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Old 11-21-2012, 17:18   #126
tsmo1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
I cannot make it any simpler than this:


If you find a girl who is closed minded to having an abortion, don't screw her if you don't want her deciding how to deal with the life that is emanating from her body.

Yeah, men are on the hook for SUPPORT, but in the history of mankind, WOMEN are the primary caretakers of children.

How many kids do you have?
I have two children, and you?

As for your viewpoint expressed above, how about this alternative? A man should do everything you state, and also exist under a legal system where his voice is heard in policy debates that directly impact him - abortion policy being one such area.

I have no beef with personal responsibility, just with your myopic assertion that men have no place in discussing abortion policy.
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:23   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
I have two children, and you?

As for your viewpoint expressed above, how about this alternative? A man should do everything you state, and also exist under a legal system where his voice is heard in policy debates that directly impact him - abortion policy being one such area.

I have no beef with personal responsibility, just with your myopic assertion that men have no place in discussing abortion policy.
I didn't say men should have no place discussing abortion policy - I said there should be no abortion policy, and that the only abortion policies (y) men should set are with the women they are sleeping with.

If you think my view is myopic...I suspect my lens are clearer than yours.

Last edited by Gallium; 11-21-2012 at 17:24..
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:24   #128
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Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
I have two children, and you?
...

Are you the primary caregiver of your two children? Or were you when they were in their formative years?
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:27   #129
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If you don't want to have to pay child support, don't use your real name for women that you meet at bars...

Seriously though, it's gotten to the point where you need to have the woman sign a pre-coital contract before you ever even consider unzipping... Back in the good ol' days, there was such social stigma on unwed mothers that all you had to do is offer to pay for the abortion and it was handily agreed to. In fact, there was enough stigma that the women would often get the abortion out of town and not tell the guy or their family. Of course, this was also the time when the guys were addressed by the girl's father (and his shotgun) who said, "Boy, ya' gonna do tha right thing, right?"...
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:34   #130
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Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
The problem right now, though, is that men like me DON'T have a say in pregnancy/abortion decisions, even if we are the father of the child in question.
The mother and father both get a vote in the keep / abort decision. Tie goes to the mom, as it should.

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Old 11-21-2012, 17:35   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallium View Post
I didn't say men should have no place discussing abortion policy - I said there should be no abortion policy, and that the only abortion policies (y) men should set are with the women they are sleeping with.

If you think it is myopic...I suspect my lens are clearer than yours.
But my point is that there ARE abortion policies and that reality isn't going away any time soon. In fact, it CAN'T. Even if the government decides that it won't step into the abortion decision at all, that in itself is a policy.

You may long for a world where abortion is simply a private discussion between two responsible adults who would never lie to one another and where a social safety network would never have to step in at taxpayer expense should their decision go South, but that's not the reality we live in.
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:38   #132
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Are you the primary caregiver of your two children? Or were you when they were in their formative years?
That's awfully personal considering you never bothered to answer my own question back to you on how many children you have.

Quid pro quo, Clarice! Quid pro quo.

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Old 11-21-2012, 17:46   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
But my point is that there ARE abortion policies and that reality isn't going away any time soon. In fact, it CAN'T. Even if the government decides that it won't step into the abortion decision at all, that in itself is a policy.

You may long for a world where abortion is simply a private discussion between two responsible adults who would never lie to one another and where a social safety network would never have to step in at taxpayer expense should their decision go South, but that's not the reality we live in.
My point still stands - the should be no .gov policy on abortion. The only folks who should have any say on who gets an abortion are the folks who are faced with that decision. Go back thru the thread and investigate if I have deviated from that position.
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:47   #134
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Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
That's awfully personal considering you never bothered to answer my own question back to you on how many children you have.

Quid pro quo, Clarice! Quid pro quo.


My wife is the primary caregiver of our children, as my mother was the primary care giver of my siblings and I.

I have four sons.
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Old 11-21-2012, 18:01   #135
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My wife is the primary caregiver of our children, as my mother was the primary care giver of my siblings and I.

I have four sons.
I have a son and a step-daughter. My ex-wife and I share co-custody of my son and his residency is mainly split between us (she only lives 20 minutes away). As for primary caregiver, that was me for the first ten years or so as she had some serious issues she was going through. Things are much better now and it's more of a 50/50 arrangement, although I pay primary financial support by choice.

My current (and permanent) wife is the primary caregiver to her daughter, who lives with us, but if you ask my step-daughter who she's closest to, she'll tell you that it's me since she is at that "tween" stage now where Mom doesn't know anything and they butt heads like two rams over every issue imagineable.
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Old 11-21-2012, 18:09   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
I have a son and a step-daughter. My ex-wife and I share co-custody of my son and his residency is mainly split between us (she only lives 20 minutes away). As for primary caregiver, that was me for the first ten years or so as she had some serious issues she was going through. Things are much better now and it's more of a 50/50 arrangement, although I pay primary financial support by choice.

My current (and permanent) wife is the primary caregiver to her daughter, who lives with us, but if you ask my step-daughter who she's closest to, she'll tell you that it's me since she is at that "tween" stage now where Mom doesn't know anything and they butt heads like two rams over every issue imagineable.
So in your previous relationship, by your admission, the maternal parent was dysfunctional and you had to take the role of primary caregiver.

In the United States, what % of primary caregivers would you estimate are female?
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Old 11-21-2012, 18:22   #137
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So in your previous relationship, by your admission, the maternal parent was dysfunctional and you had to take the role of primary caregiver.

In the United States, what % of primary caregivers would you estimate are female?
How is that even relevant? To argue that a child only impacts your life if you are the primary care giver is absurd. What of the primary supporter and provider? I have been in both roles and can safely tell you that neither one is an easier path than the other.

The entire basis of the "right to choose" argument is that it's wrong to tell a woman what she has to do with her own body for nine months. What about telling the man he has to work a second job or otherwise dedicate his body and labor to supporting a child for 18 years?

Where is his 'choice' in that equation?

Short answer...there isn't one, but the man DOES at least get to speak out on the policies that surround abortion, and this is as it should be. It is a myth that abortion is a "women's only" issue that men should essentially stay out of except when it's time for sex.
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Old 11-21-2012, 18:29   #138
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Originally Posted by tsmo1066 View Post
How is that even relevant? To argue that a child only impacts your life if you are the primary care giver is absurd. What of the primary supporter and provider? I have been in both roles and can safely tell you that neither one is an easier path than the other.

The entire basis of the "right to choose" argument is that it's wrong to tell a woman what she has to do with her own body for nine months. What about telling the man he has to work a second job or otherwise dedicate his body and labor to supporting a child for 18 years?

Where is his 'choice' in that equation?


Short answer...there isn't one, but the man DOES at least get to speak out on the policies that surround abortion, and this is as it should be. It is a myth that abortion is a "women's only" issue that men should essentially stay out of except when it's time for sex.
Once again, you are projecting your opinion on what you think I am saying, and jacking up the dialogue with histrionics. How about this, return to the discussion (actually any discussion with me) when you are capable of dispassionately looking at an issue.

And again you are occluding my very clearly stated positions with what you misconstrue them to be, or maybe what you'd like them to be, to bolster your rebuttal arguments.

Clearly, nothing I have said in any of this dialogue has registered enough with you for you to be intellectually honest as to what my position is.

It's not been very pleasurable conversing with you. Fortunately I won't be making that error again.


Respectfully,
- G
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Old 11-21-2012, 19:28   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HollowHead View Post
Even under the mess that is Obamacare, you still have the right to pay over and above and dictate your treatment as you see fit. Again, nothing to do at all with the story at hand here. HH
We will See, and ANY government intervention in ones health care issues HAS everything to do with the story at hand. Your just another fool who believes everything he is told by every lying politician involved in writing it and signing into law

And as for the story at hand, is if government had no rights in the intervention in anyone's health care, this would have never happened. PERIOD.

Last edited by kat1950; 11-21-2012 at 20:01..
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Old 12-03-2012, 15:03   #140
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It's all been a pack of lies

Irish Times reporter admits woman who activists claim died because she was denied abortion may not have requested one before she died.

Quote:
Ever since her tragic death, abortion activists have argued that Ireland’s abortion laws were responsible. However, during an interview on Ireland’s “Coleman at Large” radio program, Irish Times reporter Kitty Holland said hospital records do not show Halappanavar requesting an abortion.
Quote:
Physicians worldwide agree that even if an abortion had been requested, Savita’s life could not have been saved by the dangerous procedure. India’s well-respected Dr. Divakar was quoted by The Hindu, stating: “Based on information in the media, in that situation of septicaemia, if the doctors had meddled with the live baby, Savita would have died two days earlier.”
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/iris...fore-she-died/
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