[INEEDMILK]

Originally Posted by LampShadeActual

If some Bubba removes metal from the bottom of the U and removes metal from the top rear of the cruciform, the engagement of what amounts to a striker and sear disappears to next to nothing. I can see it happening that the striker is released.

Add in a malfunctioning firing pin safety and Bammmm.

No gun store the size of FF&F has a two year old Glock in stock.

Add them all together and the OP's story is possible. Add in the two year old stock problem, and I am willing to believe him over mutts in a gun store.

Yes...I don't doubt that it is possible that some idiot at the gun store messed with the internals of this new Glock.

What I am questioning is how the OP fired 150 rounds through his new Glock AND did an inspection of the parts, and nothing stood out as abnormal. If the trigger bar was so worn down that a slight bump could set it off, he would have noticed that at the range, right???

Also, if it was excessively Dremmeled or whatever, that means that this problem would be recreateable, meaning that he could set up this same situation again (round in the chamber, gun dropped on the table) and the gun would go off again. However, the OP said that the gun "seemed fine" afterward.

Please explain that to me...

[curlysir]

Originally Posted by dosei

Yes, of course there has.

Two that spring immediately to mind are:
1) The Suffolk County PD (NY) AD, where a Glock was slam-firing.
2) The DEA Frisbee Test.

It is widely believed that these events were the key impetus behind the 1992 Technical Bulletin issued by Glock. No doubt there were many other incidents by individuals that were being dismissed with the same level of arrogance/ignorance/overconfidence as this incident (by certain individuals on this thread)...but must have been occuring with enough regularity that Glock was beginning to wonder. And those 2 incidences were ones that Glock could not cover up/dismiss...at that point they had to address the problem.

Have been thinking the same thing as you, but somewhat reluctant to post because of the attack attitude of some on this forum, that believe that nothing can go wrong with a Glock that cannot be fixed with proper grip or correct ammo.

If you read more about the 1992 upgrade (I have G20 that was subject to it) you will see that Glock had to be more or less forced to admit there was a problem.

There is no such thing as 100% reliability.

[WilliamDahl]

Originally Posted by curlysir

If you read more about the 1992 upgrade (I have G20 that was subject to it) you will see that Glock had to be more or less forced to admit there was a problem.

Admitting that you have a problem with your design opens you up to legal liability. No manufacturer wants that.

For whatever reason, Glock seems to attract a certain type of people who are extremely enthusiastic about that firearm. They think that nothing can possibly go wrong with it and that any problems that are encountered are the fault of the user. The Glock detractors tend to call these people "fanboys", just like the Apple enthusiasts are called. I have to wonder if maybe they are so enthusiastic because they have not owned that many of other types of firearms due to them being younger than those of us old farts that grew up with the M1911. I figure that no firearm is perfect and they each have their advantages and disadvantages. I might be rather polarized on my politics, but I'm not on my firearms. The main things is that you carry *something* and don't just be a victim waiting to happen.

[Rick305]

Originally Posted by Glock_23_Fan

First post to GT. I have read this whole thread and have two points.

1) I learned much from this thread to take forward. To be honest, I never gave it a second though that I could not be getting a brand new un-modified firearm that I thought I was purchasing, but you can bet that will be at the forefront of all future purchases. So for that aspect alone, this was an eye opening and informative thread.

2) There does not seem to be an alterior motive to the post other than to provide information to others and seek an explanation. Therefore, I believe the OP and his version of the events and am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps that is naive, but if the situation as reported happened to me I could see myself posting the information if for nothing else than to alert others of the situation and try to find out what happened. I guess that is projecting, but given the information posted and the fact that I will never really know for sure that is the best I can come up with. Yeah, most people suck and lie, but not all of them.

So, OP thank you for posting, I learned something. You don't know what you don't know, and now there is one less thing I don't know.

Welcome to the forum !

Well I've seen people go to great lengths to stir the pot on a forum , but I'm not saying this is a case of that.

I just feel like the op may have unknowingly engaged the trigger while unholstering ... When the shot went off that would scare any person blue and maybe he truly feels he didn't touch the trigger ..

But from all of his posts , I do not see him placing a gun on a table and it decides to go bang on its own ... I just don't see how that is possible regardless of the "suicide trigger job"--from the new guns prior owner that he noticed after 150rds on his new glock that he took apart and put back together with no issue" ...

If he dropped it okay then maybe I could believe this story , but the random going off ? Nope.

[.38 super]

Originally Posted by dosei

Yes, of course there has.

.......
2) The DEA Frisbee Test.

It is widely believed that these events were the key impetus behind the 1992 Technical Bulletin issued by Glock. No doubt there were many other incidents by individuals that were being dismissed with the same level of arrogance/ignorance/overconfidence as this incident (by certain individuals on this thread)...but must have been occuring with enough regularity that Glock was beginning to wonder. And those 2 incidences were ones that Glock could not cover up/dismiss...at that point they had to address the problem.

I agree about the Glock's 92 Tech Bulleting, but remind me please - I was under impression that Frisbee test only was cracking the frame/grip when dropped with full mag... ?

[jfost11]

Originally Posted by Rick305

Welcome to the forum !

Well I've seen people go to great lengths to stir the pot on a forum , but I'm not saying this is a case of that.

I just feel like the op may have unknowingly engaged the trigger while unholstering ... When the shot went off that would scare any person blue and maybe he truly feels he didn't touch the trigger ..

But from all of his posts , I do not see him placing a gun on a table and it decides to go bang on its own ... I just don't see how that is possible regardless of the "suicide trigger job"--from the new guns prior owner that he noticed after 150rds on his new glock that he took apart and put back together with no issue" ...

If he dropped it okay then maybe I could believe this story , but the random going off ? Nope.

I don't mean any disrespect but, it's been beaten to death that the OP did not unholster. Maybe I'm not sure of what term to use. He said he removed the holster with the gun in it, trigger completely covered. I wouldn't call that unholstering.
I don't know of the OP outside of this thread and I don't know of his familiarity with Glock outside of this suspect model. I only recall him saying he has other carry guns. I don't remember him specifying if they are Glocks as well. Maybe it's his first one. When I bought my first Glock, I could field strip it in 5 seconds but that didn't mean I knew exactly what shape to look for on the trigger bar or FP lug. I only knew what MY Glock looked/felt like. Not what all were supposed to look/feel like.
My interest was peaked when he said his had a test fire date from Oct. 2010 because I have a 27 from the same month. Now I'm no Glock armorer but despite never doing a detail strip to this one, I'm satisfied that I have properly inspected and found my gun to be safe. But, like I said, I'm no armorer. Before searching the internet on the subject, all I knew about the system was where the gas went and how to make it go. Now, that's not the case.
I'm with others on believing no store has a 2 year difference between test fire and sale. Mine was just over 2 months. I see no reason to cast disbelief on the OP, but can understand skepticism. I've heard someone say their Glock fired while it was sitting in a cabinet with nobody around it and someone was struck in the chest. I'd definitely call BS on that and leave it behind. The movement in the OP's case and bent parts found make me want to listen. I made my mind up many pages ago about what happened and as it turns out, that's what has been reported as happening. Now, maybe you are right. But if I had been in his shoes and caused an ND with my own fiddling or carelessness, I sure as hell wouldn't tell anyone.
I just want to know what happens with FF&F when the gun and paperwork come in. I betting they claim the OP did the trigger job himself and deny, deny, deny.

[dosei]

Originally Posted by .38 super

I agree about the Glock's 92 Tech Bulleting, but remind me please - I was under impression that Frisbee test only was cracking the frame/grip when dropped with full mag... ?

No, the frisbee test was not only cracking of the frame...it was also that the gun was going off on impact.

[berfles]

Can someone who has followed this thread from day one provide cliffs of the important info? I really don't want to read through 25 pages of bickering, I just want to know the facts.

[Southwind]

OP plus post #159 pretty well sums it up.

Originally Posted by berfles

Can someone who has followed this thread from day one provide cliffs of the important info? I really don't want to read through 25 pages of bickering, I just want to know the facts.

[PEC-Memphis]

Originally Posted by dosei

No, the frisbee test was not only cracking of the frame...it was also that the gun was going off on impact.

And if I remember correctly, the slide was coming off of the frame as well.

[dosei]

Originally Posted by berfles

Can someone who has followed this thread from day one provide cliffs of the important info? I really don't want to read through 25 pages of bickering, I just want to know the facts.

In a nutshell:

The original post:

Originally Posted by 00Gl***

Had an extremely dangerous and scary experience today.. I cant even describe how upset I am over this. Do not know how to completely explain how this just happened but here goes.

I came home from my daily errands today. I have my CCW and carry on a daily basis. Well after I walk into the house and put groceries etc down, I take my NEW G23 gen 4 in the holster off of my belt, and set it down on my kitchen table....as I sent it down THE PISTOL FIRES!! Right into my living room wall!!! I truly do not know how it was even able to?! MY finger was no where near the trigger...It was in a Serpa Holster so I was totally unable to pull the trigger even if I wanted too!! I did not throw the $@%$ pistol down hard onto the table or anything....I literally set it down like I always do... Thank God the GF wasnt home, the bullet did not go through the outer wall of my home, and myself nor neighbors were injured or worse....

I am just completely in shock over this..I have never in my life had this happen, I wouldnt think it was remotely possible... especially with a Glock(and I have owned many glocks as well as other pistols over the past 10 years now with no AD/ND or anything ever) I have since put the now unloaded pistol in its case and I am going to be calling Glock tomorrow morning....

Does anyone know how this is possible?! Or have they had this happen before?! I truly am just shocked and amazed over this. I checked the Glocks function and it seemed normal, the ejected casing had a normal firing pin strike on the primer (obviously since the pistol fired, but I wanted to make sure the round somehow didnt fire of its own accord)

I just truly do not trust this weapon at all now and am just very upset and didnt know where else to put this.



UPDATE 12/12/2012
Ok, talked to a Glock rep today. Glock replaced multiple parts. They informed me that it looked as if their was a trigger job done to it at some point in time. No other info from them on the issue though. I definitely did not do this...so it is for sure used. They said I should have my pistol back in 2 days though! So that is a plus.

So at this point in time I think I need to begin dealing with Fin Feather Fur in Ashland about selling me a used weapon as new.

Post #159:

Originally Posted by 00Gl***

Hey again guys!

OK so due to the amount of questions and responses it is hard for me to respond to them all, so I apologize if I miss some of them! Also I have been at work all day so no way to post until now.

Anyways, SO took it to a SECOND Glock Armorer today, and thank goodness I did, I now have an answer,

#1- Firing pin block spring was bent, not straight like it should have been!!!

#2 The "sear" is not engaging the lug on the firing pin assembly properly!!

He says that since both of these issues are there, that It is highly likely that the pistol fired from the "half cocked" position. Obviously I am now having him ship this to GLOCK to correct this issue immediately. This is pretty ridiculous that a brand new pistol had these MAJOR defects. I am sure Glock will make it right though.

I have fired the pistol before and never had an issue with it, so IDK how this had not fired while in the holster before....I am just extremely thankful it didnt hurt myself or anyone else!!

Very thankful to a fellow poster here that told me to specifically have my armorer look at these parts closely!!

Gun was sent to Glock, here is what they had to say about it (you will notice the OP also edited their first post to include this info, making the very first post all you really need to read in order to get the "Cliffnotes" version of this thread):

Originally Posted by 00Gl***

Ok, talked to a Glock rep today. Glock replaced multiple parts. They informed me that it looked as if their was a trigger job done to it at some point in time. No other info from them on the issue though. I definitely did not do this...so it is for sure used. They said I should have my pistol back in 2 days though! So that is a plus.

So at this point in time I think I need to begin dealing with Fin Feather Fur in Ashland about selling me a used weapon as new.

[dosei]

Originally Posted by PEC-Memphis

And if I remember correctly, the slide was coming off of the frame as well.

Yes. The slide/frame seperation (due to cracking of the frame) also caused sear/striker seperation, releasing the striker from the preload position (the sear being part of the trigger bar which resides in the frame and the striker residing in the slide). The g-forces created from the spinning gun coming to an abrupt stop were ample enough to cause the firing pin block to move out of the way of the firing pin/striker.

[Rick305]

Originally Posted by INEEDMILK

Yes...I don't doubt that it is possible that some idiot at the gun store messed with the internals of this new Glock.

What I am questioning is how the OP fired 150 rounds through his new Glock AND did an inspection of the parts, and nothing stood out as abnormal. If the trigger bar was so worn down that a slight bump could set it off, he would have noticed that at the range, right???

Also, if it was excessively Dremmeled or whatever, that means that this problem would be recreateable, meaning that he could set up this same situation again (round in the chamber, gun dropped on the table) and the gun would go off again. However, the OP said that the gun "seemed fine" afterward.

Please explain that to me...

^^^^ this.

I hate to sound like an @$$ but I'd say this is possibly the best /most successful forum trolling story ever --

[Jayhawk1984]

To OP Thanks For Posting this the abuse and bickering was unbelievable your patience is appreciated. Please come back with the final report from Glock.

I believe I learned a few things others have mentioned.

1. Sealed carton, box or whatever on the firearm being purchased so one knows it came from factory to your purchase.

2. Things can happen and it apparently took at least two major fails for the pistol to fire from a bump in a holster on a table.

[INEEDMILK]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk1984

2. Things can happen and it apparently took at least two major fails for the pistol to fire from a bump in a holster on a table.

Yea. Two major catastrophic failures that both happened independent of anything done by the OP, but then also fixed themselves after the gun went off.

[WilliamDahl]

Originally Posted by INEEDMILK

Yea. Two major catastrophic failures that both happened independent of anything done by the OP, but then also fixed themselves after the gun went off.

It must be nice to have that sort of unbridled faith in something designed by someone else. As an engineer who has designed systems where the lives of others could be lost if there was a problem with my designs, I have to thank you for the vote of confidence in us engineers.

Caca pasa...

Remember the Mars Climate Orbiter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter

Ooops... Glad I wasn't on that project... That would be kind of hard to live down...

[Dave.1]

Originally Posted by WilliamDahl

Remember the Mars Climate Orbiter?

Luckily for the scientific community people don't remember that stuff. Remember the lens on the Hubble?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope

Dave

[WilliamDahl]

Originally Posted by Dave.1

Luckily for the scientific community people don't remember that stuff. Remember the lens on the Hubble?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_Space_Telescope

Nothing that a supersize contact lens couldn't fix...

[eccho]

Originally Posted by 00Gl***

Had an extremely dangerous and scary experience today.. I cant even describe how upset I am over this. Do not know how to completely explain how this just happened but here goes.

I came home from my daily errands today. I have my CCW and carry on a daily basis. Well after I walk into the house and put groceries etc down, I take my NEW G23 gen 4 in the holster off of my belt, and set it down on my kitchen table....as I sent it down THE PISTOL FIRES!! Right into my living room wall!!! I truly do not know how it was even able to?! MY finger was no where near the trigger...It was in a Serpa Holster so I was totally unable to pull the trigger even if I wanted too!! I did not throw the $@%$ pistol down hard onto the table or anything....I literally set it down like I always do... Thank God the GF wasnt home, the bullet did not go through the outer wall of my home, and myself nor neighbors were injured or worse....

I am just completely in shock over this..I have never in my life had this happen, I wouldnt think it was remotely possible... especially with a Glock(and I have owned many glocks as well as other pistols over the past 10 years now with no AD/ND or anything ever) I have since put the now unloaded pistol in its case and I am going to be calling Glock tomorrow morning....

Does anyone know how this is possible?! Or have they had this happen before?! I truly am just shocked and amazed over this. I checked the Glocks function and it seemed normal, the ejected casing had a normal firing pin strike on the primer (obviously since the pistol fired, but I wanted to make sure the round somehow didnt fire of its own accord)

I just truly do not trust this weapon at all now and am just very upset and didnt know where else to put this.



UPDATE 12/12/2012
Ok, talked to a Glock rep today. Glock replaced multiple parts. They informed me that it looked as if their was a trigger job done to it at some point in time. No other info from them on the issue though. I definitely did not do this...so it is for sure used. They said I should have my pistol back in 2 days though! So that is a plus.

So at this point in time I think I need to begin dealing with Fin Feather Fur in Ashland about selling me a used weapon as new.

As a glock owner and member of this community, I thank you for sharing this story. Hopefully we can learn from it, and appreciate that no one was hurt. I'm sure someone here will say "you musta dunnit yerself". Screw that guy.

I'm very curious about "glock replaced multiple parts. It sounds like it was a defective gun issue.

Maybe someone dicked up a trigger job?

Good luck man, my understanding is that this kind of thing is exceedingly rare.

[Glockrunner]

Originally Posted by eccho

As a glock owner ....
I'm very curious about "glock replaced multiple parts. It sounds like it was a defective gun issue.

Maybe someone dicked up a trigger job?

Good luck man, my understanding is that this kind of thing is exceedingly rare.

Maybe you're right!
Not only is it rare, but pretty much non-existant. The drop safety would prevent this event from happening.

I tend to go with the growing crowd, TROLL.

[whitey4311]

My stupid glock goes off every time the trigger is pulled. Is it broken, should I send it back?

[4949shooter]

Originally Posted by whitey4311

My stupid glock goes off every time the trigger is pulled. Is it broken, should I send it back?

I wish Glock would get it right.

[dango]

Originally Posted by Southwind

OP plus post #159 pretty well sums it up.

Only one the owner or two , whomever tampered with it will ever really know what happened here . I have pretty much been following this thread since the beginning .

One thing I will take from this is that one can never be to safe !

[m814]

Originally Posted by 00Gl***

I looked and couldnt find anything out of the ordinary in the holster, it is a blackhawk cqc holster with the finger button. I will have to check again. That was my second suspect.

The holster would have been my FIRST thought. Serpa holsters engage the trigger guard area for retention. Any movement or loose fit can cause this to happen. SERPA holster are probably the second most unsafe holster on market. Right next to old generic fit Uncle Mikes.

[cowboy1964]

Originally Posted by m814

The holster would have been my FIRST thought. Serpa holsters engage the trigger guard area for retention. Any movement or loose fit can cause this to happen. SERPA holster are probably the second most unsafe holster on market. Right next to old generic fit Uncle Mikes.

You didn't read very far into this thread, did ya?