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Old 11-21-2012, 13:33   #21
SCmasterblaster
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Originally Posted by jlavallee View Post
The stuff in the grey box that everyone used have for sale. Apparently that is Hi Shok and not Hydra Shock...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-4061
Hi Shok is apparently quite different than Hydra-Shock. I don't offhand know what it is . . . . .
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Old 11-21-2012, 14:35   #22
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hey tnoutdoors9! love the tests, great job! especially looking forward to the up coming rifle ammunition tests, particularly 5.56/223 and 7.62/.308 hunting/tac loads.

do you feel your test between 147gr hst +p and standard pressure 147gr hst were accurate?

and by that i mean..... if we were to take 147gr hst +p and standard pressure 147gr hst back to back in 100 different test in 100 different ways that the standard pressure would always penetrate more than the +p due to the wider expansion of the +p creating the parachute effect and slowing it down more rapidly?
I can't guarantee it, but the +P version may penetrate less in most gel tests due to the higher energy and faster expansion. In the real world, which is what we train for, it may not make any difference; especially when you consider bone, trajectory, body mass, etc.
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Old 11-21-2012, 16:56   #23
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My friend recently got a G4 G17 for her first gun after she and I tested a bunch. I got her the 147-grain HST and we put the 17+1 pistol in a GunVault and I feel much better about her home and office security now. The expansion on that round is insane. It looks like a starfish of death when expanded.
Great choice for a first gun - the G17. My first and only Glock was and is a Glock Model 17.
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Old 11-21-2012, 21:54   #24
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Hi Shok is apparently quite different than Hydra-Shock. I don't offhand know what it is . . . . .
I had to go take a look after the comment and Hydra have the post in the center of the hollow point where, Hi Shok do not. I thought they just had posts in some and not in others of the old one.

The only ammo with the post I've had is the 147 gr +P+ federal Hydra .38 SPL and I know that because I still have some.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:58   #25
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Great choice for a first gun - the G17. My first and only Glock was and is a Glock Model 17.
Yeah, I agree. Creampuff recoil, too. I'm mostly a .40/.45 guy but I can definitely see the rapid shots-on-target appeal of the G17. Quality is apparent too.

I'm happy she chose it. It's a gun designed for punishing police and military use. It should be able to handle a box of 50 every month or two and a cozy, well-maintained GunVault life.
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Old 11-25-2012, 19:18   #26
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Yeah, I agree. Creampuff recoil, too. I'm mostly a .40/.45 guy but I can definitely see the rapid shots-on-target appeal of the G17. Quality is apparent too.

I'm happy she chose it. It's a gun designed for punishing police and military use. It should be able to handle a box of 50 every month or two and a cozy, well-maintained GunVault life.
You'd do well to get some Federal or Winchester 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ loads for her G17. The bullet velocity will exceed 1400 FPS in her G17. Try doing an internet search for it.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:01   #27
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You'd do well to get some Federal or Winchester 9mm 115gr JHP +p+ loads for her G17. The bullet velocity will exceed 1400 FPS in her G17. Try doing an internet search for it.
I'm familiar with those, with the 9BPLE particularly. I've always been of the opinion that if you're going to do +p+ you should just get a .40 because you're losing the main advantage of 9, which is the easiest follow-up shots. In my experience a 180-grain .40 shoots softer than any +p+ 9mm, and given that I'd rather put the .40 on-target. My friend is recoil-averse and the HST 147s are both impressive in testing and very gentle.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:19   #28
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The WW or Fed 9mm115gr JHP +p+ loads don't have much recoil at all.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:40   #29
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The WW or Fed 9mm115gr JHP +p+ loads don't have much recoil at all.
Fair 'nuff, the only +p+ I've shot is the 127-grain Winchester

I don't mean to disparage the +p+ 115 as a manstopper, it definitely has been proven that for a while
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:16   #30
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Fair 'nuff, the only +p+ I've shot is the 127-grain Winchester

I don't mean to disparage the +p+ 115 as a manstopper, it definitely has been proven that for a while
And the recoil of the 115gr +p+ load isn't too bad.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:42   #31
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And the recoil of the 115gr +p+ load isn't too bad.
I don't really think any service-caliber handgun recoils that much, just that it's similar enough to 180-grain .40 recoil that I'd rather go with the .40
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Old 11-26-2012, 18:07   #32
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I don't really think any service-caliber handgun recoils that much, just that it's similar enough to 180-grain .40 recoil that I'd rather go with the .40
Go for it!
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Old 11-26-2012, 19:01   #33
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The 147gr +P HST is the way to go if you want good expansion, penetration, AND smooth shooting.

I fired it into a couple Boston butt roasts through denim a few months ago from a Glock 19 (the G17 should give even better performance) and got .60" expansion. Pretty good for a 9mm and a soft shooter too.
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Old 11-26-2012, 19:54   #34
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The 147gr +P HST is the way to go if you want good expansion, penetration, AND smooth shooting.

I fired it into a couple Boston butt roasts through denim a few months ago from a Glock 19 (the G17 should give even better performance) and got .60" expansion. Pretty good for a 9mm and a soft shooter too.
What were your penetrate action results? Did you find reduced penetration due to the added expansion of the +p ?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:25   #35
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What were your penetrate action results? Did you find reduced penetration due to the added expansion of the +p ?
I have heard of this phenomenon, and I sometimes wonder if my CCW load has enough penetration (9mm 115gr JHP +p+ - 1400 FPS MV).
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:26   #36
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Well extra expansion does provide extra resistance on the bullet. That's why the 147 hst standard gets more penetration than it's +p counterpart. I don't think I would use a 115 gr for any thing more than paper punching. I don't care how fast it's going. I am not willing to trade inches of penetration for fractions of expansion. But that being said I keep both standard and +p hst's around. Most test I have seen give the edge to the standard pressure due to 12" of penetration minimum where plus p falls just a tad short. But like tnoutdoors stated earlier in this thread....... Thees are just test. There are no barriers or bone, nor different consistancies in the test media like fat, muscle, organs ext, ext. so will that extra 50 fps of the +p 147gr hst do some thing extra when It's actually fired into a living creature? I have no idea.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:36   #37
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What were your penetrate action results? Did you find reduced penetration due to the added expansion of the +p ?

I had ~ 13" of meat to penetrate through. Placed a gallon ziplock bag behind it to catch anything that went through and make it easier to find the bullet (as opposed to digging it out of a bag of Sakrete I used as a final backstop). The 147gr +P HST was found in the bag of water, so it penetrated 4 layers of denim and 13+ inches of pork loin while expanding to .60".

I did not test the standard pressure round.

I would go with the +P version as the extra velocity can't hurt IMHO. It averaged 1021fps from a Glock 19.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:51   #38
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I had ~ 13" of meat to penetrate through. Placed a gallon ziplock bag behind it to catch anything that went through and make it easier to find the bullet (as opposed to digging it out of a bag of Sakrete I used as a final backstop). The 147gr +P HST was found in the bag of water, so it penetrated 4 layers of denim and 13+ inches of pork loin while expanding to .60".

I did not test the standard pressure round.

I would go with the +P version as the extra velocity can't hurt IMHO. It averaged 1021fps from a Glock 19.
Damn good results.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:06   #39
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I had ~ 13" of meat to penetrate through. Placed a gallon ziplock bag behind it to catch anything that went through and make it easier to find the bullet (as opposed to digging it out of a bag of Sakrete I used as a final backstop). The 147gr +P HST was found in the bag of water, so it penetrated 4 layers of denim and 13+ inches of pork loin while expanding to .60".

I did not test the standard pressure round.

I would go with the +P version as the extra velocity can't hurt IMHO. It averaged 1021fps from a Glock 19.
So I can expect about 1100 FPS out of my G17 with this load.
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Old 11-28-2012, 16:15   #40
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So I can expect about 1100 FPS out of my G17 with this load.
i really don't think you get much over 1050. federal seems to do +p right. they really don't push things crazy fast. main reason i went from ranger 230gr plus p (990 fps!) to hst 230gr plus p (a reasonable 950 fps). the ranger just broke my grip on the g21 with every pull of the trigger, the federal did not.
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