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Old 11-18-2012, 21:59   #1
vart
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Looks like Dodges still suck...

Sorry about the news Okie, but I'm glad you at least got a good one...

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...139357408.html


2012 Nameplate Ranking
Problems per 100 Vehicles
Lexus
86
Porsche
98
Cadillac
104
Toyota
104
Scion
111
Mercedes-Benz
112
Lincoln
116
Ford
124
Buick
125
Hyundai
125
Acura
129
Honda
131
Industry Average
132
Chevrolet
135
Volvo
143
Audi
148
smart
148
Subaru
149
Nissan
152
Mitsubishi
153
BMW
154
GMC
158
MINI
161
Mazda
163
Suzuki
167
Kia
169
Volkswagen
169
Infiniti
172
Jaguar
172
Ram
174
Jeep
179
Dodge
183
Chrysler
192


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Old 11-18-2012, 22:12   #2
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Ram is its own name now?

I am not sure how valuable that list is. Looks like the just generalize problem. My DS heated seat was not working, silly little problem but it would still count as 1?
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:12   #3
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I saw a new Ram 1500 on the highway the other day that was really, really nice looking... All blacked out with a mild lift and rims. Beautiful truck. I may be in the market in the Spring for a new half-ton truck and the Dodge really caught my eye. Too bad they are just so dang unreliable...

I'm considering the F-150, Titan, and Tundra... It will probably come down to either the F-150 or the Titan, since I've never seen Toyota deal on any of their vehicles.
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:15   #4
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If you saw what I recently saw at a Chrysler transmission assembly plant, you'd know why they suck so badly.
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:23   #5
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Quote:
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I saw a new Ram 1500 on the highway the other day that was really, really nice looking... All blacked out with a mild lift and rims. Beautiful truck. I may be in the market in the Spring for a new half-ton truck and the Dodge really caught my eye. Too bad they are just so dang unreliable...

I'm considering the F-150, Titan, and Tundra... It will probably come down to either the F-150 or the Titan, since I've never seen Toyota deal on any of their vehicles.
Okie isn't the only one with a Dodge Ram...2008 here and no problems yet.
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:23   #6
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They all suck.
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:27   #7
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Okie isn't the only one with a Dodge Ram...2008 here and no problems yet.

If you saw how those people run their facilities...
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:31   #8
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You've mentioned that before, Atlas.

Without going too far over our heads, what sort of problems did you see?
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:36   #9
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At a glance, the place just looks as if a buncha lunatics are in charge.
I saw nothing that impressed me, nada.
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:41   #10
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99 ford f150 lariat - 4wd went out twice, both at bad times. spark plug blew at 28k miles and ford wanted $600 to change it de to the design. Traded it right after.

00 chevy 1500 work truck - rear diff blew at ~12k miles, fixed, blew again at ~25k, fixed, driveline imploded at ~35k ish, just under warranty. Traded it.

02 Ram 1500 sport - tranny would slip out of gear when in reverse and get lost in a false neutral. tranny would refuse to come out of first gear at random times, even though i was in "D". After several attemps for repair, the dealer told me next time it happened, run the thing WOT until something blew up and then call a tow truck. Traded it in ~100 miles short of the 36k mile warranty.

04 chevy 1500 - zero issues, but traded it at 15k miles due to a poor decision on buying regular cab.

05 chevy 2500hd - zero issues until it got totaled under 10k miles.

car in between

07 ram 1500 sport - same as 02 ram, tranny would slip out of gear when in reverse and get lost in a false neutral. tranny would refuse to come out of first gear at random times, even though i was in "D". never blew up so i lived with it for 2 years and then traded it.

08 gmc 1500 - torque converter blew at 12k, another time and 35k miles. Last time it took rear diff with it. Traded it.

09 f150 - lowered, sexy, perfect truck with zero issues, worse towing mpg in the world, sadly had to sell it due to 2wd and bigger boat.

11 ram 1500 sport - love it. zero issues so far.

see, they all suck
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Old 11-18-2012, 23:06   #11
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Originally Posted by RenoF250 View Post
I am not sure how valuable that list is. Looks like the just generalize problem. My DS heated seat was not working, silly little problem but it would still count as 1?
Imagine if we elected our President using the same principle. Wait...
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Old 11-18-2012, 23:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMOKEin View Post
99 ford f150 lariat - 4wd went out twice, both at bad times. spark plug blew at 28k miles and ford wanted $600 to change it de to the design. Traded it right after.

00 chevy 1500 work truck - rear diff blew at ~12k miles, fixed, blew again at ~25k, fixed, driveline imploded at ~35k ish, just under warranty. Traded it.

02 Ram 1500 sport - tranny would slip out of gear when in reverse and get lost in a false neutral. tranny would refuse to come out of first gear at random times, even though i was in "D". After several attemps for repair, the dealer told me next time it happened, run the thing WOT until something blew up and then call a tow truck. Traded it in ~100 miles short of the 36k mile warranty.

04 chevy 1500 - zero issues, but traded it at 15k miles due to a poor decision on buying regular cab.

05 chevy 2500hd - zero issues until it got totaled under 10k miles.

car in between

07 ram 1500 sport - same as 02 ram, tranny would slip out of gear when in reverse and get lost in a false neutral. tranny would refuse to come out of first gear at random times, even though i was in "D". never blew up so i lived with it for 2 years and then traded it.

08 gmc 1500 - torque converter blew at 12k, another time and 35k miles. Last time it took rear diff with it. Traded it.

09 f150 - lowered, sexy, perfect truck with zero issues, worse towing mpg in the world, sadly had to sell it due to 2wd and bigger boat.

11 ram 1500 sport - love it. zero issues so far.

see, they all suck



1993 Nisan Hardbody 4X4 306,000 miles, replaced two clutches, rebuilt transmission and engine. sold for $3600

2003 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 188,000 miles, so far have replaced fluids and one battery
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Old 11-18-2012, 23:28   #13
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J.D. Powers is the most worthless resource for measuring true reliability, quality and durability that's ever had the misfortune to have its idiocy published.

J.D. Powers essentially asks owners if they've had a problem within 90 days of taking delivery of a new car (lease or purchase), as in self reporting, which could be something as minor as the owner not liking the size of the cupholders or having confusion over how to work the audio controls, and then treats/weighs all complaints as having the same weight.

It's total rubbish.

Consumer Reports, on the other hand, solicits specific responses from MILLIONS of owners of vehicles, ranging from a year of ownership experience, to 5 or even 8 years of ownership experience, and then CR then assigns a weight to the severity of the problem, since a self-grenading transmission is going to be more of an issue for an owner than road noise, and tracks those same vehicles for many years.

J.D. Powers is a useless, rubbish, asinine tragedy of a survey and company.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:08   #14
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My first car, in the early 1980s, was a Dodge truck D100 or D150. The slant 6 engine, very simple design, old school technology throughout and has been built the same way since the 1960s(???). You'd think by the time I bought one, Dodge would have perfected that line already.

Electronic problems less than 100 miles after leaving the dealer. Leaked like a sieve through the windows. Timing belt broke. Spring broke. Horrible dealer service. At about 15,000 miles I sold it and swore to never get another Chrysler/Dodge product. Nowadays, I would not take one even as a gift.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:10   #15
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Since I started driving, I've owned:

MOPAR (x3)
GM (x3)
Ford (x7) (Including my kids' Fords)
Toyota (x4)
Scion (x1)
Honda (x1)

I've had problems with all of them, except for the Toyota and Scion vehicles. (I'm not talking about routine maintenance, or 'normal wear and tear items'.)

• Mopar - 1973 Dodge - electric issues. BIG time.
'98 Grand Caravan Sport - a/c issues, and they were caused by technicians (mechanics!) at the dealership!! This was NOT a manufacturing issue.
My 2002 Dodge Dakota gave me ONE problem, and it was fixed before it gave any trouble - balljoints.
The ONE major issue with that truck. . . it would not pass a gas station without wanting a drink!
2001 Chrysler T&C - Not ONE problem.

• GM - electronic ignition issues and paint peeling off! (GM refused to fix the paint issue on a new truck! GM can go shout at the devil, as far as I'm concerned.)
Old Pontiac - timing chain/gears.

• Ford - Multiple problems, from leaking sunroof, to rust in gas tanks (causing filters to clog), to defective brakes.

• Honda - defective transmission
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:13   #16
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
At a glance, the place just looks as if a buncha lunatics are in charge.
I saw nothing that impressed me, nada.
Once again, elaborate?
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:32   #17
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I saw a new Ram 1500 on the highway the other day that was really, really nice looking... All blacked out with a mild lift and rims. Beautiful truck. I may be in the market in the Spring for a new half-ton truck and the Dodge really caught my eye. Too bad they are just so dang unreliable...

I'm considering the F-150, Titan, and Tundra... It will probably come down to either the F-150 or the Titan, since I've never seen Toyota deal on any of their vehicles.
The reason Toyota doesn't do deals on the Tacoma is because they don't have to.

Those trucks do well enough in reliability and resale they don't need to offer sales.

I had a frame rot and Toyota took car of me, I made 4k dollars profit on that truck.

My buddy bought a truck, drove it for 4 years. When his brother in law crashed it and the insurance paid him for it he lost 200$ for driving a truck for 4 years.

I would have one now but I can't afford one at the moment. It almost doesn't make sense to buy them used. I bought a 2004 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport with 91k miles on it for 5,300$.

A Toyota Tacoma with similar miles and year would be about 14,000$. Meanwhile both cars sold for about the same price when new.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:12   #18
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I'm a little surprised Honda is as low as they are.

MB seems to be getting their act together along with Porsche (of course Porsche has been making basically the same car for so long I'd be surprised if they hadn't gotten it right by now).

It also matters what the problems are. If a window switch goes out in the first year that is one thing (my uncle kept about 2-3 on hand for his '89 Chevrolet truck). If the car blows an engine or transmission in the first year that is a little bit more concerning. My experience with Honda is that the engines, transmissions, and the other "stuff that makes it go" is pretty solid (though they have had transmission issues in the past). Where they fall down is in the stuff like dome lights. My 2010 Civic has had issues with the dome light, as has my wife's 2006 Accord.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:15   #19
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Originally Posted by byf43 View Post
Since I started driving, I've owned:

MOPAR (x3)
GM (x3)
Ford (x7) (Including my kids' Fords)
Toyota (x4)
Scion (x1)
Honda (x1)

I've had problems with all of them, except for the Toyota and Scion vehicles. (I'm not talking about routine maintenance, or 'normal wear and tear items'.)

Mopar - 1973 Dodge - electric issues. BIG time.
'98 Grand Caravan Sport - a/c issues, and they were caused by technicians (mechanics!) at the dealership!! This was NOT a manufacturing issue.
My 2002 Dodge Dakota gave me ONE problem, and it was fixed before it gave any trouble - balljoints.
The ONE major issue with that truck. . . it would not pass a gas station without wanting a drink!
2001 Chrysler T&C - Not ONE problem.

GM - electronic ignition issues and paint peeling off! (GM refused to fix the paint issue on a new truck! GM can go shout at the devil, as far as I'm concerned.)
Old Pontiac - timing chain/gears.

Ford - Multiple problems, from leaking sunroof, to rust in gas tanks (causing filters to clog), to defective brakes.

Honda - defective transmission
When were the GMs made? My family had two that needed repainting within a few years of purchase back in the early 90s. GM paid for the paint job (hood on one, full paint job on the other), even letting us take one of them to an independent body shop for the full paint job.

That said - GM paint jobs back then were cr#p. My 2000 Silverado hasn't had any issues other than scratches though.

Your Ford lines up with my theory - Ford always seems to have wierd stuff go wrong.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:41   #20
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1993 Nisan Hardbody 4X4 306,000 miles, replaced two clutches, rebuilt transmission and engine. sold for $3600


Not unusual, those trucks go forever, so do the same generation PF's. I have both.




....didn't know slant sixes used a timing belt....
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:49   #21
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When were the GMs made? My family had two that needed repainting within a few years of purchase back in the early 90s. GM paid for the paint job (hood on one, full paint job on the other), even letting us take one of them to an independent body shop for the full paint job.

That said - GM paint jobs back then were cr#p. My 2000 Silverado hasn't had any issues other than scratches though.

Your Ford lines up with my theory - Ford always seems to have wierd stuff go wrong.
My family has owned GM products since 1947.

Dad's issues were with an '82 Olds Cutlass. Bad oil leaks.

With that said, the vehicle that I specifically had problems with (paint and ignition), was a 1989 Chevy Blazer V1500 (aka/ K5).
Took SIX return trips to the dealer, to find out that the magnet in the mainshaft of the distributor had lost it's magnatism. (Factory Rep said this was common issue in '89 GMs.)
The mechanics had replaced the ECM twice, the EPROM twice, ignition modules twice. The mechanic had actually said that I was dreaming this problem up, except for the "41" code that kept showing up on the computer.

I took the vehicle to GM (Chevy) dealer, and he said that they'd take care of the paint. (Paint was peeling terribly bad on hood, roof, left front fender, driver's door. Rust coming through primer.)
I asked to wait until the following Spring (due to road salt, etc.) and they said, "No problem. Bring the vehicle back when you're ready. We'll have the information on the computer."

I took it back, the following March.
No record of any conversation. Same Service Manager. Same everything.
Wrote letters to GM. Sent photos with letters.

GM waited until the warranty ran out on the vehicle, then responded, and said that they would NOT honor their warranty, nor would they 'fix' the defective paint.

Sent additional letters. . . . 'up the chain'.
Same result.

I had the truck fixed.
The whole issue was the type of primer used on the galvanized steel.

A local guy stripped the truck to bare metal.
Sprayed with epoxy primer, scuffed it, then sprayed with 'normal' primer.
Painted with 6 coats of PPG paint. Painted with 6 coats of clearcoat. (Sanding between each coat of paint and clearcoat).

That truck was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!

I've not owned a GM, since.
The only GM in my family, is my dear old Mom's '96 Buick Roadmaster Brougham, and it's only got 18,000 (and change) miles on it. Garage kept.
Everything on that car is original, except the battery.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:01   #22
Atlas
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Quote:
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You've mentioned that before, Atlas.

Without going too far over our heads, what sort of problems did you see?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucknasty View Post
Once again, elaborate?
Sorry guys. it was very late.
I've already posted about this in other recent threads.


I was asked to work with an automation engineering company to help with equipment they designed and constructed for a Chrysler facility.

They were having problems because they did some very silly things in their design and implementation and they had no interest in doing anything different so I gave up on them.


I've worked on production automation systems for other auto manufacturers over the years and for many of their component suppliers of such items as body panels, electronic assemblies, seats, steering systems (the new electric rack-and-pinion systems), etc.

I've programmed and commissioned production lines for Mercedes in Alabama and at the BMW facility in South Carolina.

When you've worked in manufacturing automation (not only for automotive but many other industries as well) as long as I have you learn to recognize who is serious about quality and who isn't.

The Chrysler facility was just sloppy and disorganized.
Everything about the place, from the smallest detail to some really large-scale automated production lines just looked like a joke.

I walked around and toured most of the plant and nothing looked to me like the work of a company that has it's act together. The contrast between them and any other manufacturer in the automotive business I've eperienced was huge...

I've worked for companies manufacturing appliance parts that were better organized and managed.


I really don't care to say any more than this here, but I could tell you plenty in a 2-hour face-to-face discussion. And this was after only a few days there..
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:01   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byf43 View Post
My family has owned GM products since 1947.

Dad's issues were with an '82 Olds Cutlass. Bad oil leaks.

With that said, the vehicle that I specifically had problems with (paint and ignition), was a 1989 Chevy Blazer V1500 (aka/ K5).
Took SIX return trips to the dealer, to find out that the magnet in the mainshaft of the distributor had lost it's magnatism. (Factory Rep said this was common issue in '89 GMs.)
The mechanics had replaced the ECM twice, the EPROM twice, ignition modules twice. The mechanic had actually said that I was dreaming this problem up, except for the "41" code that kept showing up on the computer.

I took the vehicle to GM (Chevy) dealer, and he said that they'd take care of the paint. (Paint was peeling terribly bad on hood, roof, left front fender, driver's door. Rust coming through primer.)
I asked to wait until the following Spring (due to road salt, etc.) and they said, "No problem. Bring the vehicle back when you're ready. We'll have the information on the computer."

I took it back, the following March.
No record of any conversation. Same Service Manager. Same everything.
Wrote letters to GM. Sent photos with letters.

GM waited until the warranty ran out on the vehicle, then responded, and said that they would NOT honor their warranty, nor would they 'fix' the defective paint.

Sent additional letters. . . . 'up the chain'.
Same result.

I had the truck fixed.
The whole issue was the type of primer used on the galvanized steel.

A local guy stripped the truck to bare metal.
Sprayed with epoxy primer, scuffed it, then sprayed with 'normal' primer.
Painted with 6 coats of PPG paint. Painted with 6 coats of clearcoat. (Sanding between each coat of paint and clearcoat).

That truck was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!

I've not owned a GM, since.
The only GM in my family, is my dear old Mom's '96 Buick Roadmaster Brougham, and it's only got 18,000 (and change) miles on it. Garage kept.
Everything on that car is original, except the battery.
Yep - same year range. GM paint jobs in that era sucked out loud. I will say though that it sounds like your dealer sucked as well.

I'm no GM fan by any means but they seem to have improved their paint quality. My wife had a 2002 Malibu that had no paint issues and neither did my 2000 Silverado.

However, the engine in that Malibu was hot garbage, and my truck cracked a head at below 200K miles.
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Last edited by SC Tiger; 11-19-2012 at 08:01..
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:06   #24
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BTW OP - get your Nomex out. The Euro-car fans on here are NOT going to like this.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:11   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vart View Post
I saw a new Ram 1500 on the highway the other day that was really, really nice looking... All blacked out with a mild lift and rims. Beautiful truck. I may be in the market in the Spring for a new half-ton truck and the Dodge really caught my eye. Too bad they are just so dang unreliable...

I'm considering the F-150, Titan, and Tundra... It will probably come down to either the F-150 or the Titan, since I've never seen Toyota deal on any of their vehicles.

Not a hard choice there.


1) Tundra
2) Titan
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9) F-150

Last edited by tantrix; 11-19-2012 at 08:11..
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