GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-25-2012, 18:18   #26
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawScholar View Post
Yeah, I agree. Creampuff recoil, too. I'm mostly a .40/.45 guy but I can definitely see the rapid shots-on-target appeal of the G17. Quality is apparent too.

I'm happy she chose it. It's a gun designed for punishing police and military use. It should be able to handle a box of 50 every month or two and a cozy, well-maintained GunVault life.
You'd do well to get some Federal or Winchester 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ loads for her G17. The bullet velocity will exceed 1400 FPS in her G17. Try doing an internet search for it.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 10:01   #27
LawScholar
Senior Member
 
LawScholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
You'd do well to get some Federal or Winchester 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ loads for her G17. The bullet velocity will exceed 1400 FPS in her G17. Try doing an internet search for it.
I'm familiar with those, with the 9BPLE particularly. I've always been of the opinion that if you're going to do +p+ you should just get a .40 because you're losing the main advantage of 9, which is the easiest follow-up shots. In my experience a 180-grain .40 shoots softer than any +p+ 9mm, and given that I'd rather put the .40 on-target. My friend is recoil-averse and the HST 147s are both impressive in testing and very gentle.
__________________
Beretta PX4 .40 - Colt 1968 Detective Special .38 Spc.- Ruger LCP .380 - Daniel Defense M4V1 Carbine 5.56 - Ruger 10/22 .22LR - Remington Express Tactical 870 12GA

Last edited by LawScholar; 11-26-2012 at 10:02..
LawScholar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 10:19   #28
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
The WW or Fed 9mm115gr JHP +p+ loads don't have much recoil at all.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 10:40   #29
LawScholar
Senior Member
 
LawScholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
The WW or Fed 9mm115gr JHP +p+ loads don't have much recoil at all.
Fair 'nuff, the only +p+ I've shot is the 127-grain Winchester

I don't mean to disparage the +p+ 115 as a manstopper, it definitely has been proven that for a while
__________________
Beretta PX4 .40 - Colt 1968 Detective Special .38 Spc.- Ruger LCP .380 - Daniel Defense M4V1 Carbine 5.56 - Ruger 10/22 .22LR - Remington Express Tactical 870 12GA
LawScholar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 11:16   #30
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawScholar View Post
Fair 'nuff, the only +p+ I've shot is the 127-grain Winchester

I don't mean to disparage the +p+ 115 as a manstopper, it definitely has been proven that for a while
And the recoil of the 115gr +p+ load isn't too bad.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 11:42   #31
LawScholar
Senior Member
 
LawScholar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
And the recoil of the 115gr +p+ load isn't too bad.
I don't really think any service-caliber handgun recoils that much, just that it's similar enough to 180-grain .40 recoil that I'd rather go with the .40
__________________
Beretta PX4 .40 - Colt 1968 Detective Special .38 Spc.- Ruger LCP .380 - Daniel Defense M4V1 Carbine 5.56 - Ruger 10/22 .22LR - Remington Express Tactical 870 12GA
LawScholar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 17:07   #32
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawScholar View Post
I don't really think any service-caliber handgun recoils that much, just that it's similar enough to 180-grain .40 recoil that I'd rather go with the .40
Go for it!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 18:01   #33
ABNAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 641
The 147gr +P HST is the way to go if you want good expansion, penetration, AND smooth shooting.

I fired it into a couple Boston butt roasts through denim a few months ago from a Glock 19 (the G17 should give even better performance) and got .60" expansion. Pretty good for a 9mm and a soft shooter too.
__________________
"...there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me I got to beware..."

11C2P '83-'87

Last edited by ABNAK; 11-26-2012 at 18:03..
ABNAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 18:54   #34
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
The 147gr +P HST is the way to go if you want good expansion, penetration, AND smooth shooting.

I fired it into a couple Boston butt roasts through denim a few months ago from a Glock 19 (the G17 should give even better performance) and got .60" expansion. Pretty good for a 9mm and a soft shooter too.
What were your penetrate action results? Did you find reduced penetration due to the added expansion of the +p ?
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:25   #35
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenndapp View Post
What were your penetrate action results? Did you find reduced penetration due to the added expansion of the +p ?
I have heard of this phenomenon, and I sometimes wonder if my CCW load has enough penetration (9mm 115gr JHP +p+ - 1400 FPS MV).
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:26   #36
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
Well extra expansion does provide extra resistance on the bullet. That's why the 147 hst standard gets more penetration than it's +p counterpart. I don't think I would use a 115 gr for any thing more than paper punching. I don't care how fast it's going. I am not willing to trade inches of penetration for fractions of expansion. But that being said I keep both standard and +p hst's around. Most test I have seen give the edge to the standard pressure due to 12" of penetration minimum where plus p falls just a tad short. But like tnoutdoors stated earlier in this thread....... Thees are just test. There are no barriers or bone, nor different consistancies in the test media like fat, muscle, organs ext, ext. so will that extra 50 fps of the +p 147gr hst do some thing extra when It's actually fired into a living creature? I have no idea.
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:36   #37
ABNAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenndapp View Post
What were your penetrate action results? Did you find reduced penetration due to the added expansion of the +p ?

I had ~ 13" of meat to penetrate through. Placed a gallon ziplock bag behind it to catch anything that went through and make it easier to find the bullet (as opposed to digging it out of a bag of Sakrete I used as a final backstop). The 147gr +P HST was found in the bag of water, so it penetrated 4 layers of denim and 13+ inches of pork loin while expanding to .60".

I did not test the standard pressure round.

I would go with the +P version as the extra velocity can't hurt IMHO. It averaged 1021fps from a Glock 19.
__________________
"...there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me I got to beware..."

11C2P '83-'87

Last edited by ABNAK; 11-27-2012 at 11:38..
ABNAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 11:51   #38
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
I had ~ 13" of meat to penetrate through. Placed a gallon ziplock bag behind it to catch anything that went through and make it easier to find the bullet (as opposed to digging it out of a bag of Sakrete I used as a final backstop). The 147gr +P HST was found in the bag of water, so it penetrated 4 layers of denim and 13+ inches of pork loin while expanding to .60".

I did not test the standard pressure round.

I would go with the +P version as the extra velocity can't hurt IMHO. It averaged 1021fps from a Glock 19.
Damn good results.
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 15:06   #39
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
I had ~ 13" of meat to penetrate through. Placed a gallon ziplock bag behind it to catch anything that went through and make it easier to find the bullet (as opposed to digging it out of a bag of Sakrete I used as a final backstop). The 147gr +P HST was found in the bag of water, so it penetrated 4 layers of denim and 13+ inches of pork loin while expanding to .60".

I did not test the standard pressure round.

I would go with the +P version as the extra velocity can't hurt IMHO. It averaged 1021fps from a Glock 19.
So I can expect about 1100 FPS out of my G17 with this load.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 15:15   #40
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
So I can expect about 1100 FPS out of my G17 with this load.
i really don't think you get much over 1050. federal seems to do +p right. they really don't push things crazy fast. main reason i went from ranger 230gr plus p (990 fps!) to hst 230gr plus p (a reasonable 950 fps). the ranger just broke my grip on the g21 with every pull of the trigger, the federal did not.
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 20:32   #41
ABNAK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenndapp View Post
i really don't think you get much over 1050. federal seems to do +p right. they really don't push things crazy fast. main reason i went from ranger 230gr plus p (990 fps!) to hst 230gr plus p (a reasonable 950 fps). the ranger just broke my grip on the g21 with every pull of the trigger, the federal did not.
Not to mention that heavy-for-caliber loads *usually* don't gain/lose as much as lighter and faster loads when it comes to barrel length.
__________________
"...there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me I got to beware..."

11C2P '83-'87
ABNAK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 14:16   #42
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenndapp View Post
i really don't think you get much over 1050. federal seems to do +p right. they really don't push things crazy fast. main reason i went from ranger 230gr plus p (990 fps!) to hst 230gr plus p (a reasonable 950 fps). the ranger just broke my grip on the g21 with every pull of the trigger, the federal did not.
YOU are a seasoned shooter!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 18:28   #43
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
ha. thanks. just a result of puling triggers and hanging around forums i guess.
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 10:27   #44
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenndapp View Post
ha. thanks. just a result of puling triggers and hanging around forums i guess.
You don't just "hang around," you contribute to a rather dry subject.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions

Last edited by SCmasterblaster; 12-01-2012 at 10:27..
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 11:39   #45
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
You don't just "hang around," you contribute to a rather dry subject.
thanks for the kind words. did my internet street cred just jump a few points?

either way i fell comfortable with plus p OR standard 147gr hst. i think the 1-2" penetration differential we see between the two in gel would be much smaller in real world results. who knows? once you put bone, barriers, tough skin, dense organs, air filled organs into the mix...... the plus p might show a slight edge. i sort of wish federal would just offer one and only one pressure of 147gr....would make my ammo decisions easier.
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 13:45   #46
Jeff82
CLM Number 237
NRA Benefactor
 
Jeff82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: USofA!
Posts: 6,056


The OP's +P gel shot mimicked almost exactly the standard pressure 147 HST. I get 1035 out of my G17 with P9HST2 (10 round avg).

The same load gets 1013 out of a G19 and 1041 out of a G34.

BTW, Fed 9BPLE runs 1381 from my G17.
__________________
MOΛΩN ΛABE!

"A Republic, if you can keep it." B. Franklin, 1787, outside Independence Hall

There's not "good" or "bad" muslims, only those true to their book and those that aren't, yet...
Jeff82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 12:36   #47
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenndapp View Post
thanks for the kind words. did my internet street cred just jump a few points?

either way i fell comfortable with plus p OR standard 147gr hst. i think the 1-2" penetration differential we see between the two in gel would be much smaller in real world results. who knows? once you put bone, barriers, tough skin, dense organs, air filled organs into the mix...... the plus p might show a slight edge. i sort of wish federal would just offer one and only one pressure of 147gr....would make my ammo decisions easier.
I am going to try some factory-loaded 147gr loads in my G17.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 15:46   #48
kenndapp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I am going to try some factory-loaded 147gr loads in my G17.
Between accuracy and shoot -ability I think your going to like it. Terminal performance seems to grow a bit when going "heavy for caliber"..... no matter what the caliber is.
kenndapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 18:38   #49
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 15,836
From the photos shown of the 147gr JHPs, they are built for expansion for sure.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 20:50   #50
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,432
I'm still not tempted to shoot 147-grain ammo in my 9mm pistols but if I am it seems to me the standard pressure rounds yield approximately the same results as the +P rounds do. So if the price of both (per Internet ammo sources) are the same then it makes no difference which heavy-for-caliber round one chooses.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:41.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,021
339 Members
682 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42