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Old 12-04-2012, 11:33   #121
clarkz71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
I understand that completely. I own leather as well as a SERPA.

But he didn't mention quality vs cheap leather or stiff vs soft. He simply stated leather could never engage the trigger, which obviously isn't true.

Either way, I wasn't trying to castrate the guy. That article simply came to mind after reading his post.
OK, I got you. We're on the same page then.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:46   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post

As to holsters:

1) I have some plastic holsters made by 3 or 4 companies that collectively I think are pieces of plastic shiest. The ones for Glocks do in fact hold the gun and with the paddle systems are "useable" at best. The belt loop systems suck. They all hold the gun away from your body and are noisy as all get out.

1a) When asking people why they buy them, it is always they were cheap, I didn't have to wait to order it, you can put the gun back easy, they are Tacti-Kool just like my kahki pants.

1b) I only bought one of these. The rest were freebies of one kind or another. The one I bought is for a Ruger Competition semi-auto .22 that has a red dot mounted on it's receiver. No leather for that puppy.

1c) It isn't that these plastic holsters work or don't work, its that their construction begs for some retention system. Then Rube Goldberg devices start showing up. U shaped clevis' over the top, push buttons, form fitting to trigger guards.

2) Leather holsters: they rule. They draw the gun tight to your body, are flexible, cover trigger guards properly, and are usually comfortable and always quiet. Thumb breaks work is you need more than open top retention.

2a) For Glocks, I have one each of a DeSantis open top semi-pancake style lined with suede that uses a rubber tension screw to restrict other than straight up drawing. One each of M26, M19, M22, M35 size.

2b) If you need a decent belt holster, Desantis is the way to go. Hell, if you can afford the gun, buy it a decent holster.

3) If you need to be Tacti-Kool, get a military M9 flap system and use a Glock M35. Then you will be Kool.
I don't agree with your assessments of kydex vs leather.

I have several high quality leather holsters including TT Gunleather, UBG, FIST and DM Bullard. I also have several kydex holsters including Garret Industries, AHolsters, CompTac and X Concealment.

I feel the retention systems (compression screw) used on these kydex holsters work as advertised. I have never had a problem with any of my weapons coming out of the holster. They also keep the holsters very tight against the body and they are not noisy. The only time they make any sound is when I draw my pistol, or if I bump into something.

On the other hand, every single one of the leather holsters squeak. I have gone online looking for solutions and contacted the manufacturers. So far, nothing I have tried has worked to resolve the squeak. For that reason, I do not use them right now.

It's possible the kydex holsters you were given were cheap and that has influenced your decision. I have the opposite feeling based on what has happened with quality leather holsters.
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Old 12-04-2012, 13:01   #123
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Questions for the OP:

1. When you left the holster with the gun in it on the table, was your hand still touching it when the discharge happened or it happened when your hand was not touching the holster ?

2. I would assume that you know how to lubricate your Glock. No offense intended, just for the heck of the conversation I would like to leave the assumptions aside - did you cleaned the gun when you brought it home from the store, did you remove all the anti-seize compound from it ?

3. In the same line - did you lubricate the gun before you first fire it and are you positive any of the lubrication (what are you using anyway ?) did not go into the firing pin's channel and respectively into the safety pin's hole ?

Understandably, such topic will draw lots of attention... Judging by the number of views and 5 pages of really valuable info coming from experience and some well respected members of this forum I was able to grasp on the semantics of the difference between Glock not having part called "sear" and having part that incorporates the same function... Of course, as a person that doesn't know everything about the subject, I will like to see the d!(K measuring competition being set aside and someone to elaborate little bit in some subjects as for example:

1. If hypothetically the holster is the reason for the discharge, what are the mechanics of it, how it could happened ?

2. If the mechanics of the gun are the hypothetical cause of the discharge, how this will happened with the pistol only or with the pistol inserted in the holster...?

3. How about if the OP's hand touches the holster, how this would change any of the mechanics of the gun or the holster... ?
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Old 12-04-2012, 13:30   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
I agree, I have a Milt Sparks Nelson Legacy (for the late Bruce Nelson)
And I have a couple of REAL Bruce Nelson holsters from back in the day when he taught me to shoot the 1911. He was a heck of a shooter and a great instructor. He was one of the first, if not the very first, to mold leather as a means of obtaining retention. I still use his OWB with my Colt Government Combat and I use his magazine pouches with all of my 1911s.

Richard
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Old 12-04-2012, 14:55   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
I agree.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet on this being as issue with the gun. I've been using several different Blackhawks and SERPAs for years in C1 and I've never had issues. I've also spent lots of time practicing drawing properly and safely and I've used those holsters in timed practical matches as well. Never once had an issue even when "rushing".
Please explain to me the malfunction that could cause a Glock to fire a round without the trigger being pulled.
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:04   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INEEDMILK View Post
Please explain to me the malfunction that could cause a Glock to fire a round without the trigger being pulled.
I'm not an armorer nor an engineer. I don't have an explanation.

The holster is a far more simple device though. Without a foreign object being introduced, a properly functioning SERPA holster in itself cannot pull the trigger, and will not allow anything else access to within the trigger gaurd.

But the gun did go bang, and if I don't think the holster is to blame, I can only bet on one other thing.
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:08   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PVolk View Post
I'm not an armorer nor an engineer. I don't have an explanation.

The holster is a far more simple device though. Without a foreign object being introduced, a properly functioning SERPA holster in itself cannot pull the trigger, and will not allow anything else access to within the trigger gaurd.

But the gun did go bang, and if I don't think the holster is to blame, I can only bet on one other thing.
And let me add, a blockage in the holster that could push the trigger would have discharged the pistol right away.

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Old 12-04-2012, 15:14   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INEEDMILK View Post
Please explain to me the malfunction that could cause a Glock to fire a round without the trigger being pulled.
Arc Angel has it all figured out, check his multiple posts. .

I think he calls it stacking and we should all stop
carrying our Glocks in condition 1.

My opinion conflicts with his, but I have a low post count
so what do I know. .
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:19   #129
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Originally Posted by kashdaddy View Post
First, thank god no one got hurt!

Like most people say, something had to have pull the trigger.

Also, in the future, a safer practice would be to remove the weapon from the holster and unload it and then take off the holster. Never handle a holster with a firearm inside.

Its very unlikely that its the glock since the functionality of a glock and safety mechanism would not allow a AD in the described circumstances. Even if it was poorly modified.

I dont think its the holster, looking at my blackhawk, bladetech, comptac, glock, other generic holsters............I cant see anything close that would pull the trigger.

I think when the OP holstered his weapon into the holster, he might have had a string or some clothes caught inside with slight tension and when he removed the holster, the trigger got pulled by whatever was holding onto it.

Also, many time people do not realize their trigger was touched with a finger during an AD..............not saying this is the case since we were not there, but I dont think this is likely with the blackhawk.

Point to consider: Guns dont fire themselves, holsters dont fire guns..........its human intervention generally cause such dilemma. I would think if it was the holster then why did the gun choose to fire just when it was taken off? Seem like if the holster had something to press on the trigger then it would have happened at the time of inserting the weapon.
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:20   #130
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Any updates OP?
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:23   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Arc Angel has it all figured out, check his multiple posts. .

I think he calls it stacking and we should all stop
carrying our Glocks in condition 1.

My opinion conflicts with his, but I have a low post count
so what do I know. .
I've never understood about people thinking if your post count is high then you know what your talking about. My son is 15 and I would put money on it that he knows more about Glocks then half the members on here and he has a 0 post count on here. The other day My son was showing his uncle how to break his new G19 slide completely down.
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Old 12-04-2012, 15:41   #132
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Originally Posted by tonyparson View Post
I've never understood about people thinking if your post count is high then you know what your talking about. My son is 15 and I would put money on it that he knows more about Glocks then half the members on here and he has a 0 post count on here. The other day My son was showing his uncle how to break his new G19 slide completely down.
I know it, I was being sarcastic. It's an inside joke
between another member & I in a PM regarding how
Arc Angel responded to several of my posts.

That's great your son has been learning safe firearms
training and handling at a young age. When did you start
working with him?
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Old 12-04-2012, 16:19   #133
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I want to say I have been carrying the same Glock in a Serpa for some time so I am very interested in the results.
What bothers me is the reaction by some members. There are several people that probably don't even own a serpa saying how dangerous they are and yelling at their computers to get rid of them immediately.
You sound like the media talking about guns. Placing blame without proof, I have sat here for an hour looking at my serpa and there is no way it can be to blame if it was the right model for the gun. We are not talking about pulling the trigger while drawing the weapon. Once locked in the serpa there is nothing close to the trigger. Don't blame the holster just because you don't want to blame the Glock. I hope it can be figured out with a logical explanation. Until then all of my Glocks will go back in their Serpas.
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Old 12-04-2012, 16:28   #134
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I think it will be interesting to see if someone can't safely replicate what happened, and try to figure out exactly what happened, so the rest of us can try our best to avoid it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 16:38   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
I know it, I was being sarcastic. It's an inside joke
between another member & I in a PM regarding how
Arc Angel responded to several of my posts.

That's great your son has been learning safe firearms
training and handling at a young age. When did you start
working with him?
I have 2 sons one is 17 and the other is 15. I started them both out shooting Glocks when they were 6. My oldest son likes guns but doesn't love them. My 15 year old loves them. Specially Glocks.
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Old 12-04-2012, 16:40   #136
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Originally Posted by mrdinks View Post
I want to say I have been carrying the same Glock in a Serpa for some time so I am very interested in the results.
What bothers me is the reaction by some members. There are several people that probably don't even own a serpa saying how dangerous they are and yelling at their computers to get rid of them immediately.
You sound like the media talking about guns. Placing blame without proof, I have sat here for an hour looking at my serpa and there is no way it can be to blame if it was the right model for the gun. We are not talking about pulling the trigger while drawing the weapon. Once locked in the serpa there is nothing close to the trigger. Don't blame the holster just because you don't want to blame the Glock. I hope it can be figured out with a logical explanation. Until then all of my Glocks will go back in their Serpas.
Good posting.
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Old 12-04-2012, 16:58   #137
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I think it will be interesting to see if someone can't safely replicate what happened, and try to figure out exactly what happened, so the rest of us can try our best to avoid it.
Thats what I wish this thread would have turned into, instead of the usual "I know more" and "post count" discussion. I did a lot of testing and even tried to put shirt/coat tail in the holster (around trigger) and then took the holster off and nope, trigger was not pulled. Not sure what else I could do with the holster and gun except maybe take a hammer to it and see if it will go off. I will like to hear an update from the OP so we can make sure that we are aware and help minimize this from happening to anyone else if avoidable.
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:01   #138
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Thats what I wish this thread would have turned into, instead of the usual "I know more" and "post count" discussion. I did a lot of testing and even tried to put shirt/coat tail in the holster (around trigger) and then took the holster off and nope, trigger was not pulled. Not sure what else I could do with the holster and gun except maybe take a hammer to it and see if it will go off. I will like to hear an update from the OP so we can make sure that we are aware and help minimize this from happening to anyone else if avoidable.
Exactly, that's what I want, results, not pissing contests. If this is the fault of the holster, how can we avoid it happening again? If this is the fault of the firearm, how can we avoid it happening again? If this is the fault of the user, how can we avoid it happening again?
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:02   #139
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Exactly, that's what I want, results, not pissing contests. If this is the fault of the holster, how can we avoid it happening again? If this is the fault of the firearm, how can we avoid it happening again? If this is the fault of the user, how can we avoid it happening again?
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Old 12-04-2012, 17:11   #140
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Originally Posted by tonyparson View Post
I have 2 sons one is 17 and the other is 15. I started them both out shooting Glocks when they were 6. My oldest son likes guns but doesn't love them. My 15 year old loves them. Specially Glocks.
That's cool, I like your signature as well.

Now we just need an update from the OP.
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