Ok, guys. Need your help for a big money bet.

Detectorist · 11-30-2012, 17:37

I was debating with a friend on which drug gives the user the most strength when fighting the Cops.

I say PCP. He says Meth.

Lunch is riding on this...

CW Mock · 11-30-2012, 17:52

Fought people on both. You can break meth heads and they give up. You can break PCP junkies and they beat you with stubs.

One of the scariest fights I have ever been in was a suspect that smoked weed laced with PCP. I arrived solo to an "unknown problem" and was jumped almost immediately. Where I'm at backup is usually between 15-30 minutes away. It got there in about 12, and I was to the point I was going to have to use my pistol to end the fight. Nothing worked at all (also cemented the ASP baton as a REMF genius idea in my opinion). It took several of us to finally get control. I wasn't hurt, and the suspect fully recovered.

PCP junkies are like the damn Terminator. No pity, no remorse, and no reason ... And they just won't stop until you are dead, LOL

Most the meth heads I have tangled with try to run, and then usually give up after being slammed around. Some fight pretty hard, but not PCP hard. Those fools really can rumble.

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blueiron · 11-30-2012, 18:01

It's been a while since PCP was prevalent around here and when it was, less lethal was still a new CALEA rally cry, but I can still recall the beat downs we gave and the injuries I got in return.

Meth builds up strength, only to literally tear the body down and apart. A veteran meth user doesn't have the über-strength to continue for long. Because of this, I'll vote PCP every time. Give an old woman PCP and she'll give most thirty year old cops a run for their lives.

Officer X · 11-30-2012, 18:05

Natty Ice....

nikerret · 11-30-2012, 18:09

Bath salts trumps meth. I've never fought someone on PCP, but I did see a kid in my high school walk through a glass door and didn't seem to mind.

Meth loses to the other two.

How about bath salts and PCP?

banger · 11-30-2012, 18:48

PCP scares me to death....

I had one that you could kill but could not hurt.

Finally got him subdued, (with the help of at least 4 other cops).

Called for an ambulance, hand cuffed each hand to a rail on the gurney...

Subject proceeded to flex his arm until rail on one side actually broke completely in half.

Got to the hospital, the E,R, gave him a shot of Thorazine big enough to put out a horse....

He looked around and the shot had ZERO effect. It took a second to get him somewhat calmed.

Honest to goodness...I truly thought I was going to have to shoot him (multiple times) to get out of this alive.

SCARRY!!!!

Honestly, you could break this guys arm and he would only continue to fight.

No pain technique had any effect.

RocPO · 11-30-2012, 18:54

PCP.

Scary **** walking up on a dude who's worshipping a tree and you interrupt the ceremony.

***Sam Spade*** · 11-30-2012, 19:14

PCP. The way it dissociates the brain from the body is the stuff of horror films. Had one guy that came running on Southern AZ asphalt in the middle of the summer. Literally burnt and abraded the flesh off his feet until the soles were bone and flopping tendon and he wouldn't stop.

The stuff was once used as a surgical anesthesic---inject the horse and cut it open type stuff.

m2hmghb · 11-30-2012, 19:18

PCP for sure. I still remember a medic friend of my father's coming around with his nose really effed up from a guy on PCP. 4 cops 2 medics and the guy was still able to do that, in addition to cracked ribs.

nikerret · 11-30-2012, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Spade

Had one guy that came running on Southern AZ asphalt in the middle of the summer. Literally burnt and abraded the flesh off his feet until the soles were bone and flopping tendon and he wouldn't stop.

Can you imagine the pain he felt when that stuff wore off?

Sharky7 · 11-30-2012, 19:25

This was so dangerous they stopped making it in the US

blueiron · 11-30-2012, 20:12

lawman800 · 11-30-2012, 22:08

PCP everytime, but some bath salts are getting up there... like that zombie that was eating faces and wouldn't die after being shot.

RyanNREMTP · 11-30-2012, 22:34

PCP from everything I hear. Meth is nothing compared to it.

CW Mock · 11-30-2012, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawman800

PCP everytime, but some bath salts are getting up there... like that zombie that was eating faces and wouldn't die after being shot.

Bath Salts are a whole 'nother tier of special dude. :rofl

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JimIsland · 11-30-2012, 22:57

Never had any experience with either so I'd only be guessing. However, i got in a fight with a punk jacked up on Crank....he lost but damn he was a handful

Pepper45 · 12-01-2012, 01:40

The last experience I had with someone on PCP fighting, I was an Explorer, so we're talking 20 years ago. I watched this normal sized guy with a 250 pound firefighter kneeling on each arm, and three guys holding down his torso and legs, physically throw the firemen on his arms several feet. He ripped his biceps apart, I learned later.

I saw x-rays and heard a story of a cop (one of my first FTO's) who had to hammer a guy across the shins with his baton because he was going to fight. Hit him several times, and finally withdrew and drew his pistol because the baton strikes were having zero effect. After eventually getting the guy locked down in the car, they realized the guy's legs didn't look right, so they ordered up an ambulance. Guy got transported, and it turned out he had massive fractures of both shins, he shouldn't have been able to stand, let alone advance on the deputy.

lawman800 · 12-01-2012, 07:41

One SWAT guy I know said they faced an armed duster and they had to open fire and basically blew the guy's heart out, and the guy kept fighting until he bled out completely and collapsed from lack of blood in his body causing shutdown, not because he was walking dead without a beating heart.

DaBigBR · 12-01-2012, 08:53

PCP vs Methamphetamine

PCP is a dissociative anesthetic. The term is self defining. As mentioned, it dissociates the body and the brain and has an anesthetic effect. Nasty stuff.

Methamphetamine is a CNS Stimulant. It jacks you up, but does not really have the analgesic or anesthetic effect. Cocaine has an anesthetic effect, but not like dissociative anesthetics do.

Bath Salts

Cocaine and Methamphetamine are both CNS Stimulants, but the mechanism of action is different. Cocaine inhibits reuptake of dopamine, norepinepherine, and serotonin while methamphetamine increases production. Bath salts ("MDPV" and other synthetic cathinones) do BOTH. In other words, they increase dopamine production and inhibit reuptake.

Here is a good article that explains the drug:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/multimedia/bath-salts/

Also very scary stuff.

scottydl · 12-01-2012, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawman800

PCP everytime, but some bath salts are getting up there... like that zombie that was eating faces and wouldn't die after being shot.

Toxicology reports showed that guy was not on bath salts. The media just wanted everyone to believe that, so they did. Only marijuana and some prescription drugs in his system IIRC. I believe his craziness ended up being attributed to paranoid schizophrenia.

Not to say a bath salts user couldn't/wouldn't do that (because they could) ... but just a point of fact.

lawman800 · 12-01-2012, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottydl

Toxicology reports showed that guy was not on bath salts. The media just wanted everyone to believe that, so they did. Only marijuana and some prescription drugs in his system IIRC. I believe his craziness ended up being attributed to paranoid schizophrenia.

Not to say a bath salts user couldn't/wouldn't do that (because they could) ... but just a point of fact.

You're right... dang it... totally forgot the truth because it got no real coverage. I remember that after the reports, everyone was wondering how did that guy withstand being shot up so badly and not die on the spot.

DaBigBR · 12-01-2012, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottydl

Toxicology reports showed that guy was not on bath salts. The media just wanted everyone to believe that, so they did. Only marijuana and some prescription drugs in his system IIRC. I believe his craziness ended up being attributed to paranoid schizophrenia.

Not to say a bath salts user couldn't/wouldn't do that (because they could) ... but just a point of fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawman800

You're right... dang it... totally forgot the truth because it got no real coverage. I remember that after the reports, everyone was wondering how did that guy withstand being shot up so badly and not die on the spot.

The lack of something in a toxicology report does not mean it was not there. Testing for synthetic cathinones is till a challenge, and remember that incident was some time ago. We routinely submit urine specimens for synthetic drugs where we know that they should be positive because the subject admits to regular use off to NMS, but have still never had a positive result. The compounds tested for our behind what is being sold on the street, some of the metabolites degrade quickly, etc. I think that to test urine for MDPV the labs want the sample within 72 hours of collection.

**Hack** · 12-01-2012, 15:33

That PCP is a freak maker!

Sent from my communicator.

Kingarthurhk · 12-01-2012, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detectorist

I was debating with a friend on which drug gives the user the most strength when fighting the Cops.

I say PCP. He says Meth.

Lunch is riding on this...

PCP without a doubt.

blueiron · 12-02-2012, 04:42

So... the question remains.

Where are you going to lunch and what are you going to have now that you won?