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Old 11-12-2012, 15:53   #1
ADK_40GLKr
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17 vs 38 Side by side!

Granted, I'm new to the 38, but took both the 17 and 38 to the range today and shot 'em side by side.

Not a lot of noticeable difference TO ME, but then I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil. The 38 might have had a slightly stronger "buck" when I pulled the trigger.

Was shooting WWB in the 17, and it felt pretty mild.

The 38 held mostly my weak reloads, one so weak it failed to extract even. And it seemed pretty mild as well.

I paced off about 12 yards and set up these two side by side 8" circles. The difference in accuracy could have something to do with shooting 3 different batches of .45 GAP ammo, or it might have been due to my newness with the pistol and anticipating stronger recoil.

Anyway, I am also anticipating becoming more accurate with my new 45GAP and in building more consistent loads.

More to follow....
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Old 11-12-2012, 15:57   #2
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Sounds like you had a good time.
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Old 11-12-2012, 16:02   #3
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Sounds like you had a good time.
I DID-I DID!

It's just that I spend an hour loading 'em up, and in 5 minutes they're all gone!!!!
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Old 11-12-2012, 17:19   #4
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Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
[B]...It's just that I spend an hour loading 'em up, and in 5 minutes they're all gone!!!!
To paraphrase Tommy Lee, 'Get yourself a Dillon and lose that red-painted sissy loader.'
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Old 11-12-2012, 19:41   #5
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Good shooting and good combination. I love the GAP pistols! I think you will find that the accuracy will improve when you get used to it and get a good load. My 37 is the most accurate Glock I have shot.
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:10   #6
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Good shooting and good combination. I love the GAP pistols! I think you will find that the accuracy will improve when you get used to it and get a good load. My 37 is the most accurate Glock I have shot.

G17, ,G19, G22 Gen 4, G26, G37 and lots of other Non Glocks
Thanks, Jeremy!
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:21   #7
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Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
To paraphrase Tommy Lee, 'Get yourself a Dillon and lose that red-painted sissy loader.'


HI, SARDGE!

Yeah, but I can't afford a new G38 barrel every week!

As my State Guard Sergeant used to say: "Don't call me SIR, I WORK for a living!"
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:40   #8
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Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
I DID-I DID!

It's just that I spend an hour loading 'em up, and in 5 minutes they're all gone!!!!
While I'm sure the GAP is a good defensive type pistol.... for cost purposes you should be shooting the G17 more. 9mm is WAY cheaper to reload than .45 anything. Bullets are cheaper, less powder, etc.

And if you weren't using a single stage machine.... it wouldn't take you so long to load rounds. I can load 100 rounds in 6-7 minutes on my 650. It was ~10 on my 550. (Note, those times are simply "at the press" times, with primers already picked up and ready to go.)
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Old 11-13-2012, 20:18   #9
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I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive.
I seat and inspect each primer one at a time.
I charge and inspect each case with powder, one at a time.
I seat each bullet, one at a time.
I obsessively check each rounds O.A.L (+-.002 is acceptable)
Finally, I Taper crip.
Takes me about 1 hour per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity

Oh yea, I like the Glock 38
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Old 11-13-2012, 20:59   #10
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Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive...

Takes me about 1 hour per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity
I trust my pistol match ammo too - which is all I load for. But I load a heck of a lot more of it in an hour on my 650.

ETA: At 2,000 rounds fired in some months, 50/hr wouldn't do it for me.

Last edited by SARDG; 11-13-2012 at 21:00..
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Old 11-13-2012, 21:01   #11
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Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
Granted, I'm new to the 38, but took both the 17 and 38 to the range today and shot 'em side by side.

Not a lot of noticeable difference TO ME, but then I'm not particularly sensitive to recoil. The 38 might have had a slightly stronger "buck" when I pulled the trigger.

Was shooting WWB in the 17, and it felt pretty mild.

The 38 held mostly my weak reloads, one so weak it failed to extract even. And it seemed pretty mild as well.

I paced off about 12 yards and set up these two side by side 8" circles. The difference in accuracy could have something to do with shooting 3 different batches of .45 GAP ammo, or it might have been due to my newness with the pistol and anticipating stronger recoil.

Anyway, I am also anticipating becoming more accurate with my new 45GAP and in building more consistent loads.

More to follow....

Very cool
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:16   #12
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Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
I use a single stage press, even though I have a progressive.
I seat and inspect each primer one at a time.
I charge and inspect each case with powder, one at a time.
I seat each bullet, one at a time.
I obsessively check each rounds O.A.L (+-.002 is acceptable)
Finally, I Taper crip.
Takes me about 1 hour per 50 rounds.

I TRUST my ammo.

quality > quantity


Oh yea, I like the Glock 38
I've loaded over 40,000 rounds in the last 3 years without the first problem. I practice weekly and shoot multiple matches a month. No ammo problems.

There's careful... and there's debilitatingly OCD. Which are you?

You say you have a progressive press. Just guessing, but I'm thinking something like a crappy Lee Classic? Or at least a press that kept giving you problems and has caused you not to trust it?

I and and all my buddies have Dillon's, 550's or 650's. One has a Hornady LNL. WE produce ammo to shoot, spending 10 minutes per 100, not an hour for a measly 50 rounds.

You can be all smug about quality vs. quantity, we real shooters know the difference. You WON'T find a serious competition shooter who shoots 1500 rounds (or more) a month running a single stage. Period. 1500 rounds at an hour per 50? That's 30 hours a month reloading. Ha. As if.

Get a quality progressive, learn how to use it.... and make ammo.
Leave the smart ass comments for the guys who really are smart. That's not you.
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Old 11-14-2012, 20:00   #13
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Your more likely to screw up on a single stage. Your ammo is no better then mine made on a 650. You need some medication.
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Old 11-14-2012, 22:09   #14
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Your more likely to screw up on a single stage. Your ammo is no better then mine made on a 650. You need some medication.
Agreed, you can load just as reliable and accurate ammo out of a progressive press with less chance of screwing up. Loading pistol ammo isn't very much of a challenge to load for accuracy wise in a Glock. You would never know the difference between SS or Progressive made loads.
Just as a note to prove a point... With rifle, we all know consistency is a key to accurate ammo proven by good groups.
Here's a group of 5 shots of Horandy 50g Vmax .223 loaded on my XL650 progressive.
General Glocking
I loaded a lot of it as you can see (in a very short time) along with some 55g SPs for a Prairie dog hunting trip in Montana last summer. It all went bang, including a 440 yard kill shot at a coyote on Grandpas property.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:13   #15
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Unintentionally stepped on toes

Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
I trust my pistol match ammo too - which is all I load for. But I load a heck of a lot more of it in an hour on my 650.

ETA: At 2,000 rounds fired in some months, 50/hr wouldn't do it for me.
I might shoot 100 ? Not as much as I use to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ron59 View Post
I've loaded over 40,000 rounds in the last 3 years without the first problem. I practice weekly and shoot multiple matches a month. No ammo problems.

There's careful... and there's debilitatingly OCD. Which are you?

You say you have a progressive press. Just guessing, but I'm thinking something like a crappy Lee Classic? Or at least a press that kept giving you problems and has caused you not to trust it?

I and and all my buddies have Dillon's, 550's or 650's. One has a Hornady LNL. WE produce ammo to shoot, spending 10 minutes per 100, not an hour for a measly 50 rounds.

You can be all smug about quality vs. quantity, we real shooters know the difference. You WON'T find a serious competition shooter who shoots 1500 rounds (or more) a month running a single stage. Period. 1500 rounds at an hour per 50? That's 30 hours a month reloading. Ha. As if.

Get a quality progressive, learn how to use it.... and make ammo.
Leave the smart ass comments for the guys who really are smart. That's not you.


I have OCD tendencies (perfectionistic) in most things.
Not smart? (college grad with masters degree) WTF. Because I don't do it your way?
I've been reloading since the late 1980's.
I've loaded maybe 3,000 rounds in the last 3 years.
Yea, my progressive is a crappy old LEE, but the amount of shooting I do anymore does not justify the purchase of a new progressive.
Sometimes I use a simple Lee hand press at the kitchen table so I can be around my young boys instead of out in garage.
Smart ass? I did not try to be; If I was trying it would be obvious.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:43   #16
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Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post

I have OCD tendencies (perfectionistic) in most things.
Not smart? (college grad with masters degree) WTF. Because I don't do it your way?
I've been reloading since the late 1980's.
I've loaded maybe 3,000 rounds in the last 3 years.
Yea, my progressive is a crappy old LEE, but the amount of shooting I do anymore does not justify the purchase of a new progressive.
Sometimes I use a simple Lee hand press at the kitchen table so I can be around my young boys instead of out in garage.
Smart ass? I did not try to be; If I was trying it would be obvious.
Doing things different isn't the problem.

Smug comments such as "quality vs quantity" *is*. As if using a progressive causes you to lose quality. While you might be college educated, that comment sure caused you to LOOK dumb. Because it literally was a "not smart" comment.

Eric Grauffel is one of the top shooters in the world.
He shoots literally 100,000 - 150,000 rounds PER YEAR.
talks about him reloading 3 hours PER DAY or so to keep up with his shooting needs.

You think his ammo isn't of top quality? You think he's using a single stage to make that ammo?

Jerry Miculek makes HIS own ammo, using a progressive. I can't list every top pro, because many have ammo sponsors that GIVE them ammo for free. But most of us have to make our own, and you won't find one using a single stage, and I don't see "quality" issues from any of them.

Your statement was made from ignorance. You own a ****ty progressive press in which you have no confidence, so feel you need to use a single stage to make good ammo. That's where the fallacy comes in.
For those of us who use a QUALITY progressive press, it allows us to make quality ammo. At speed.

It's fine that you use a single stage press to make your ammo. It works for you. But making statements beyond that about progressive presses and the quality of the ammo produced thereby.... you're in water over your head.

(Note: this entire discussion is based around PISTOL ammo. We're on a pistol-based forum, where the OP is talking about shooting his Glock pistols. Precision benchrest rifle ammo might have different requirements that a single stage is better suited for producing. But that's a different conversation altogether.)

Yes, you stepped on some toes, by the other comments I can see that other SHOOTERS feel the same way. 3000 rounds in 3 years? Roughly 100 rounds per month? Sorry, I don't classify that as "a shooter", but someone who dabbles.

Dabble away. I'll be making quality ammo on my Dillon 650.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:34   #17
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Should have bought a 650 years ago. You would feel different I would guess. Even Lee powder measures have gotten better in the last 5 years.
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Old 11-15-2012, 15:48   #18
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Originally Posted by ron59 View Post
. for cost purposes you should be shooting the G17 more.
I have a nephew named Ron M. In Florida. I thought you might be him at first, until I figured out he's a little older than you, so I'm gonna be your "Dutch Uncle".

I SHOULD? I shoot the .45 because I believe it's a good self defense weapon, and I'm gonna keep shooting it at IDPA practice until I'm as good with it as the 9mm. Then I'll pick up my G17 again and start working on the next level.

For cost purposes I RELOAD! (Edit: WITH a Lee single stage.)

This works for me!

So THERE! You schmart alecky nephew!
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Old 11-15-2012, 17:45   #19
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:54   #20
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Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post









Your response doesn't surprise me at all.

When faced with superior logic, what can you do but this?

/thread
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