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Old 04-07-2013, 04:31   #1
willy1094
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Can almost carry at work....

If you want to skip the long back story then go straight to the *** This thread is mostly for people knowledgeable in Kentucky law .

I work for a non-sworn county agency in Kentucky. Up until the new(ish) law passed forcing city/county governments to remove laws against carrying guns into their buildings I could not legally carry since our office is in the City building. A few months back, I found the pistol my wanted and bought it. She was at work at the time, she works at the same office, and I told her I would bring it by to show her but asked her to clear it with the boss first. He told her it was illegal and she educated him on the new law but he still wasn't sure without the County's go ahead. So we waited until she went on break.

Prior to this I hadn’t really thought about or looked into whether or not we had a policy on carrying at work. I went through the manual and couldn’t find anything so I asked “the boss” if he knew what the county policy is (we are “supposed” to be under county policy). He said he did not and that he would meet with them. Even though the county is primarily Republican I did not have my hopes high. Well, he came back three days ago saying that the county was ok with it! AWESOME!!

Here is the hitch. Now he is going to the city (who does not play nice with county) to ask them what they think. We lease our office space in the City Building along with a couple other county offices and the utilities. The city police department is also in this building. I don’t see the city going for it since it would be a rub against what the county says it ok along with other reasons.

*** My questions are:

-Can the property owner ban people from carrying on their property even if they have their employer’s ok? My understanding of what I’ve read it that they can’t.

-In a situation where the police department is in the same building, at what point would you be considered “in” the police department? Once you are beyond their secured doors to their offices? I assume that the police department would not be considered as occupying the entire building or the county would have spoken up and said that carry would be against the law.

-If the city says no, but the county (my employer) says yes, the boss will says it’s a no go. What would you do next?
Sorry for the long post!
Thanks for any input.

Last edited by willy1094; 04-07-2013 at 04:33..
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:19   #2
Bruce M
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If the city says no but the county says yes, unless you could get the county attorney to litigate the issue on your behalf, my guess is that it would amount to an expensive legal battle with no guaranteed results.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:52   #3
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The only consequence would be losing my job. Don't get me wrong, that is a big one. Anyone can legally carry in the city building. Basically it is like upper mgmt saying it is ok but a general manager saying no because owner of the building we lease says they do not like it. At that point company policy says it is ok but the manager says it is not.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:41   #4
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Yes, they can. -Can the property owner ban people from carrying on their property even if they have their employerís ok? My understanding of what Iíve read it that they canít.


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Old 04-11-2013, 11:20   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willy1094 View Post

*** My questions are:

-Can the property owner ban people from carrying on their property even if they have their employer’s ok? My understanding of what I’ve read it that they can’t.

-In a situation where the police department is in the same building, at what point would you be considered “in” the police department? Once you are beyond their secured doors to their offices? I assume that the police department would not be considered as occupying the entire building or the county would have spoken up and said that carry would be against the law.

-If the city says no, but the county (my employer) says yes, the boss will says it’s a no go. What would you do next?
Sorry for the long post!
Thanks for any input.
Here's the TX rundown on that. I realize that you're not in TX, but maybe from our perspective, it will give you avenues to follow up on.

1. Yes, the property owner can ban carry on their property even if the employer says it's ok.

2. The police department is not a banned carry zone unless:
a. they have the proper signage at the entry OR
b. if you enter the secured portion of the offices of the PD, they have a right to disarm you and place your weapon into a lock box until you leave.

3. If the city says no, they have to show a statute that gives them that authority. If there is no statute or law that gives them authority to tell you that you can't carry in an area where the state authorizes you to conceal carry, they have to follow direction from state law. A lower government cannot over ride a higher government's rule. i.e if the state says that it's illegal to walk backward, then the city can't say "well it's ok to walk backward here".

just $0.02 worth but ultimately comes down to the laws in KY
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Last edited by Lord; 04-11-2013 at 11:21..
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Old 04-11-2013, 23:51   #6
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Below it the portion of the new law that has me questioning whether or not the city has any ground to deny anyone working in a leased portion of the building to carry. I would think the county is going along with it only because of this wording. Are you able to just call up the attorney general and get a definite answer? This section only refers to open carry and not concealed carry. Cities/Counties can still ban concealed carry
(2) Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable
(3) Any person or organization specified in subsection (1) of this section shall repeal, rescind, or amend to conform, any ordinance, administrative regulation, executive order, policy, procedure, rule, or other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof within six (6) months after July 12, 2012.

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2013/02/07/2...#storylink=cpy

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Old 04-12-2013, 08:44   #7
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I have to venture this... you're putting a lot of effort into clearing the way for carrying while at work. If it's this difficult, then the safest bet is to not carry. After all this work, you may find an obscure loophole that doesn't say you CAN'T carry there, which you may feel may give you permission to carry there, but in the case where the law is unclear, then it's subject to interpretation. On that point right there, any run ins that you may have with it, will go against you initially... could be a very expensive lesson for you to learn. I would err on the side of safe in this and simply not carry at work.
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:20   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord View Post
I have to venture this... you're putting a lot of effort into clearing the way for carrying while at work. If it's this difficult, then the safest bet is to not carry. After all this work, you may find an obscure loophole that doesn't say you CAN'T carry there, which you may feel may give you permission to carry there, but in the case where the law is unclear, then it's subject to interpretation. On that point right there, any run ins that you may have with it, will go against you initially... could be a very expensive lesson for you to learn. I would err on the side of safe in this and simply not carry at work.
Thanks for your responses! To be honest I have not put any effort into this as of yet. I had a question and thought it would be a good discussions topic. I'm also not looking for any loopholes (one already exists) but looking for opinions as to what firm legal backing may exist (I say "may" since seeking legal advise on the infoweb is not advisable). As it stands, I would not get into any legal trouble since ANYONE can walk in off the street carrying a firearm into the city building so long as it is not concealed. I could, however, find myself without a job if I break a policy. They could fire me and say it is for another reason also.

Side note: I think it is funny that you can legally open carry but cities/counties can outlaw concealed carry in buildings.

Anyway, I will not push the issue anywhere near to point of being terminated and will respect what is handed down but if a law, the way I read it, were to say that an employer was NOT ALLOWED to deny you, wouldn't that raise your eyebrows a little? I'm not seeing a loophole that doesn't say I can't. I'm seeing a LAW that says THEY can't.

Please don't read any negative tone since none was intended. Just a discussion. Thanks again

ETA: I misread the part about the city being able to deny carry to a leased a business. That's for the correction. I went back and reread and must have crossed that with a property owner not allowing a renter to carry on rental property.
1. Yes, the property owner can ban carry on their property even if the employer says it's ok.

Last edited by willy1094; 04-13-2013 at 02:25..
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:03   #9
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It seems to me that the property owner has the last word here.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:24   #10
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no negatives, it's all good and a good discussion. I'm on your side in this. get this, my employer told me she is all for concealed carry and thinks anyone should be allowed to carry anywhere at anytime.... then told me to leave my gun in my car so as to not upset the masses at work... go figure
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Old 04-13-2013, 21:18   #11
willy1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord View Post
no negatives, it's all good and a good discussion. I'm on your side in this. get this, my employer told me she is all for concealed carry and thinks anyone should be allowed to carry anywhere at anytime.... then told me to leave my gun in my car so as to not upset the masses at work... go figure
I am guessing that if by some miracle the city agrees to allow carry, we will have it taken away when people start crying about being scared. I've already had one coworker voice such an opinion!

Last edited by willy1094; 04-13-2013 at 21:19..
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