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Old 12-08-2012, 09:16   #351
greeneggsandsam
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Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
My Glock was made October of 2010 from the date code I got from Glock.
Also, They have not got into looking at my pistol yet. Just figured I would update you all!
the likelihood of that gun being new and sitting on the LGS' shelf for two years is not likely in my opinion. that probably means that the gun was used..

OP, was wondering if you're going to post pics of the wall or holster? I'm curious to see
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:01   #352
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Originally Posted by carloglock19 View Post
Please let us know what Glock says when you get some feedback from them. One thing for sure is that I would be counting my lucky stars, blessings etc. The gun could have gone off at any time and could have hurt, maimed or killed. Glad the outcome was favorable and all that will be needed is some spackling and fresh paint!

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In my experience Glock won't say anything. They'll replace the FP safety/spring and trigger bar and pronounce the pistol good as new (better than new in this case). That is pretty scary that a new Glock came with a defective FP safety and insufficient trigger bar / FP lug engagement. The latter, IIRC, was an issue they flirted with many years ago and produced special trigger bars to be used in the affected pistols. I haven't heard of any recent cases of it.

I'm curious...if you haven't shipped the gun off yet, with the slide removed, does the FP safety plunger move freely or tend to bind in the depressed position?
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:15   #353
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Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
I had a conversation today with one of my buddies that had worked at the store I purchased from, He said that a lot of the times, if they get a pistol on trade that is basically brand new looking and has everything as new, they will sell it as new. Not used.

They also said that depending on who checks the pistols in and logs them, that they will take them apart and clean all the copper lube etc out of them ahead of time. He made it sound like it was a personal choice of that particular employee that did this.

As far as tinkering with them, he said he had never seen anyone do that, but it wouldn't be a surprise to him if that were the case.....

So I at this point am wondering if they sold me a "NEW" gun that wasnt quite new, or somehow got put with the NEW pistols instead of the used pistols. This G23 definitely looked Brand New In Box to me. It was definitely sold to me as a Brand New Glock 23.
This store is starting to sound kind of shady.

Did your gun come with a Glock box, sealed envelope of papers, sealed small envelope with 2 fired casings in it (envelope would be dated indicating when it was test fired at the factory, which would also be a reasonably good indication of when it was manufactured), cleaning rod and clean (new) cleaning brush, and of course the mags and loader?

If you had an A/D with a used gun sold as new that a previous owner had screwed with (and made unsafe), it might be worth talking to a lawyer about demanding the store replace your gun with one that's really new, and reimburse you for whatever expenses you incurred in fixing you wall (and attorney's fees). If you were so inclined and found the right ambulance chaser, you could probably go after the store for considerably more...but that would depend on you being able to prove they sold you a used gun represented as a new gun.

I've had different experiences in different shops. Some sell new Glocks that have been opened and messed with in various ways. i.e. my G30SF bought new from a stocking dealer participating in the GSSF pistol program was open, sitting in the display case, and had an aftermarket basepad on one of its mags. The shop where I bought my G21SF (also GSSF pistol program) only considers a Glock "new" if it's still sealed in the box. When I was buying the G21SF, I asked it I could open the box and have a look at it while they did the paperwork, and was told "no, if you open it and something goes wrong with the purchase, we can't sell it as new because it's been opened." That was a minor annoyance...but at least with that shop, you know if they sell you a new Glock, it's new and still in the factory sealed case.
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Last edited by njl; 12-08-2012 at 12:10..
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:27   #354
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Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
My Glock was made October of 2010 from the date code I got from Glock.
Also, They have not got into looking at my pistol yet. Just figured I would update you all!
At the speed Glocks move through most larger dealers, I seriously doubt you just recently bought a "new" G23 made over 2 years ago. The shop should have records showing where that gun came from (i.e. who they bought it from before they resold it to you).
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:32   #355
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Originally Posted by njl View Post
This store is starting to sound kind of shady.

Did your gun come with a Glock box, sealed envelope of papers, sealed small envelope with 2 fired casings in it (envelope would be dated indicating when it was test fired at the factory, which would also be a reasonably good indication of when it was manufactured), cleaning rod and clean (new) cleaning brush, and of course the mags and loader?

If you had an A/D with a used gun sold as new that a previous owner had screwed with (and made unsafe), it might be worth talking to a lawyer about demanding the store replace your gun with one that's really new, and reimburse you for whatever expensed you incurred in fixing you wall (and attorney's fees). If you were so inclined and found the right ambulance chaser, you could probably go after the store for considerably more...but that would depend on you being able to prove they sold you a used gun represented as a new gun.

I've had different experiences in different shops. Some sell new Glocks that have been opened and messed with in various ways. i.e. my G30SF bought new from a stocking dealer participating in the GSSF pistol program was open, sitting in the display case, and had an aftermarket basepad on one of its mags. The shop where I bought my G21SF (also GSSF pistol program) only considers a Glock "new" if it's still sealed in the box. When I was buying the G21SF, I asked it I could open the box and have a look at it while they did the paperwork, and was told "no, if you open it and something goes wrong with the purchase, we can't sell it as new because it's been opened." That was a minor annoyance...but at least with that shop, you know if they sell you a new Glock, it's new and still in the factory sealed case.
I wouldn't think he would even need a lawyer if it turned out the gun was used. All he would have to do is tell the shop that if they didn't replace the gun,he would drop a dime to the BATF. SJ 40
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:39   #356
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Originally Posted by njl View Post

I've had different experiences in different shops. Some sell new Glocks that have been opened and messed with in various ways. i.e. my G30SF bought new from a stocking dealer participating in the GSSF pistol program was open, sitting in the display case, and had an aftermarket basepad on one of its mags. The shop where I bought my G21SF (also GSSF pistol program) only considers a Glock "new" if it's still sealed in the box. When I was buying the G21SF, I asked it I could open the box and have a look at it while they did the paperwork, and was told "no, if you open it and something goes wrong with the purchase, we can't sell it as new because it's been opened." That was a minor annoyance...but at least with that shop, you know if they sell you a new Glock, it's new and still in the factory sealed case.
But what we can all agree on is if the gun is sold to person A, who then takes it home and later (days, months, whatever) brings it back to the store, it is no longer new when person B buys it
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:54   #357
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I really don't think the fact a gun shop sells a used gun as new would even concern the BATF as long as the paperwork was accurate.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:55   #358
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Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
But what we can all agree on is if the gun is sold to person A, who then takes it home and later (days, months, whatever) brings it back to the store, it is no longer new when person B buys it
Correct,a gun is only new once,even if purchased yesterday taken home,Never fired and returned today it's a Used Gun forever more. SJ 40
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:50   #359
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If you had an A/D with a used gun sold as new that a previous owner had screwed with (and made unsafe), it might be worth talking to a lawyer about demanding the store replace your gun with one that's really new, and reimburse you for whatever expensed you incurred in fixing you wall (and attorney's fees). If you were so inclined and found the right ambulance chaser, you could probably go after the store for considerably more...but that would depend on you being able to prove they sold you a used gun represented as a new gun.
Once you get lawyers involved in things, BOTH parties lose...

The store can claim that the customer must have disassembled the firearm for cleaning and damaged it when he put it back together or that it came from Glock that way.

Last edited by WilliamDahl; 12-08-2012 at 14:32..
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:50   #360
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Man i would still have the pistol checked by Glock just to be safe, maybe they will replace the trigger mechanism or something just to be on the safe side, just my 2 cents but id definitely have it checked anyway.


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Old 12-08-2012, 12:09   #361
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Originally Posted by WilliamDahl View Post
Once you get lawyers involved in things, BOTH parties lose...

The store can claim that the customer must have disassembled the firearm for cleaning and damaged it when it put it back together or that it came from Glock that way.
If Glock can show that the gun was ownrd by someone else by checking the S/N that would be the end of the story fot the store. I would think.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:24   #362
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If Glock can show that the gun was ownrd by someone else by checking the S/N that would be the end of the story fot the store. I would think.
I don't think Glock would have any way of knowing for sure if someone else owned it unless they'd sent in the warranty registration card.

Glock sells guns to distributors. AFAIK, stores, depending on their size, either order directly from Glock or from above mentioned distributors. Once Glock sells a gun to a distributor, I doubt they have any idea what happens to it.

I doubt the ATF would care either. I don't see that form 4473 has any place to enter whether a firearm is being sold to a non-FFL for the first time...they just want the buyer's ID info, the seller's ID/FFL info, and a description (make/model) of the firearm(s) being transferred.

But selling a used firearm as new is fraud. If it was modified and safeties disabled by a prior owner, and then resold as new, that's even worse, and a practice that store needs to stop doing (if they are doing it).
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Old 12-08-2012, 14:12   #363
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Somethings wrong with a 2 year old test fire date.

I bought my G23 in August, test fire date was late March, 2012
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Old 12-08-2012, 14:35   #364
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I doubt the ATF would care either.
This ATF is not in the business of ensuring that we have quality firearms (which probably is the only thing that they *should* be doing to justify their very existence). They are in the business of unconstitutionally infringing upon our 2nd Amendment guaranteed RIGHTS.
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Old 12-08-2012, 14:37   #365
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Somethings wrong with a 2 year old test fire date.

I bought my G23 in August, test fire date was late March, 2012
Maybe, maybe not... Sometimes items get pulled from the top of the stack instead of the bottom... FILO queue -- First In, Last Out... Or LIFO queue -- Last In, First Out... Depending upon which way you want to look at it...

Last edited by WilliamDahl; 12-08-2012 at 14:43..
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Old 12-08-2012, 14:40   #366
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What a strange accident. I would jettison the holster. Keep the G23 - there's nothing wrong with it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 15:03   #367
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Do you recall why the striker "pre-load" was originally designed to "fire a round if released"? Thanks.
From another discussion in another thread...
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By preloading the striker, the overall striker travel that must be generated by the trigger can be greatly reduced. Since the striker now does not need to travel very far, the trigger can be designed with more mechanical advantage resulting in a trigger that travels a littler farther than the striker (the movement ratio is not 1:1) but also does not impart the full spring pressure to the trigger finger of the operator (as the VP70 did). Gaston studied various firearm designs that had "precock" or "halfcock" positions for the hammer and found that many of them did have the hammer cocked enough to fire if released from that position. Gaston documented these designs and designed the Glock to have a little less preload than the firearms he found to have the greatest preloaded condition. He was quite resolute in his belief that the Glock could never possibly fire unless the trigger was being pulled. And if the trigger is being pulled then obviously someone wants the gun to fire...needs the gun to fire. So if some type of failure were to occur while the trigger was being pulled, resulting in the striker being released early, the gun would still fire (and potentially save the life of the user). Gaston knew that for the gun to find it's way into the majority of LEO's holsters (remember, this was back in 1982) it would need to be listed as a DA trigger by the BATF. So he designed the most "un-DA" trigger he could yet still be just within an arguable "DA" trigger design.
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Old 12-08-2012, 15:25   #368
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From another discussion in another thread...
Thanks, dosei. Good explanation. The way Gaston designed the striker pre-load was pretty smart if there could actually be a malfunction during trigger pull that would interfere with normal striker operation. I'm not smart enough to know what might cause such a malfunction. Gaston was a savvy guy.

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Old 12-08-2012, 16:59   #369
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Maybe, maybe not... Sometimes items get pulled from the top of the stack instead of the bottom... FILO queue -- First In, Last Out... Or LIFO queue -- Last In, First Out... Depending upon which way you want to look at it...
Like bread in a grocery store, the smart merchant uses FIFO on any product.
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Old 12-08-2012, 17:16   #370
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Like bread in a grocery store, the smart merchant uses FIFO on any product.
That's how I see it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 18:05   #371
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Lowjiber, I have the same setup with the M&P 9 and a Sherpa. This is bothersome.
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Old 12-08-2012, 18:32   #372
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Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
My Glock was made October of 2010 from the date code I got from Glock.
Also, They have not got into looking at my pistol yet. Just figured I would update you all!

I live on an island in the middle of the pacific and all the Glocks I have bought have had a test fire date no earlier than 3 months from date of purchase (I bought a 21c in June, test fire date was 5-11-12). Something seems fishy, how was the condition of the sticker on the box?
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Old 12-08-2012, 19:25   #373
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I live on an island in the middle of the pacific and all the Glocks I have bought have had a test fire date no earlier than 3 months from date of purchase (I bought a 21c in June, test fire date was 5-11-12). Something seems fishy, how was the condition of the sticker on the box?
On the other hand, I live in Arkansas where just about everyone totes a weapon of some kind. I bought my 21SF two weeks ago from a local, major dealer and my test fire date was 3/2012. Either way, a two year old test fire dated gun does seem fishy.
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Old 12-08-2012, 22:27   #374
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Like bread in a grocery store, the smart merchant uses FIFO on any product.
Firearms are a bit different than bread and other perishables with respect to shelf life. Still, FIFO makes perfect sense for guns, too. It avoids having a gun in inventory for a long time past it's date of manufacture.
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Old 12-08-2012, 23:01   #375
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Firearms are a bit different than bread and other perishables with respect to shelf life. Still, FIFO makes perfect sense for guns, too. It avoids having a gun in inventory for a long time past it's date of manufacture.
At my local sporting goods chain store, the handguns are kept in a large safe. It's packed pretty full and I have to suspect that the minimum wage kid that works behind the counter just grabs the first one that he sees and doesn't care whether it is the gun that has been in inventory the longest or not.
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