[NMG26]

Originally Posted by cglaspel

I apologize to the rest of you for my somewhat agitated last post, I am just getting sick of these people continuing to be skeptical and saying im bullsh%$$#%^ you all for the fun of it. I mean come on, quit wasting my time with that. I have no reason to fabricate this.... I just don't get people.

I want to know who tampered with the gun.

For a long time I carried a Glock that I bought used, appendix carry, in a Remora holster. I was under the the impression that Glocks don't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

From this thread I can see that maybe I was crazy. If a bad trigger job can cause a Glock to just go off, I no longer will carry one like that.

Who done it? I want to know.

[00Glazz]

Originally Posted by NMG26

I want to know who tampered with the gun.

For a long time I carried a Glock that I bought used, appendix carry, in a Remora holster. I was under the the impression that Glocks don't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

From this thread I can see that maybe I was crazy. If a bad trigger job can cause a Glock to just go off, I no longer will carry one like that.

Who done it? I want to know.

Trust me, I KNOW what you mean lol. I am hopefully going to find out soon enough!

[00Glazz]

Originally Posted by clarkz71

I know for a fact there are gun shops that take in guns
on trade and if they "look" new, they'll put them out as new.

Say I buy a new G17 gen4. I get home and read about all
the BTF and eratic ejection problems. I say screw this and
I take the gun back to the LGS. Is he going to give me 100%
refund or full value to trade for anther gun? No, because
it's now used gun. No different then buying a new car, driving
down the road 5 miles and coming back to the dealer.

They can't sell it as new now, it's had it's first owner.
Only the first owner gets a new car, or gun

I for one believe the OP (cglaspel) that he was sold a used gun
as new and that the first owner modded the gun.

Thank you, I appreciate it!

[clarkz71]

. .

[dosei]

Originally Posted by NMG26

I want to know who tampered with the gun.

For a long time I carried a Glock that I bought used, appendix carry, in a Remora holster. I was under the the impression that Glocks don't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

From this thread I can see that maybe I was crazy. If a bad trigger job can cause a Glock to just go off, I no longer will carry one like that.

Who done it? I want to know.

A Glock produced after April 1992 (or one produced prior but with the proper upgrades listed in the 1992 Glock Technical Bulletin) in proper functioning condition will not go off unless the trigger is pulled...or at least nobody has found a way to make it happen yet.

A Glock that has been dickered with is a completely different animal and all bets are off. All it takes is a tiny bit of common sense to understand that a person can dicker up something...anything.

And it is really unimportant for you to know who. What are you going to do, write their name down and not buy guns that they have touched but still blindly trust all other guns that someone has messed with? Stop getting yourself stuck in tunnel-vision, step back, and understand the big picture people.

[Dave.1]

Originally Posted by cglaspel

I apologize to the rest of you for my somewhat agitated last post, I am just getting sick of these people continuing to be skeptical and saying im bullsh%$$#%^ you all for the fun of it. I mean come on, quit wasting my time with that. I have no reason to fabricate this.... I just don't get people.

I take what you say as truthful, no problem.

But you might want to be ready if you take it back to the store for the kind of doubt you're seeing here. If you know the people they'll probably trust you. But, if they are just a big chain, they may be looking to cover their rears by blaming you.

Good luck, hope you get it resolved.

Dave

[NMG26]

Originally Posted by dosei

And it is really unimportant for you to know who. What are you going to do, write their name down and not buy guns that they have touched but still blindly trust all other guns that someone has messed with? Stop getting yourself stuck in tunnel-vision, step back, and understand the big picture people.

Who does matter. Was it a trigger job done by a certified Glock smith?

What matters. What kind of trigger job can make this happen?

Can I trust a used Glock ever again, even if it is checked out by a professional? It matters. Unless you think getting your nutz shot off does not matter.

Tunnel vision? Yes it is what this thread is about. One specific thing.



.

[kodiakpb]

Originally Posted by NMG26

I want to know who tampered with the gun.

For a long time I carried a Glock that I bought used, appendix carry, in a Remora holster. I was under the the impression that Glocks don't go off unless the trigger is pulled.

From this thread I can see that maybe I was crazy. If a bad trigger job can cause a Glock to just go off, I no longer will carry one like that.

Who done it? I want to know.

Yet you still see everybody and their mother doing .25 cent trigger jobs.

Look it's really easy to determine if this weapon had two owners. Get the ATF involved...and it's a done deal. I have my doubts that the weapon was used and sold as new from this store. I'll be standing by for the results.

[Leigh]

[QUOTE=kodiakpb;19730492]Look it's really easy to determine if this weapon had two owners. Get the ATF involved...and it's a done deal.

Yeah, it's a done deal...

ATF will politely tell you to seek your information elsewhere and they will have nothing to do with it unless the weapon was used in the commission of a crime.

ATF does not keep any records whatsoever on firearms legally purchased from an exisiting FFL.

[SARDG]

Originally Posted by NMG26

Who does matter. Was it a trigger job done by a certified Glock smith?

What matters. What kind of trigger job can make this happen?

Can I trust a used Glock ever again, even if it is checked out by a professional? It matters. Unless you think getting your nutz shot off does not matter...

I've never heard of a Certified (by Glock) gunsmith. Glock certifies armorers and advanced armorers. Being a Certified Glock Armorer, I have seen the work of butchers who claim to be gunsmiths familiar with Glocks and who clearly don't have the most basic understanding of even simple parts replacement.

At any rate, Certified (by Glock) Armorers are not authorized to make modifications that take a Glock outside of factory specs - and that most certainly includes 'trigger jobs' of any type. Those who attend the Glock Armorer's Class hoping to get insight into various Glock mods will walk away disappointed.

When I am asked by friends to do a trigger job, I tell them that I will sit down with them as an individual - not an Armorer - and guide them along as they do their own trigger job. That's the best I can do and that alone discourages 99% of the people who ask.

In addition, Glock Armorers are also directed to install the factory parts that they sell - not just hand over parts-for-profit to a Glock owner.

[dosei]

Hopefully the store will make good on it. Stuff like this happens.

Heck, a couple days ago I bought a pack of underwear. I use to alway buy Hanes Low Rise Briefs, with the exposed elastic waistband. When I went to get some more, I discovered that Hanes no longer makes what I used to buy. And they don't mark the packages as to the "rise" anymore. I dug around on the web a bit, couldn't find anything helpful, so I bought some that looked like what I wear. Got home, carefully removed them from the package, laid one pair on a clean counter and measured from the waistband to the bottom of the crotch...and determined them to be mid-rise...and I knew I would not like them. So I carefully reassembled the package and returned them for a full refund...and I fully expect the store will put them back out and sell them as "new". Now I never put them on...and I would never return them if I had. But that does not mean someone else wouldn't/couldn't. That's right, the underwear you are wearing just might of had someone else's pork & beans riding around in 'em before you bought them thinking they were "new"...same goes for shirts, pants, shoes, jackets, and so much else.

Odds are this incident all boils down to a customer with a lack of integrity, and someone at the store that didn't know what all to look for/at to cross-check what the customer is telling them.

[abcomputin]

See if the dealer you purchased from will show you where he entered this Glock into his bound book. It will show whether it came from a distributor, another dealer, or an individual. It should also show it going outbound to you.

[PhotoFeller]

I think this situation also begs the question about the appropriateness of untrained individuals detail stripping a Glock pistol. This may be the reason the Glock manual only provides field strip instructions for cleaning and slide parts replacement.

Trigger mods by Glock owners are common, but they may be unwise if getting something installed slightly wrong or slightly changing the shape of a component could render the gun unsafe.

[kodiakpb]

[quote=Leigh;19730515]

Originally Posted by kodiakpb

Look it's really easy to determine if this weapon had two owners. Get the ATF involved...and it's a done deal.

Yeah, it's a done deal...

ATF will politely tell you to seek your information elsewhere and they will have nothing to do with it unless the weapon was used in the commission of a crime.

ATF does not keep any records whatsoever on firearms legally purchased from an exisiting FFL.

You're right, it's a consumer affairs issue that should be reported to the Attorney General's Office.

[00Glazz]

Originally Posted by abcomputin

See if the dealer you purchased from will show you where he entered this Glock into his bound book. It will show whether it came from a distributor, another dealer, or an individual. It should also show it going outbound to you.

This is a great idea. I think I will try this first.

I fully expect FF&F to move to a CYA standpoint and blame me for this. I just am still going to attempt to let them make it right. As far as taking them to court or even attempting the ATF route. I do not think I am going to go there. I have a lot of doubts about the ATF even taking me seriously, let alone "going after" a major retail store unfortunately.

I also do not think I would have a case trying to sue FF&F for anything, as well as I am not the kind of person to really sue someone unless it is absolutely necessary.

Now, I will be informing everyone at my local ranges, friends, family, internet boards and anyone else I can. About FF&F business practices, and this specific situation, as well as discouraging them from spending their money there. That much is atleast warranted in my eyes.

[00Glazz]

[quote=kodiakpb;19730652]

Originally Posted by Leigh

You're right, it's a consumer affairs issue that should be reported to the Attorney General's Office.

How exactly would I go about bringing this to their attention? Would this be along the same route as going to the BBB etc?

[blakestree]

Originally Posted by SARDG

...I tell them that I will sit down with them as an individual... ...that alone discourages 99% of the people who ask.

Really? You don't seem like you would be that bad of company.

[00Glazz]

Originally Posted by PhotoFeller

I think this situation also begs the question about the appropriateness of untrained individuals detail stripping a Glock pistol. This may be the reason the Glock manual only provides field strip instructions for cleaning and slide parts replacement.

Trigger mods by Glock owners are common, but they may be unwise if getting something installed slightly wrong or slightly changing the shape of a component could render the gun unsafe.

This is exactly why I have never detail stripped any pistol before. I leave this to qualified armorers. I also like my weapons to be 100% stock without trigger mods.

[dosei]

Originally Posted by NMG26

Who does matter. Was it a trigger job done by a certified Glock smith?

As SARDG pointed out...there is no such thing as a Glock Factory Certified Gunsmith.

Originally Posted by SARDG

Certified (by Glock) Armorers are not authorized to make modifications that take a Glock outside of factory specs - and that most certainly includes 'trigger jobs' of any type.

Glock does not certify people to take their firearms out of factory spec.

Originally Posted by NMG26

What matters. What kind of trigger job can make this happen?

A bad one. A poorly done one. A botched one. One done by someone that doesn't fully understand what they are doing.

Originally Posted by NMG26

Can I trust a used Glock ever again, even if it is checked out by a professional?

The real question is do you trust that "professional" with your life? Because that is what you are doing.

[kodiakpb]

Originally Posted by cglaspel

How exactly would I go about bringing this to their attention? Would this be along the same route as going to the BBB etc?

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/consumers

[LampShadeActual]

(1) Apparently you missed this the first time I posted it.

The Ohio Attorney General's Office is who you should get up with.

Info: http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/ocll-site/ocll-cplaw.html

Contact Info: http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/

If you click the little blue lines which it seems you know how to do, you will get info and contact numbers. Internetting don't get you squat. Talk to some real people well paid to help you. A gun dealer frigging around with used/new guns and negligent discharges will light a fire under some one there.

(2) For some D'weed to go backwards 500 posts and decide he doesn't like your story, who cares what he/they/or anyone thinks. You either are a colossal fool for bring it up or got screwed by FFF. I go with getting sold a used gun.

(3) Unless you have nothing to do, like a job or life or GF, you have posted this to death unless your only entertainment is keyboarding. Its time to resolve some of the issues and THEN report back. The coulda/woulda/shoulda just feeds the naysayers.

(4) If you are pissed, get some state muscle to help from the AG's office. The only thing FFF could be forced to do by any legal system is that they owe you the difference in cost between a new Glock and a used Glock. There isn't much else you will ever see.

But if you want to put some hurt on FFF, put the AG on them. FFF's attorney fees for that explaination will stop them from doing it again.

(5) Glock has rebuilt your pistol. All YOU can expect from FFF is a new Glock in trade for your rebuilt Glock.

(6) As a practical matter, any Glock armorer would have fixed it on the spot with those defects. The factory was just being nice because you sent it to them as a supposed new gun. The armorers would have just traded out the bad parts and made it like new safe for maybe $40. If that.

(7) The rest of this back and forth hoha is you having fun answering questions and what-ifing.

(8) My suggestion is put some hurt on FFF and then report back. You have internetted it to death. Now go do something in the real world. Connectivity devices are not the real world.

(Kindly note I am on your side, but I am noting internet forums don't result in anything besides your posting whaty-iffys.) Sally forth and kick ass.

[SCmasterblaster]

I'd get this fully checked out and figured out. Something pulled the trigger of that G23.

[Leigh]

Originally Posted by kodiakpb

You're right, it's a consumer affairs issue that should be reported to the Attorney General's Office.

I would DEFINITELY ask and expect the gun shop to show you the invoice from their distributor.

As a former FFL myself, the invoice will clearly note the make, model, AND serial number along with the the date the store purchased the weapon and date the weapon was shipped from the distributor.

If they refuse to offer something as simple as the above, they are hiding something.

As to an earlier post many pages back, there was mention of a store employee commenting on their store's policy to "clean up" new weapons prior to a sale I call BS on the clerk's story.

From the looks of the store in the previously posted photo, I find it very hard to believe they actually do such things.

If true, they are the first big gun shop I've EVER heard of doing so.

Oh, and what LampShadeActual said...

[tonyparson]

I hope they never delete this thread. That way if I ever have a AD I can throw the Glock down and tell my wife it just went off on its own and if you don't beleive it can happen sit down and read this thread.

[dosei]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

I'd get this fully checked out and figured out. Something pulled the trigger of that G23.

No...nothing pulled the trigger. Read the thread again (or for the first time?).