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Old 11-28-2012, 13:15   #151
Lonestar 48
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Well, I would definitely jump in the water to save two of my three dogs; the third one better wait a day or two before she goes swimming. She pee'd on the floor this morning.

If I saw a cat being carried out by the tide, I might toss some chum out just to see what happened!
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Old 11-28-2012, 13:18   #152
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Originally Posted by carloglock19 View Post
The way I see it and this is just my opinion. There are 3 types of pet owners:

1. Owners who are irresponsible and abusive towards their pets

2. Owners who care, protect and have a sense of responsibility for their pets

3. Owners who idolize their pets to the point of putting a higher than human value on them

I have owned dogs, cats, fish etc. since I was a child but I was brought up with the values of example # 2 and that’s it...nothing more nothing less.
You see it this way because it suits your purpose.

You could also say, "Owners that care, protect and have a sense of responsibility not just for, but to, their pets while also recognizing that humanity if full of unspeakably evil people whose life value is far less than that of a good pet and more likely to be on par with dung." I guess that'd be about 2.5 on your scale?
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Old 11-28-2012, 13:47   #153
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Originally Posted by carloglock19 View Post
The way I see it and this is just my opinion. There are 3 types of pet owners:

1. Owners who are irresponsible and abusive towards their pets

2. Owners who care, protect and have a sense of responsibility for their pets

3. Owners who idolize their pets to the point of putting a higher than human value on them

I have owned dogs, cats, fish etc. since I was a child but I was brought up with the values of example # 2 and that’s it...nothing more nothing less.
Or my group:

4. People who places very little importance on human life, regardless of comparisons with animals.
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Old 11-28-2012, 13:50   #154
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That may be your personal belief, but it isn't mine.

I'd risk my life to save my pets. I don't necessarily feel the same about other humans or even some of my own family members.
Then you're a messed-up human being. We have no pets now, though used to have a cat or two in the past. They are animals, no more, no less. And I hate (HATE) dogs; would pay money to shoot them.
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Old 11-28-2012, 13:53   #155
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Then you're a messed-up human being. We have no pets now, though used to have a cat or two in the past. They are animals, no more, no less. And I hate (HATE) dogs; would pay money to shoot them.


You should seek psychological help.
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Old 11-28-2012, 13:54   #156
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The family created the scenario of their own demise. Had they not taught junior that "doggie is people" he would have waved goodbye to doggie like a country boy and everyone would still be alive-even the dog.

I don't share your "Opinion".
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Old 11-28-2012, 14:01   #157
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It's just Darwinism at work.
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Old 11-28-2012, 14:31   #158
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Originally Posted by carloglock19 View Post
The way I see it and this is just my opinion. There are 3 types of pet owners:

1. Owners who are irresponsible and abusive towards their pets

2. Owners who care, protect and have a sense of responsibility for their pets

3. Owners who idolize their pets to the point of putting a higher than human value on them

I have owned dogs, cats, fish etc. since I was a child but I was brought up with the values of example # 2 and that’s it...nothing more nothing less.
You "#3" has a serious flaw.

There is no "absolute" value to a human life. If, for instance, a person decides to become a suicide bomber, they haven't put a high enough value on their own life to make if worthwhile for someone else to cae if they live or not. The same with a low life criminal, a child murderer has decided that his life is not of the same value as, say, a pediatrician.

Simply because one is born does not guarantee that one's life has more value than that of a good dog, or in some cases, a "bad" dog. I certainly wouldn't let the FT. Hood shooter live at the cost of my dog's life, and sometimes the dog REALLY PO's me.
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Old 11-28-2012, 14:36   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The family created the scenario of their own demise. Had they not taught junior that "doggie is people" he would have waved goodbye to doggie like a country boy and everyone would still be alive-even the dog.
You don't know a thing about this family, and the only scenario being created is the one you are making up in your own head. You imagine yourself as surrounded by no good city slicker yuppies, you put words in their mouths (while ignoring their arguments), and you've decided -- on your own, in you imagination -- how this tragedy went down. People have explained to you again and again how this family didn't die trying to save a dog, and you've ignored them with all the maturity and intellect of a four year old covering their ears and shouting "LA LA LA I can't hear you."

You're the only one who's insisted this family raised their children to believe a dog is as valuable as a human. If that's how they raise their kids, why didn't the daughter jump in, too? If that's how they raise their kids, why did the son give up on saving their dog? If the family believes dogs are worth as much as humans, why didn't they all jump in when the doggie hit the water?

The plain truth is that they didn't. A 16 year old boy, somewhat impetuously (as we expect from 16 year old boys) lost something in the water that was precious to him, and decided to jump in after it. That's what 16 year old boys do, they make poor decisions on the spur of the moment. It doesn't matter that it was a dog. It could have been an expensive pair of sunglasses, it could have been a set of keys on a floatie keyring, hell, the kid might have been dared to go for a swim (because, again, that's what teenagers do).

Everything that happened after that -- everything -- wasn't about a dog or about those kids being raised poorly, it was about a family that loved each other and tried to save one another from dangerous waters. And that? That is nobility. "Greater love hath no man," ringing any bells?

It's pretty execrable, twisting what happened and insulting their memory this way, just to start an argument on the internet.

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Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
Then you're a messed-up human being. We have no pets now, though used to have a cat or two in the past. They are animals, no more, no less. And I hate (HATE) dogs; would pay money to shoot them.
Yeah. You would pay money to shoot dogs, and the other guy is a messed up human being? You've got a few wires crossed, buddy.

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It's just Darwinism at work.
This is a family that died leaping into the ocean to try and save one another, and you're doing to sully it with something so crass and banal as that, to try and earn a few internet tough guy points? Shame on you. Plain and simple: shame.

And to those who insist an animal isn't worth another human being's life -- any human being's life -- with such absolution? Bullcrap. How many of you also insist you'd use lethal force on someone who was trying to rob you (so that a wallet is worth someone's life)? How many of you also say you'd use lethal force on a stranger in your house (so that your sense of fear, but mostly your property rights, are worth someone's life)? There are lots of things society decides are worth a human being's life, depending on the scenario. And if it's a human being freely choosing, of their own volition, to risk their life in order to save something precious to them -- why does it matter if that "something" is a dog? It's their life. They can try to save whoever, or whatever, they want with it.
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Last edited by Critias; 11-28-2012 at 14:49.. Reason: typo
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Old 11-28-2012, 15:18   #160
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"Critias",

well said.
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Old 11-28-2012, 15:51   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
That is is dispicable.
Cry me a river.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I like dogs, I have always owned dogs. But, I am not some yuppie city slicker who can't tell the difference between canine and human. animal and human.
Humans are animals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Unlike you, I would gladly let my dog die, if it was a choice between saving a human life, or her life. It isn't that hard.
We've already established that we are nothing alike.



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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Oh, there are a lot of people I dislike in this life. Some of them are still alive because it is illegal and immoral to kill them. However, they still have more value than a dog.
The arrogance of the human animal never fails to amaze me.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:16   #162
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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf8634 View Post
Cry me a river.
Not crying, but astonished by weirdos.



Quote:
Humans are animals.
The other white meat?


Quote:
We've already established that we are nothing alike.
Which I am thanful for.



Quote:
The arrogance of the human animal never fails to amaze me.
Indeed, mixed with depravity and plain breathtaking foolishness.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:20   #163
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How do you have any idea what they taught their son? You sure are a presumptuous cuss, I'll give you that.
If that value hadn't been taught, he wouldn't have risked his life for a dog.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:20   #164
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Originally Posted by Lonestar 48 View Post
Well, I would definitely jump in the water to save two of my three dogs; the third one better wait a day or two before she goes swimming. She pee'd on the floor this morning.

If I saw a cat being carried out by the tide, I might toss some chum out just to see what happened!
The irony is, you would have died and they would have lived.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:20   #165
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Originally Posted by GWSHARK View Post
Would anyone kill a human to save their dog?
The interesting thing about this question, to me, is that, if I'm not mistaken, you would be completely within your legal rights to shoot and/or kill somebody who was attempting to harm/kill your dog.

What does this say about society's acceptance of dogs as family members?

And I, myself, would not hesitate.

Wallet, vehicle, etc.-I'd simply hand it over if they got the drop on me.

If they tried to harm or 'take' my dog?

"Here we go!!"

I'd take my chances expecting some inevitable loss of blood, possibly broken bones or worse.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:21   #166
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Why whenever I log on to this, I see the same folks, generally the ones that are religious make illogical arguments, then I see DD and Falman come on and correct them?

Man, and I thought maybe times have changed for the couple weeks I haven't logged into glocktalk!
This has to do with stupidity, not religion.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:28   #167
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The interesting thing about this question, to me, is that, if I'm not mistaken, you would be completely within your legal rights to shoot and/or kill somebody who was attempting to harm/kill your dog.
I don't think this is correct in all areas. I'm pretty sure here(Louisiana) your dog is your "property" and you don't have a right to deadly force to protect it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:34   #168
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SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.


Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
Someone tries to harm or take my pets, and it's on.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:39   #169
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You should seek psychological help.
That's your opinion. I respectfully disagree. And no, I don't need psychological help - those who assign human attributes to pets (i.e., furries) are the ones needing help.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:43   #170
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Someone tries to harm or take my pets, and it's on.
cuzz.......
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:44   #171
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I don't think this is correct in all areas. I'm pretty sure here(Louisiana) your dog is your "property" and you don't have a right to deadly force to protect it.
You are wrong.

I many States you can.
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Old 11-28-2012, 17:28   #172
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You are wrong.

I many States you can.
Am I wrong about Louisiana? Or the entire statement?
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Old 11-28-2012, 17:45   #173
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Am I wrong about Louisiana? Or the entire statement?
According to this site and their interpretation,

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/gun...a-Gun-Laws.htm





"Louisiana’s castle law permits the use of physical force to protect one’s self and property from “forcible crimes” and the use of deadly force in situations where circumstances are sufficient “to excite the fear of a reasonable person that there would be serious danger to his own life or person if he attempted to prevent the felony without the killing.” The statute has a “stand your ground” clause in that it does not require victims to retreat before using force, whether they’re inside their home or any other place they have a right to be."
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Old 11-28-2012, 18:05   #174
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
If that value hadn't been taught, he wouldn't have risked his life for a dog.


Once again, a gigantic assumption that continues to make an ass out of you and.........well, you.
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Old 11-28-2012, 18:08   #175
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Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
That's your opinion. I respectfully disagree. And no, I don't need psychological help - those who assign human attributes to pets (i.e., furries) are the ones needing help.


You're the one who wants to pay to shoot/kill domesticated dogs because you "hate" them. Pretty sure that aligns you with some of the most well known serial killers........good job!
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Last edited by Kilrain; 11-28-2012 at 18:09..
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