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Old 11-26-2012, 20:44   #51
Fear Night
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This reminds me of a hypothetical situation brought up on another forum I frequent. The situation was presented as follows:

Your community is hit by a terrible flood, and your pet dog is missing. You finally come across your dog and a complete stranger in the flood waters, and they are both about to drown. Do you save your dog, or the stranger? You can only choose to save one.

The results consisted of about half the people saying they would save their pet dog, while the other half ridiculed the first half for holding a dogs life higher than a humans. Hypotheticals are dumb so I declined to answer.
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Old 11-26-2012, 20:50   #52
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Originally Posted by Caver 60 View Post
No animal is worth risking even the most worthless human life over IMO.
So you are saying that you wouldn't even risk Hitler or Osama's life for that of your dog who has been completely obedient, loved your family without question, and brought joy to your life?



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Animals do not have a soul. Even the most worthless human has a soul and possibly one day they will come to know Jesus and be saved. No animal can ever do that.
Us animals(humans), are going to the same place as our animal cousins(dogs) when we die.....the ground. Then other animals can live and grow off of the our materials.
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Old 11-26-2012, 20:56   #53
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Originally Posted by Fear Night View Post
This reminds me of a hypothetical situation brought up on another forum I frequent. The situation was presented as follows:

Your community is hit by a terrible flood, and your pet dog is missing. You finally come across your dog and a complete stranger in the flood waters, and they are both about to drown. Do you save your dog, or the stranger? You can only choose to save one.

The results consisted of about half the people saying they would save their pet dog, while the other half ridiculed the first half for holding a dogs life higher than a humans. Hypotheticals are dumb so I declined to answer.
And that is exactly why I don't like the "would you risk your life?" type questions.
They automatically imply that you know your life is in jeopardy when you are doing the act. In most of these type of cases, where someone dies trying to save their pet, or their car, or whatever, it is because they think they are perfectly fine. Before they realize it they are then in over their heads and it is too late.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:25   #54
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One of the things that makes me get up and go to work every day is to see the complete loyalty and trust that our cats display in me that I will provide for them.

I don't know anyone else including my wife who have that kind of complete loyalty and trust in me.

I would go to hell and back for any of our pets.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:29   #55
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Originally Posted by UtahIrishman View Post
One of the things that makes me get up and go to work every day is to see the complete loyalty and trust that our cats display in me that I will provide for them.

I don't know anyone else including my wife who have that kind of complete loyalty and trust in me.

I would go to hell and back for any of our pets.

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Old 11-26-2012, 21:34   #56
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I probably wouldn't risk my life for most animals. I would for MY dogs.

OP doesn't have a clue.

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Old 11-26-2012, 21:35   #57
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I wouldn't expect anyone else to do so. My choice.

I give complete loyalty in return for complete loyalty...and pets do just that.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:44   #58
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I wouldn't expect anyone else to do so. My choice.

I give complete loyalty in return for complete loyalty...and pets do just that.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:46   #59
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/26...g-to-save-dog/

Ironically, the only survivor was the dog. When people overly anthropomorphize animals into pseudo-humans, this sort of thing happens. No dog is worth the death of an entire family.
This story headline could just have easily read, "Family makes bad decision, bad things happen..."

Has nothing to do with the dog. If they'd died all trying to save a child they'd still be dead and it would still be sad. If they'd saved the dog then they'd all be heroes. It has nothing to do with the dog.

Go ahead and put "going all anti-dog on GT" on the list of not the brightest ideas you've had. And what's this blather about non-vegans having ethics and priorities issues? A chicken or a cow isn't going to save me from a fire or walk 500 miles to find me. A chicken and a cow are for enjoying with other animals that will do those things, both 2 and 4 legged.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:52   #60
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Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
That may be your personal belief, but it isn't mine.

I'd risk my life to save my pets. I don't necessarily feel the same about other humans or even some of my own family members.
Thank you. I totally agree with fnfalman.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:54   #61
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I agree that it's been established that the family members perished attempting to save eachother after the boy went in after the dog.

I'd like to add that, like NEOH212 points out, if you've never really connected with an animal in your life, you probably have no concept of the experience and, for some, may not ever have the pleasure of developing that kind of unique connection.

One fact has always been very clear and profound to me: I know beyond the shadow of any doubt that my dog/dogs would absolutely give 'their' lives for 'me' without hesitation if they sensed that I was in real trouble.

That fact alone, for me, is plenty motivation for me to do the same. In the moment that a loved one's life is teetering on the edge of a cliff, all man-made rules and reputations go right out the window. It is our truest nature and yet it is foreign to so many.

As someone else stated, I believe animals show us constantly how humans could/should be. Most of the things on Earth that arrogant humans look down upon as lower life forms are actually way above us in many ways.
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:59   #62
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As someone else stated, I believe animals show us constantly how humans could/should be. Most of the things on Earth that arrogant humans look down upon as lower life forms are actually way above us in many ways.
You will never be able to explain that to the people who need to hear it the most. The people who are an embarrassment to the rest of us humans.
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:08   #63
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This thread was started on a false premise, a twisting of the facts and flawed logic so egergious that it has forced me to go to an horrifying extreme---I am forced to agree with "gunhaver".

The "rescue was a cluster *****. started by the boy going after the dog BUT I have to ask, unless this kid was raised on a farm and used to killing his 4-H projects, would it be considered "normal" for a kid to just watch a family pet die?

Don't we generally get concerned about kids who can watch animals die?

It was the job of the parents to be "in charge" at the beach. It is a dangerous place and I live very close to the same type of beach. It is not a place where you can afford not to pay attention. Several things failed, but a kid being concerned about his pet wasn't the stupid part of the tragedy.
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:14   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
That may be your personal belief, but it isn't mine.

I'd risk my life to save my pets. I don't necessarily feel the same about other humans or even some of my own family members.
I've jumped through ice to save a dog and kicked a foaming racoon with sandals to save a horse. I also cracked a beer when the punk kid down the next road was life-flighted away after trying to steal stuff from a utility substation. Still have the dog, the horse made it to 28 and the kid steers his chair with his tongue and I sleep well at night. HH
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:24   #65
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I've jumped through ice to save a dog and kicked a foaming racoon with sandals to save a horse. I also cracked a beer when the punk kid down the next road was life-flighted away after trying to steal stuff from a utility substation. Still have the dog, the horse made it to 28 and the kid steers his chair with his tongue and I sleep well at night. HH
I really don't know how I could agree with you any more than I do now.
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:27   #66
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No animal is worth risking even the most worthless human life over IMO. I love my dog and cat, but the only way I'd try to save them is if there was no risk to my life. Animals do not have a soul. Even the most worthless human has a soul and possibly one day they will come to know Jesus and be saved. No animal can ever do that.
What about risking a human life over other physical property? How about risking other peoples life over physical property?

People do it every day: People put their own lives and the lives of others at risk for silly stupid reasons, many/most arguably far, far more frivolous than trying to save a pet.

Do you live a live trying to avoid ALL risk? What extremes do you take this approach?

(Keep in mind this question is coming from a professional risk manager.)
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:29   #67
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Just maybe they were confident that their lives wouldn't be at stake swimming after the dog, boy, dad. The thought might have been they were going to get wet, cold, and inconvenienced, but it would all come out right giving a helping hand to dog, boy, dad.
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:39   #68
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I'd let any number of rapists, murderers, child abusers, terrorists, and just plain old ass holes drown if it meant saving my dog, cats, horses... hell, even the fish and snakes. And TV. My stuff is more important to me than someone who doesn't care enough about their own life to bother living like a decent human being.
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:50   #69
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Originally Posted by Caver 60 View Post
I love my dog and cat, but the only way I'd try to save them is if there was no risk to my life.
And here we have it. This is closer to the truth than what a lot of people here have posted. Sure, most people care about their pets immensely...but now back to reality.

Put in that situation, 99% of everyone here aren't running into any house engulfed in flames to save their pets...they will stand on the lawn and watch their house burn down in disbelief like everyone else.

It doesn't mean they don't care, humans have a natural instinct to survive...and it supersedes pulling movie stunts to save animals.

Last edited by tantrix; 11-26-2012 at 22:52..
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Old 11-26-2012, 22:54   #70
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And here we have it. This is closer to the truth than what a lot of people here have posted. Sure, most people care about their pets immensely...but now back to reality.

Put in that situation, 99% of everyone here aren't running into any house engulfed in flames to save their pets...they will stand on the lawn and watch their house burn down in disbelief like everyone else.

It doesn't mean they don't care, humans have a natural instinct to survive...and it supersedes pulling movie stunts to save animals.
When I was 13 that exact thing happened and I went back in after the dog. Dad went in after me, but the story had a happier ending.
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Old 11-26-2012, 23:05   #71
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When I was 13 that exact thing happened and I went back in after the dog. Dad went in after me, but the story had a happier ending.
I'd hope my kids (especially teenagers) are smart enough to not run back into a house engulfed in flames.
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Old 11-26-2012, 23:15   #72
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Originally Posted by UtahIrishman View Post
One of the things that makes me get up and go to work every day is to see the complete loyalty and trust that our cats display in me that I will provide for them.

I don't know anyone else including my wife who have that kind of complete loyalty and trust in me.

I would go to hell and back for any of our pets.

Amen!


(I guess that makes me a loon too!)

That's fine by me!
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Old 11-26-2012, 23:16   #73
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I'd hope my kids (especially teenagers) are smart enough to not run back into a house engulfed in flames.
There are those will will risk and those who won't.

Dad was going back in but he was trying to calm my hysterical mother so I went.

I was raised knowing that risk was a part of life and worst thing a man could be called was a coward.

I have never had much use for a man who thinks his skin is the most valuable thing in the world.
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Old 11-26-2012, 23:17   #74
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Old 11-26-2012, 23:20   #75
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I'm not sure that the family members even realized the danger when the son went after the dog and the mom and son subsequently went in after the dad. 8-10 foot waves aren't necessarily all that fearsome looking and many folks don't realize how powerful the undercurrents can be that are associated with such waves.

They figure that since they are very close to shore to begin with, the worst that can happen is they get knocked down and thrown back towards the beach. A lot of folks don't understand that the wave action can create powerful currents that will quickly drag you AWAY from shore.

My guess is that the kid went into the water thinking "I'll just grab the pooch and drag him back. Worst that can happen is I get tossed around a bit". I doubt he thought he was making a life-threatening decision in the first place.

Everything that happened afterwards was a tragic series of events involving humans trying to save other beloved HUMAN members of the famiy, not the pet.
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