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Old 12-03-2012, 20:44   #81
NCHeel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodiakpb View Post
My recommendation is to invest in a quality kydex holster that properly secures the weapon and protects the trigger.
THe Blackhawk SERPA is a quality Kydex holster that secures the weapon by the front of the trigger guard and completely covers the trigger so your recommendation makes no sense.
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Last edited by NCHeel; 12-03-2012 at 20:45..
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Old 12-03-2012, 20:55   #82
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something or someone pulled the trigger, its that simple.
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:03   #83
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I would check the engagement of the cruciform with the firing pin lug. I don't see how dropping the gun on a table could pull a 5.5 pound trigger. It could cause the lug to disengage and on a new pistol with a stiff firing pin spring have enough force to strike the primer. This would only happen if the firing pin plunger was stuck though. You may find this stupid but have you fired this pistol yet (other than through the wall)? You said the pistol and holster are brand new. Wondering if the pistol is inclined to double fire.
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Last edited by NCHeel; 12-03-2012 at 21:06..
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:03   #84
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In an Un'F'd with Glock, in order for it to fire, the trigger has to be to the rear.

The trigger only goes to the rear if the trigger safety is disengaged. The trigger moving to the rear depresses the firing pin safety AND loads the striker spring. Once the trigger bar moves past the drop safety shelf, the striker, when to the rear, can be released.

For the mechanism to fail, the trigger safety has to fail, the firing pin safety has to be depressed, and the trigger bar has to be to the rear past the drop safety shelf.

It just doesn't happen.

Even if the striker is released, partially tensioned, the firing pin safety stops the firing pin. Even if the firing pin safety was missing or frozen in the up position, the firing pin is minimally tensioned until the trigger bar pushes it to the rear. The minimal tension on the firing pin spring, from an UNpulled trigger position, may well not fire the primer.

Unmessed with, it just doesn't happen. Even messed with by an idjit, the firing pin safety should not let this AD happen.

Examine the gun for three seconds. You will have your answer. Missing, stuck, broken parts, OR a POS holster OR there is more to the story that only the SHADOW knows.

Last edited by LampShadeActual; 12-03-2012 at 21:05..
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:06   #85
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I'm the poor sot that had a M&P 9mm AD. And it was my fault plane and simple.

I use Serpa Paddles for my M&P .45, 9mm and Sigma 9mm along with my G20. And I have had no issue at all. I like the fact if you try to pull the pistol out before pressing the release it locks up. Also when used correctly my trigger finger always falls on the side of the frame where it's suppose to be. The only way on could get on the trigger early is to purposely do it. The trigger finger will naturally ride off the release in a channel to the right place on the frame.

Tex worked hard to shoot himself.

I would put my money on something wrong with the pistol. For the holster to not be the one for that pistol or family of pistol. The pistol would fit very poorly indeed. Sure my smaller frame 9mm's will fit in the larger frame Serpas for the .45 and 10mm. But there not retained right and don't get on the backside of the trigger guard as they should. But in no way would the holster activate the trigger. And the large frame pistols wont go into the smaller framed holsters at all.

I was just thinking. A Glock Armorer said the pistol was 100%..... What about the ammo? Could a primer been set to hard with the anvil in a unnatural state. OP came in and the anvil unloaded build up pressure thus igniting the round. Say a extreme temp swing causing it to unload and cause ignition. Or just the days carrying caused it to trip it's own trigger.

There has to be some sort of transfer of energy to make a firearm go off. Even the worn out leather holster incited a transfer of energy. It wadded up and pushed the trigger. Could a primer anvil be in such a position that it could come apart like a clock spring so to speak and make a bang all on it's own?

Last edited by blastfact; 12-03-2012 at 21:09..
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:20   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
I do not have pics of it yet, will take some later today though! Here is the link to the exact holster I have though.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/49651
Well that sucks. I have the same holster and love it. Going to do some serious playing with it tonight.
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:26   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
In an Un'F'd with Glock, in order for it to fire, the trigger has to be to the rear.

The trigger only goes to the rear if the trigger safety is disengaged. The trigger moving to the rear depresses the firing pin safety AND loads the striker spring. Once the trigger bar moves past the drop safety shelf, the striker, when to the rear, can be released.

For the mechanism to fail, the trigger safety has to fail, the firing pin safety has to be depressed, and the trigger bar has to be to the rear past the drop safety shelf.

It just doesn't happen.

Even if the striker is released, partially tensioned, the firing pin safety stops the firing pin. Even if the firing pin safety was missing or frozen in the up position, the firing pin is minimally tensioned until the trigger bar pushes it to the rear. The minimal tension on the firing pin spring, from an UNpulled trigger position, may well not fire the primer.

Unmessed with, it just doesn't happen. Even messed with by an idjit, the firing pin safety should not let this AD happen.

Examine the gun for three seconds. You will have your answer. Missing, stuck, broken parts, OR a POS holster OR there is more to the story that only the SHADOW knows.
Who says that a pre-set Glock striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set of the primer?

It is very easy for an idiot to make a Glock fire without pulling the trigger. There are guys out there which knowingly shoot their "race" Glocks without the firing pin safety block because it makes the trigger pull lighter by a lot they think. Also, some people shoot their Glock's with an trigger job gone wrong, they just don't know better. A tap on the right spot and it goes off without pulling the trigger. Trust me, I have seen a "race" Glock going wild, that guy didn't even pull the trigger.
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:32   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schapman43 View Post
Well that sucks. I have the same holster and love it. Going to do some serious playing with it tonight.
I thought the same thing earlier today and went to work on mine....to include bouncing my G23 nestled inside a Serpa holster off the bed and watching it hit the floor a number of times. I wonder how silly I looked.

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Old 12-03-2012, 21:32   #89
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Originally Posted by schapman43 View Post
Going to do some serious playing with it tonight.

Sorry. I had to...
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:43   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
In an Un'F'd with Glock, in order for it to fire, the trigger has to be to the rear.

The trigger only goes to the rear if the trigger safety is disengaged. The trigger moving to the rear depresses the firing pin safety AND loads the striker spring. Once the trigger bar moves past the drop safety shelf, the striker, when to the rear, can be released.

For the mechanism to fail, the trigger safety has to fail, the firing pin safety has to be depressed, and the trigger bar has to be to the rear past the drop safety shelf.

It just doesn't happen.

Even if the striker is released, partially tensioned, the firing pin safety stops the firing pin. Even if the firing pin safety was missing or frozen in the up position, the firing pin is minimally tensioned until the trigger bar pushes it to the rear. The minimal tension on the firing pin spring, from an UNpulled trigger position, may well not fire the primer.

Unmessed with, it just doesn't happen. Even messed with by an idjit, the firing pin safety should not let this AD happen.

Examine the gun for three seconds. You will have your answer. Missing, stuck, broken parts, OR a POS holster OR there is more to the story that only the SHADOW knows.
This.
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Old 12-03-2012, 21:47   #91
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I have a SERPA holster for every pistol I own. I don't buy the sportster model though. I buy the CQC models. Have carried in condition one with them for probably 50,000 hours and taken 100 hours of training with them. Never a problem. You guys bouncing them of beds onto carpet make me giggle. I have dropped one 6 feet onto concrete. I have slammed into barricades, tumbled to the ground, dove through window openings and slipped on ice while wearing one.

100% impossible for a properly fitting SERPA holster to press the trigger on a GLOCK.
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Last edited by NCHeel; 12-03-2012 at 21:49..
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Old 12-03-2012, 22:30   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHeel View Post
I have a SERPA holster for every pistol I own. I don't buy the sportster model though. I buy the CQC models. Have carried in condition one with them for probably 50,000 hours and taken 100 hours of training with them. Never a problem. You guys bouncing them of beds onto carpet make me giggle. I have dropped one 6 feet onto concrete. I have slammed into barricades, tumbled to the ground, dove through window openings and slipped on ice while wearing one.

100% impossible for a properly fitting SERPA holster to press the trigger on a GLOCK.
50k hrs?

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Old 12-03-2012, 22:41   #93
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
Who says that a pre-set Glock striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set of the primer?
I would end to agree with this. My son has a single shot Henry rifle that requires you to pull the cocking knob on the back of the bolt before firing. I've tried pulling it back to the point just before it catches sear and letting it rip but I for the life of me could not get it to go. It is a .22 rimfire so there is some difference but it takes a good hit on the primer to get it to go. Nothing like the can of my dad's black powder caps I snuck into my bunk bead as a kid. Those fell from under my pillow and filled the room with smoke.

It has always been my understanding that the half cocked striker in the Glock didn't have the energy to touch a round off. Sure wish I had a good way to test.
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Old 12-03-2012, 22:42   #94
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Sorry. I had to...
Lol, you suck!
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Old 12-03-2012, 22:44   #95
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
Who says that a pre-set Glock striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set of the primer?

It is very easy for an idiot to make a Glock fire without pulling the trigger. There are guys out there which knowingly shoot their "race" Glocks without the firing pin safety block because it makes the trigger pull lighter by a lot they think. Also, some people shoot their Glock's with an trigger job gone wrong, they just don't know better. A tap on the right spot and it goes off without pulling the trigger. Trust me, I have seen a "race" Glock going wild, that guy didn't even pull the trigger.
Doesn't the firing pin safety hold the extractor in the slide? Is it even possible for the gun to function without the striker safety?
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Old 12-03-2012, 22:45   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Smith M&P sear and a 1911 sear, nothing like that on a Glock trigger bar.
The head of Glock Professional, Inc. was the primary instructor at the armorer's school I attended in Smyrna, Georgia. He referred to one of the checks as "sear engagement", which is supposed to be a minimum of 2/3rds of the thickness of the trigger bar where the firing pin lug contacts the end of the trigger bar, ie. the sear.

You are correct, the sear of a Glock, an M&P, a 1911, a Remington 700, etc. are different - that doesn't mean that one is a sear and the other is not.

Here's the definition of a "sear":
Quote:
In a firearm, the sear is the part of the trigger mechanism which holds the hammer or striker back until the correct amount of pressure has been applied to the trigger; at which point the hammer or striker is released to discharge the weapon. The sear may be a separate part or can be a surface incorporated into the trigger.
The end of the trigger bar clearly meets this definition, so I think Mr. Ramsey was correct in his statement, when he referred to "sear engagement".

If commonly accepted firearm terminology, and the statements made by the head instructor for the armorer's school for the manufacturer is not good enough for you - I'm sure that there is nothing more that can be written, or said, to convince you that, indeed, there is a sear in a Glock firearm.
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Old 12-03-2012, 23:01   #97
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I have had a few PM's with good ideas on what to have another Glock Armorer look for on my pistol. So tomorrow I am going to take it in again, I may end up sending my pistol to Glock, because based on what I am reading and hearing I am becoming very skeptical that this holster actually cause the trigger to be pulled, maybe the armorer I took it to today didnt thoroughly look at it well enough.

So I hope I have some good news for you all tomorrow! Also too make sure it is understood, I DEFINITELY did NOT pull the trigger, or somehow cause this. The pistol was in the holster, on the table, and fired. The holster is slightly damaged, (i.e. the push button lock is loose now and the inside is scraped. The pistol still holsters and locks in it though. Also after the pistol fired it failed to go fully into battery, which is expected since it was still in the holster.

That is a very good idea about the holsters maybe being switched! Did not think to even check that! Like I had said I havent had this holster long, Wasnt one I planned on EDC anyways. Was just testing it out. Also I had taken this pistol out a few days back and put about 150 rounds through it without any issue.

I truly do not know what happend, I will let you all know first thing once I do though! Also will try and get pics tomorrow once I can borrow a camera, my phones camera doesnt really show pics in very high detail.

Thanks everyone for your support and help with this!
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Old 12-03-2012, 23:03   #98
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We have over 250 Serpas in use for over 2 years There has never been one go off in the holster. Dropped, rolled around on the ground, in car trunks, fighting idiots. Just about everything you can imagine. If the Serpa has a weakness, its in the draw step. I concede that its possible to get your finger on the trigger while drawing. It hasn't happened yet. May happen tomorrow, but, I can't see one going off in the holster.

I think a Glock has enough stored energy in the spring to fire if everything goes wrong. Never seen it either, but, mechanically, I think the possability exsists.

With a true DA auto or a revolver, everything has to work right for the gun to fire. With a Glock, an M&P and some other striker fired guns, everything has to work right for it NOT to fire.

Knowing how a Glock works, I cannot make myself carry one appendix. I'm willing to risk a crease in an ass cheek if everything goes wrong. A hit to the femoral artery? Not so much.
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Old 12-03-2012, 23:08   #99
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
Who says that a pre-set Glock striker doesn't have enough energy stored to set of the primer?
The instructors at the armorers school.
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Old 12-03-2012, 23:13   #100
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I have read a bunch of good points here but..
Was this same round loaded, ejected, and loaded time and time again?
Was the striker channel checked for debris?
Does the primer have a full indentation from the firing pin?
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