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Old 11-16-2012, 12:28   #61
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
If you need to prove to an anti-gunner that they need a gun, you'd be better of stabbing them than trying to take them shooting.
I've taken MANY liberals shooting and never once seen one that didn't have fun with it. The vast majority of ammo I've purchased was shot up by someone else at my encouragement. Almost all or my friends are liberals aside from the few hangers on from the old days.

I'll bet I've turned more liberals on to shooting than any member of GT. Most of them have purchased a gun of their own. We rarely get into the politics of it and when we do I simply ask them to look at the voting record of anyone they think about voting for and if they find anti-gun activity in their past then they might want to treat it like anti-gay or anti-abortion activity. It's all about putting people that understand the concept of freedom into office whatever party they run with.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:30   #62
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Look, I agree with you the economy sucks and it sucked worse when Obama came into office. I don't think either man would have a real significant effect on the future of the economy, it has historically righted and wronged itself, with few exceptions (Bill Clinton era). O represents change and I am a strong believer that change is what makes this nation great. Stagnant conservative ideas do nothing to grow our nation. You can't alienate women, minorities, the poor and anyone who is not upper middle class and white and expect to represent this country. It ain't 1950. If republicans are able to open their tent and really include more than what they expound now I have no issue voting for an elephant. You can't try and outlaw a woman's right to choose are peoples right to marry people of the same gender and represent the majority in this nation. You can't decide that the bible is the "only" word of God or that there is a God and then dictate your politics on dogma and expect to represent a religiously diverse nation. That is why I voted for Obama.
Well put, and I'm right there with you.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:33   #63
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That is why I voted for Obama.
I'm sorry, but you have obviously mistaken us for someone who gives a ****.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:34   #64
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
Look, I agree with you the economy sucks and it sucked worse when Obama came into office. I don't think either man would have a real significant effect on the future of the economy, it has historically righted and wronged itself, with few exceptions (Bill Clinton era).
This shows you really don't know anything about the economy except for long term mean reversion.

Policies have a very large effect on the economy and Romney being elected would have helped the economy a lot. The thing keeping the economy depressed right now is obamacare (for the most part)

During the Clinton era the economy was "good" because of his horrible policies that let anybody, regardless of credit, grab a mortgage on property worth more than they can afford. That prompted tons of mortgages which in turn led to tons of hiring and spending related to that. The economy was plunging already when he was still in office btw.

Also, his lending changes is what caused the housing bubble. Without having to have crap securities banks would not have had to repackage and sell the tranches.


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Old 11-16-2012, 13:11   #65
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post
Look, I agree with you the economy sucks and it sucked worse when Obama came into office. I don't think either man would have a real significant effect on the future of the economy, it has historically righted and wronged itself, with few exceptions (Bill Clinton era). O represents change and I am a strong believer that change is what makes this nation great. Stagnant conservative ideas do nothing to grow our nation. You can't alienate women, minorities, the poor and anyone who is not upper middle class and white and expect to represent this country. It ain't 1950. If republicans are able to open their tent and really include more than what they expound now I have no issue voting for an elephant. You can't try and outlaw a woman's right to choose are peoples right to marry people of the same gender and represent the majority in this nation. You can't decide that the bible is the "only" word of God or that there is a God and then dictate your politics on dogma and expect to represent a religiously diverse nation. That is why I voted for Obama.
So, if I understand it correctly, you voted for Obama more because you don't agree with the Republican social platform, as well as you want change (though I'd argue that change would be getting someone new than someone we've had the last 4 years and has not improved much at all WRT the economy--and probably made it worse).

I'm libertarian. I'm not all that far away from you on social views (seriously, freedom unless you're treading on someone else's rights). However, I think the economy is the most important thing right now and I think Obama is killing it (yeah, the economy does fluctuate but the market manipulation by the government is a big part--and they keep manipulating more).

Anyway, thanks. I was just curious as nobody seems to ever tell me why they voted for Obama, just that they voted against Romney.
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:38   #66
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I'm sorry, but you have obviously mistaken us for someone who gives a ****.
I was asked by someone else, who is clearly less disrespectful and hate filled than you. But thank you for flying your flag and reinforcing that my choice is the correct choice. BTW, it's good to know you speak for everyone on this forum, that is unless when you referred to "us" it was a reference to your multiple selves.
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:45   #67
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So, if I understand it correctly, you voted for Obama more because you don't agree with the Republican social platform, as well as you want change (though I'd argue that change would be getting someone new than someone we've had the last 4 years and has not improved much at all WRT the economy--and probably made it worse).

I'm libertarian. I'm not all that far away from you on social views (seriously, freedom unless you're treading on someone else's rights). However, I think the economy is the most important thing right now and I think Obama is killing it (yeah, the economy does fluctuate but the market manipulation by the government is a big part--and they keep manipulating more).

Anyway, thanks. I was just curious as nobody seems to ever tell me why they voted for Obama, just that they voted against Romney.

You are welcome, and thanks for disagreeing with me respectfully. I'm not saying I'm right or have the 100% answer, nor do I believe O is the cure for what ails our economy, it will take more than him and I believe more than R to do that. I do see as I measure it that things are 'better" today than when he took office. My home is worth more (not by much) than it was 4 years ago, my portfolio is doing better, unemployment (still dismal) is improved (yes I know the numbers are fudged, but they've been fudged by every administration, if you believe R and his buddies would not have claimed victory had he been president an the rate dropped you are lying to yourself). As for Obamacare, we will have to accept I'm on the side of health insurance for everyone, in particular old, mentally or physically ill and children and quite frankly if you have a employees, provide them with reasonable insurance. Is Obamacare the best way to do it, maybe not, but at least it's a start and I don't see republicans trying to find a real solution to all the uninsured working Americans!
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:57   #68
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye16 View Post
This shows you really don't know anything about the economy except for long term mean reversion.

Policies have a very large effect on the economy and Romney being elected would have helped the economy a lot. The thing keeping the economy depressed right now is obamacare (for the most part)

During the Clinton era the economy was "good" because of his horrible policies that let anybody, regardless of credit, grab a mortgage on property worth more than they can afford. That prompted tons of mortgages which in turn led to tons of hiring and spending related to that. The economy was plunging already when he was still in office btw.

Also, his lending changes is what caused the housing bubble. Without having to have crap securities banks would not have had to repackage and sell the tranches.


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Well, it's clear from your first sentence that you are closed to anything but your point of view. But, I'll try anyway. I'm not an economist nor am I trained in economics beyond micro and macro classes at university. But, I read what the "experts" say and I've determined for myself that the "experts" opinions often depend on their own politics or who is lining their pockets, so I try and find "neutral experts" or synthesize "truth" from the battling positions. And what I discern is that the POUS can influence there are two other houses that have a major effect as well, not to mention the Fed. Reserve, international economic conditions, trade, public confidence and perception and simple luck or timing.

If you look historically at recoveries after all major down turns increased govt spending and programs has been a major positive contribution. Put simply, by being a job creator, i.e. employer when private business is to afraid or greedy to do so govt. creates revenue streams into the economy. People with safe jobs spend money. Spend money stimulates the economy (consumer confidence). Govt employees with homes and cars and other stuff encourages non-govt. employees who live next door (keep up with the neighbor) to consume. Is this the only thing needed or the magic bullet, by no means. It's just one historical factor. However, it's the opposite of what Republican's today will do, and I say today because Republicans of the past did it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:07   #69
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Don't come into my store trying to spend your money. Brilliant.
So if it brings in more money I suppose you think it will have been stupid.

Now that is brilliant.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:09   #70
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Originally Posted by greentriple View Post

If you look historically at recoveries after all major down turns increased govt spending and programs has been a major positive contribution. Put simply, by being a job creator, i.e. employer when private business is to afraid or greedy to do so govt. creates revenue streams into the economy. People with safe jobs spend money. Spend money stimulates the economy (consumer confidence). Govt employees with homes and cars and other stuff encourages non-govt. employees who live next door (keep up with the neighbor) to consume. Is this the only thing needed or the magic bullet, by no means. It's just one historical factor. However, it's the opposite of what Republican's today will do, and I say today because Republicans of the past did it.
Cite, please? Are you trying to imply Keynesian Economics?



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Old 11-16-2012, 14:12   #71
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So, I'm guessing you voted for O?


You aren't very quick on the uptake, are you? I insulted Obama in the very post you are replying to.

I'm guessing you subscribe to the reasoning of the group of imbeciles who think that any opposition to something someone who is against Obama is automatically an Obama supporter.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:15   #72
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I know a few strange Obama supporters. But, I don't know one single Obama supporter who owns his own business. So, I agree.
One of my doctors supports Obama, so there's an example for you.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:16   #73
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If you need to prove to an anti-gunner that they need a gun, you'd be better of stabbing them than trying to take them shooting.
Have you ever tried to take one shooting?
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:17   #74
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I voted for Obama and I own more than one gun. In fact, I have many progressive friends who own guns and have no issue with the second amendment. It's conservative politics and close-minded conservatives that worry them and me. It's hate mongers who want to topple a govt. or question its legitimacy b/c they don't like the guy in the Oval Office that my friends and I don't like or respect.. It's Haters who question Obama's citizenship/nationality and right to be President that are a wast of time and as Un-Patriotic. It's not gun ownership that's the problem with the right, but pure ignorance and the lack of ability to accept irresponsibility for failure. Over 50% voted for Obama, more than the "47%" feared by the Right. I did not vote for a hand out, I've not gotten one, and don't expect the shwagg bag to arrive in the mail anytime soon.

But you all have the freedom to type your mind and with the internet you continue to fool yourselves into believing conservatism has a place in America.... Keep writing to the converted it will ensure your ongoing failure.
First, "progressive" is just a relabel for commie, marxist, blame America first, kill live babies out of the womb thanks to a botched abortion, anyone can marry anyone or anything they like philosophy. "Progressive" has no connection to the traditional Dems like JFK. Today, JFK would be spit on by people like you more than they did Romney. Traditional Dems believed in Individual Rights WITH Indvidual Responsibilities. The last part has been deleted by the "Progressives".

Second, this shop owner (AND HE DID BUILD THAT BUSINESS) is saying he does not want to do business with people whose goal is to destroy his business, which is what you are unwittingly trying to do.

So just move along with the other bed wetters.

Last edited by glocktecher; 11-16-2012 at 14:18..
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:20   #75
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Sounds OK to me.

Personally, even though it's not a business, I will not teach a obama supporter to shoot and I won't allow them to shoot on my range.
And you will pass on the chance to convert an anti-gunner, but actually increase the emotional stance against firearms.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:21   #76
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Or anywhere else, for that matter. Obama's "anti-gun activity" is a perception, not a fact. HH
So you do believe what he is saying, or you think he is a liar?

Can't be both.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:25   #77
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye16 View Post
This shows you really don't know anything about the economy except for long term mean reversion.

Policies have a very large effect on the economy and Romney being elected would have helped the economy a lot. The thing keeping the economy depressed right now is obamacare (for the most part)

During the Clinton era the economy was "good" because of his horrible policies that let anybody, regardless of credit, grab a mortgage on property worth more than they can afford. That prompted tons of mortgages which in turn led to tons of hiring and spending related to that. The economy was plunging already when he was still in office btw.

Also, his lending changes is what caused the housing bubble. Without having to have crap securities banks would not have had to repackage and sell the tranches.
Revisionist bullcrap. Remember Bush and the "ownership society"? He continued and expanded on this. They both did it.

Amazing how people will bend over to blame the other side, but give their own side a pass for the same thing.
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:29   #78
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Originally Posted by glocktecher View Post

First, "progressive" is just a relabel for commie, marxist, blame America first, kill live babies out of the womb thanks to a botched abortion, anyone can marry anyone or anything they like philosophy. "Progressive" has no connection to the traditional Dems like JFK. Today, JFK would be spit on by people like you more than they did Romney. Traditional Dems believed in Individual Rights WITH Indvidual Responsibilities. The last part has been deleted by the "Progressives".

Second, this shop owner (AND HE DID BUILD THAT BUSINESS) is saying he does not want to do business with people whose goal is to destroy his business, which is what you are unwittingly trying to do.

So just move along with the other bed wetters.
"Blah blah blah blah words mean what I say blah blah disagree and you are a communist blah blah."

Seriously, why do you care what two consenting people do in private? Are you going to send me to prison for kissing my wife below her waistline?
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:30   #79
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Luckily, there are hundreds if not thousands more that will gladly take your money.
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Old 11-16-2012, 15:47   #80
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"Blah blah blah blah words mean what I say blah blah disagree and you are a communist blah blah."

Seriously, why do you care what two consenting people do in private? Are you going to send me to prison for kissing my wife below her waistline?
Your wife let's you do that? Mine stopped after the "I Do"
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