of the night.
You dragged you but out of bed and put a long day in.
Your wife calls and says it all right for you and your bud from work to go out for dinner. You have a beer, Jack and Coke or whatever and have dinner. After your bud says "I'll buy one at the bar. You're somewhere around .012 at this point depending on weight and other factors. I see you're from Wisconsin so this is nothing peeps do there on a regular basis on a Friday fish or Saturday prime rib outing.
Have you REALLY been drinking?
You get in your car and a couple of miles away you aren't paying attention you're going over the speed limit and the cherries come on.Say you're in Waukesha and not at 35th and North so being a whitey you're not out of your element.
You do have a loaded pistol with you because most sane peeps know an unloaded gun is useless when micro seconds count and you have a CCW and are pretty proficient with it. You got that right back last year and are exercising it.Not like a FIB that gets out once a year and shoots Bossy.
That last drink is still on your breath when Barney approaches your car. Are you drunk just because you had a drink?
Are you guilty of something because in Socialist Brew City minions have no need to go armed and the cop has some kinda problem that you have a loaded gun and maybe he's envious of your car or the address on your license.
Barney advises you that you were speeding and you think it's over.
Are you a past drinker, alky?
They're the worst next to ex smokers.
Ever go out for dinner, have a beer or 2 and drive home?
Ever been in deer camp and your buds get out of bed and go out in the woods with lingering alcohol in there system?

Should we have check points to catch the fish fry 2 beer drinker?
Do you support 0 tolerance as they do in Socialist countries in Europe?
Have you read the jury instructions for your state in which it spells out at what point you are in violation of your CCW?
Do you understand them?
Do you mind Barney going through your personnel belongings on a "hunch" or fishing expo?
What if they slap the cuffs on you and they search the car and find a roach your kid's friend dropped the night before when your kid had the car.
now you have a problem. but you're only .012, well under .08
I'm not upset about a moving violation.
I'm concerned that besides the ticket for speeding, my stuff was "stolen" from my possession, cuffed and stuffed just because maybe Barney thought he was gonna get an atta boy from his boss.
Talk to some kids in they're 20's and younger and see how Barney likes to hassle them, give out $450 DC tickets like candy because they know hardly anybody is going to hire an attorney at say 1K to fight a $450 ticket
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Don't know the name.
Are you afraid of law abiding people and guns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
This was a long time ago. I think one of the cops wasn't around much longer after that. I at least saw that citizens had a tool that cops had to weed out the bad ones at least in smaller cities.
I wasn't involved directly or was arrested. Just a very good eyewitness to the events as they went down.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
After 1 beer I think I've reached my limit and going to bed so I can do it all over tomorrow
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
It was both
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Actually my demeanor was nothing but pleasant and truthful. i don't argue in the dark with people I don't know that have guns and other weapons at their disposal.
I was truthful for where I was all day but they didn't seem to believe me. Guess they're used to dealing with liars and thieves all day.
Funny how cops that have posted, without seeing the vid or transcripts can come to that conclusion.
I do have respect for decent cops but this summer at an event I attended, there was a married cop that went next door and banged some drunk divorced chick. Guy that was staying with me also held him with respect too until this. He's a first responder that I hold respect for.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
That makes a whole lot of sense. Guy getting scanned before entering a sporting event. Nice analogy
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Did you also get a law degree or did you just do the 60 credit thing to get in?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
What exactly is an
"ARMED CURRIER"?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Ok
Didn't read all about him but he appears to have been on a deliberate mission for a confrontation of some sort with people of authority.

Where is anything similar about me and this Leonard guy as to how we came about being contacted by cops????

did I wave my pistol out the window as I went by to elicit a response?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Okay
Let's take a poll
Anybody that's consumed alcohol within 4 hours of driving a motor vehicle raise their hand.
This includes auto, trucks, snowmobiles, boats and yes, lawn tractors operated within the right of way of a road, highway.
Bet it'll get real quiet around here.
Do you feel you were impaired?
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Hold your horses Bronco Billy.
Patience
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Guess you didn't see that the events as depicted weren't applicable completely in my case. Not sure if it was a slip in comprehension as other posters have admitted.
It was in a response to some guy in Beer City to imagine a possible scenario he might be familiar with. Sometimes the Pollacks there need different coloring books.
As to finding a roach, it ties into illegal search and seizure in a scenario.
If you were a cop and this happened to your bud, what would you advise?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I amazed at all the posts from cops on the legality of items depicted. I didn't realize you guys also got law degrees. I always assumed you were just evidence gathers.
Any real,bar lawyer want to chime in. Or do they prefer a different kind of weapon than this forum?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
ok
Interpret this

However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. . “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖

At what point as an agent of the state, would you determine an individual to be in violation?

Hilljack?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HillJack
Not here. sorry of where you live that you have to deal with peeps like that.
I was in Cinncy once, Tucky on 75 in Sept. of this year. Have no real need to revisit the area.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
You've been around the block, spit it out.
Let's hear your interpretation.
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Just answering questions posed to me honestly. What up homes?
answer the question on where you'd interpret my state's law on intox and weapons. It's just you opinion, not anything that would hold before a jury or anything since you aren't a lawyer and don't have a whole lot of exp. testifying in these matters
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I wasn't arrested in Ohio so what?
You're making a statement or opinion based on what?
My posting of the jury instructions are very clear.
What's so hard about telling me your interpretation of what it means?
You don't have to be a lawyer, we're all jurists in the legal system
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Good for you. I'm sure you're in the percentage that is made out for a peace officer. Then there's the % that slide along.
What's your interpretation of the jury instructs?
and as to whether you've ever consumed 4 hours before operating.
It's all right
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I'm on break so I'll make this quick.
The reading comp on this board is an absolute joke.
My blood was .012
the link says this cop was .12
Math isn't a strong subject
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I think you better do so reading as the laws have changed in the last year.
You are allowed to have a loaded pistol in PLAIN VIEW without a CCW license in your vehicle.
You are allowed to have an uncased, unloaded long gun anywhere in the car. I could mount a shotty holder up front. Just so it's unloaded.
You are not allowed to have an uncased, loaded or not pistol within the driver;s control, concealed without a CCW.
I understand your not being up on the changes.
You aren't by chance the famous Milwaukkee pizza delivery boy that shot the robber that started the movement for CCW in WI are you?
The one that got his gun back in a thousand pieces and none of the parts fit back together?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I sorry you feel that way. Would it be any better having a gun unloaded with the mag readily accessible? Do you think the 2 seconds to charge and rack is any different or would make a diff?
I'm interested.
Also curious
1: have you ever consumed alcohol within 4 hours of operating a motor vehicle?
4 hours being the time it takes for an beer to be dissipated completely from your system?
2: Do you think your ability to hold a steady aim is worse, the same, or better after having a beer?
Graciously waiting your answer
So are we...because nothing you've posted so far clearly and directly answers the questions put to you by others in an attempt to clarify what really happened as you briefly described in your second post here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Thanks for your honesty on the question on whether you've ever taken a drink and then drove
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Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
wow, now the names.
I shall call you sailor boy.
SB
Interpret the jury instructions as if they were given to you to judge.
Have you ever had a beer and then operated?
It seems to have gotten real quiet when these questions are asked.
Lots of circular arguments that get boring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Yes and yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
Interpret it so we have a basis for having one beer makes one "intoxicated" per some posters.
Good that some don't drink or can't handle booze.
I commend them for being completely sober.

I answered the questions to the extent that others have advised is enough. Even some of you questions were answered but you might have missed them.
As the wannabe cop was spouting the wrong laws it's just amazing peeps want to give their opinion of guilt or innocence but won't opinion a jury instruction, not mine in particular, but in general. Not really hard to do.
And it's not too hard to say you've operated and drank ma beer is it?
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:24   #206
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Lets start back at the beginning...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I was asked if my concealed was loaded. pretty stupid cop and the impending civil rights violation suit will maybe edumacate him
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
  • stopped for speeding.

  • had one beer right after work.

  • Cop claimed I was drunk.

  • Blood came back .012
Let's take those points as fact. bucksnort, they are true facts, right?

In a subsequent post you introduce jury instructions. Were those instructions given at your jury trial?

You say the officer claimed you were drunk. The jury instructions go to being "under the influence", further defined as "materially impaired", correct?

Last, you say the blood test revealed your alcohol level was .012. When was the blood drawn? How long after you consumed the "one beer" was the test made?

I ask that because in two later posts you introduce "consumed 4 hours before operating," and "have you ever consumed alcohol within 4 hours of operating a motor vehicle? 4 hours being the time it takes for an beer to be dissipated completely from your system?"

How does "4 hours" relate to your situation?

I put the questions in bold to make it easier for you to recognize and answer them.

As you said, I am "Graciously waiting your answer."
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:58   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksnort1959 View Post
I think you better do so reading as the laws have changed in the last year.
You are allowed to have a loaded pistol in PLAIN VIEW without a CCW license in your vehicle.
You are allowed to have an uncased, unloaded long gun anywhere in the car. I could mount a shotty holder up front. Just so it's unloaded.
You are not allowed to have an uncased, loaded or not pistol within the driver;s control, concealed without a CCW.
I understand your not being up on the changes.
You could be right, and if so, I'll admit I was wrong. I've kept up with the changes that pertain to having a permit since that's what I have and that's what pertains to me.

ETA: OK I updated myself, and admit I was not up to date on what somebody without a permit can and can't do.

Quote:

167.31
...
(2) (b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow, or crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless the firearm is a handgun, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (bm), unless the firearm is unloaded and encased, or unless the bow or crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying case.
...
(4) Exceptions. (a) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to any of the following who, in the line of duty, place, possess, transport, load or discharge a firearm in, on or from a vehicle, motorboat or aircraft or discharge a firearm from or across a highway or within 50 feet of the center of a roadway:
2. A member of the U.S. armed forces.
3. A member of the national guard.
4. A private security person who meets all of the following requirements:
a. He or she holds either a private detective license issued under s. 440.26 (2) (a) 2. or a private security permit issued under s. 440.26 (5).
b. He or she holds a certificate of proficiency to carry a firearm issued by the department of safety and professional services.
c. He or she is performing his or her assigned duties or responsibilities.
d. He or she is wearing a uniform that clearly identifies him or her as a private security person.
e. His or her firearm is in plain view, as defined by rule by the department of safety and professional services.
So according to that, this:
Quote:
Cop was so hyped that I had a loaded gun next to me he never made it back to his cruiser to even check my license.
appears to be okay. But where "next to you" did you have the gun?

I put in red what I interpret as the WI's concealed carry permit exemption. Do you have a CCW permit that WI honors?

Quote:
You aren't by chance the famous Milwaukkee pizza delivery boy that shot the robber that started the movement for CCW in WI are you?
The one that got his gun back in a thousand pieces and none of the parts fit back together?
Nope, that's not me. And I hope that never has to be me.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:27   #208
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stopped for speeding. had one beer right after work. Cop claimed I was drunk. Blood came back .012
Falsely arrested without probable cause, illegal search of my vehicle, confiscation and denial of my 2nd amendment rights.
Cop was so hyped that I had a loaded gun next to me he never made it back to his cruiser to even check my license. The dash board cam shows a confused, insecure cop back pedaling from my truck, stopping at the back and coming back. The video is hilarious and will hang him and his sidekick that showed up.
The verbal on the vid as they illegally went through my truck is even funnier. I smoke cigars and the one cop commented to the other it' smells like weed in here. the gung ho cop is recorded telling his sidekick how he was going to justify stealing my gun.
I love that cops have vid rolling to show how inept they are. I now have my own dashboard cam to record these clowns.
2 days later they setup experimental no cause check points with money they got from the Feds. These are illegal in my state.


Hey OP, what is an "experimental no cause checkpoint"?
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:35   #209
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Just wondering if any of these apply?
Attached Thumbnails
Carry Issues - Click for larger version   Carry Issues - Click for larger version   Carry Issues - Click for larger version  
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:00   #210
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I put in red what I interpret as the WI's concealed carry permit exemption.
That applies to owners or employees of a private investigation or security agency.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:20   #211
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That applies to owners or employees of a private investigation or security agency.
That could be why I'm not a lawyer! Haha my reputation is dwindling by the post!
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:40   #212
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Just wondering if any of these apply?
Those are good.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:02   #213
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Has the trial already taken place? If you were found not guilty that is the first item to the lawsuit but you have to prove damages. Are you seeing a psychologist? Are you able to work? In this area I have on;y seen a couple of cases get awards for police actions and they were in PG County and Montgomery County. The judge;s grandson in PG received a two million dollar award for the Duke riot after being beaten, then years ago they had an officer accidentally kill a black drug dealer because the Glock went off by accident..two million dollars and then a white cop shot a black girl when his shotgun went off by accident and that was a large settlement. I rarely see anyone recover a dime from the government because of immunities and qualified immunities given to the leo and the county and states. Unless there are details not given to us I don't see anything that will pass summary judgment or even the standard motion to dismiss. Good luck.

PS If you expunge the arrest the record will be clear but the lawsuit will be gone because of the waiver you will have to sin..then you have to worry about your chp if you have one.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:07   #214
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I'm starting to wonder if this ever really happened.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:07   #215
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Did you also get a law degree or did you just do the 60 credit thing to get in?
Actually a B.S. in Criminal Justice, M.S. in Public Management, and about 18 months away from a J.D., but thanks for asking.

To Golls17:

DUI checkpoints are completely constitutional. You are correct about searches incident to arrest and how they can vary. There are a couple of states out there that do not accept the Carroll Doctrine adopted by the US Supreme Court and require a search warrant for a vehicle search. I don't think that it's applicable here though.

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Old 12-06-2012, 11:20   #216
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Did you also get a law degree or did you just do the 60 credit thing to get in?
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Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
Actually a B.S. in Criminal Justice, M.S. in Public Management, and about 18 months away from a J.D., but thanks for asking.
Oh, Snap...
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:09   #217
golls17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
Actually a B.S. in Criminal Justice, M.S. in Public Management, and about 18 months away from a J.D., but thanks for asking.

To Golls17:

DUI checkpoints are completely constitutional. You are correct about searches incident to arrest and how they can vary. There are a couple of states out there that do not accept the Carroll Doctrine adopted by the US Supreme Court and require a search warrant for a vehicle search. I don't think that it's applicable here though.
Constitutional, yes. Whether WI decided to make them illegal or something else, we just don't do them here. The story I heard in the academy was that drunks would just do a U-turn. Cops started stopping them for illegal U-turns instead. A lawyer here and there, and now we don't do them. IDK if that's true or not, but it's what I heard and it's an interesting story, if nothing more.

In the OP's case, there wasn't a checkpoint anyways, so that is irrelevant. If he had weed (according to his hypothetical), the the vehicle here would get searched no matter what. If it's just alcohol, most counties here can search, a few can't. The guy I was talking to in my earlier example (if I remember right - it was a while ago) said they will seize the vehicle as evidence, therefore inventorying everything in it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:11   #218
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I have been in my fair share of trouble so i am not gonna start throwing rocks in a glass house, but... you were drinking, driving and carrying a firearm. I am not a lawman nor am i an attorney but that sounds like it don't mix. If i were in this situation i wouldn't be trying to ramp up the prosecution, getting them in a tissy. I would suggest being calm and trying to go into the courtroom respectfully and say "hey i wasn't causing any trouble, can we reevaluate this situation". One thing i have learned with all my "legal issues" is that you can argue, fight and fuss till you're blue in the face, but you catch more flies with honey. As to all that have openly criticized the OP, you really don't know what the OP went through and it is hard to put every detail in one of these threads, especially when you are having to defend yourself from everyone pretty much. i say , instead of snarky remarks we offer him advice and maybe with our actions it might help him calm down and make good decisions, cause like another poster said he represents us all who carry. I am not taking sides I just know how stressful it can be to have made a mistake and try to reconcile it quickly and efficiently. As far as the OP's attitude towards LE, i am only going to say that these guys put there life on the line everyday to help protect us and just like any soldier that fights for this country: May God bless you and thank you.
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:31   #219
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I can't believe i don't have to pay for this entertainment-well, I do pay for my internet

And some were dissing RUSS P about making this a thread?

C'Mon Man!
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Old 12-06-2012, 17:52   #220
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What I got out of this thread:

maybe you can beat the rap, but you sure as *%#& can't beat the ride!
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