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Old 11-15-2012, 11:44   #26
Travclem
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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454 View Post
Travclem
Well hell I shoot cast all the time in both 5.56mm and 300 Blk Ar's ! Works just fine!
Any reliability issues? I'd think it would be more prone to feeding issues. How about leading the gas port?
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:10   #27
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If this is your first AR, do yourself a favor and go with 5.56mm. Plenty of time later to add a 300 blackout upper or rifle. Also, definitely definitely buy a mil-spec gun. These are a few brands I know are at least mil-spec and perform well:Daniel Defense, Colt, BCM, Spike's Tactical (This is what I own), LMT, and Palmetto State makes guns to mil-spec also, but personally I would go with one of the others. At your budget, I would buy a Daniel Defense. Sounds like you should go with a 16" barrel, as others have said, preferably cold-hammer forged, which DD's are. A lot of people recommend Colt 6920's as first AR's. Whatever you do, I cant stress enough to go with one of the brands I mentioned. Im no expert, but I have researched and read a whole lot on who makes good rifles. M4carbine.net is a great site for information, only thing I dont like about that site is if you dont own a DD or BCM they make you out to be a complete moron. I disagree, if you dont buy a rifle that is built to at least mil-spec, then you are a moron. Mil-spec rifles can be had for about the same price range as other lower tier manufacturers such as rock river, olympic, dpms, stag, doublestar, cmmg, etc...A lot of people will say they have one of these brands and theyve never had a problem in 3 gazillion-quintillion rounds, fact is, these brands just are not built to the same quality as Daniel defense, bcm, spike's, colt, or lmt...
As far as optics go, I cant offer a lot of advice, other than to parrot what Ive read from other people, and tell you what I did and am happy with. A lot of guys like the Aimpoint PRO, and Eotech's, either one you can add a magnifier to. Personally, I bought a burris 2-7x35 scope on a Burris PEPR QD mount, and mounted a Burris fast-fire III on top. The mount comes with scope rings that have rail sections on top. I use the scope for 50-60 yards and farther, and up close I transition to the fastfire. I really enjoy this setup, it ran me about $450 total if I remember correctly, but I bought everything separately when I had the money.
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Old 11-15-2012, 13:06   #28
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Are you planning on trying to shoot cast boolits in an AR?
That is in the game plan yep, either .223 or 30 cal bullets in factory jacketed form will be significantly above what I have laid out for the amount of shooting I want to do.

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OP I have a 16" unsurpressed 300 Blk and yes it lends itself very well to cast bullet use.
I run subs and supers in cast out of it very nicely. Now finding a complete rifle in the caliber will take some research. If your a reloader-when you go to the range make it a point to start picking up .223/5.56mm brass to convert to 300 Blk- very easy to do many video on youtube show you how. Probably be easier to get a 5.56mm AR now and then get an 300Blk upper later. For the ranges you expect to shoot at the 300 Bk fit perfectly. If you want more info on the 300 Blk feel free to PM me at anytime
Much appreciated, I probably have between 2000 and 3000 cases downstairs currently and can pick up several hundred more a month so I am likely good for the near future at least.

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Do not base your decision on what looks cool in a picture thread.
Believe me I do not care one bit how cool something looks when it comes to guns, performance is all that matters. Looks on women and cars matter, guns no.

Thanks guys I will check out the picture thread and see what looks interesting.

Rich
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Old 11-15-2012, 13:31   #29
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Company reps are not always the best source of information about there products. While the 300 BLK can be shot from 300-440 meters, one musy shoot supersonic ammo, which defeats the primary purpose of the round, and do math regularly which few enjoy.

A 5.56 allows a maximum point blank range of 300 yards. With m193 zeroed at 40 yards bullet trajectory stays within 3.5 inches of line of sight out past 300 yards. Plus, 5.56 ammo is cheaper and has lower recoil.
It seems (to me anyway) that supersonic ammo was the primary purpose of this round.

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Introducing the Advanced Armament Corp. 300 AAC Blackout (300BLK). This system was developed to launch 30 caliber projectiles from the AR platform without a reduction in magazine capacity and compatible with the standard bolt.
Full power 115-125 grain ammunition matches the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm AK, and eclipses 5.56mm with much higher-mass projectiles for a more dramatic effect on the target. Or choose subsonic cartridges for optimal use with a sound suppressor - 220 grain Sierra OTM (open-tip match) bullets vastly outperforms a 9mm MP5-SD in penetration and long range accuracy.
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Old 11-15-2012, 16:01   #30
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With your budget, you should have no problem getting a great rifle. Up it just a little bit, and you can have a great rifle/great optic combo right off the bat.

Here's what I did: I went to Bravo Company USA and picked out the rifle that looked closest to what I wanted. In my case, that was the Mid-16 Mod 2 Carbine. I knew that I absolutely could not beat BCM for price to quality ratio.

I knew I wanted a RDS on my rig and I know you can't do better than Aimpoint for price to quality ratio. I ended up with the Micro H-1, but almost went with the Pro.

I knew I had top-notch quality and terrific bang-for-the-buck. Now I've just been shooting it and figuring out what else I'd like to do with the rifle before I make more upgrades. So far, I've added a new stock, new flash suppressor, new pistol grip and a LaRue 660 mount for the Aimpoint. Next will probably be rail guards and maybe a vertical grip.

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Old 11-15-2012, 16:40   #31
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Nope run just like they due with store bought ammo. Have to do a little extra cleaning but not much. Course I don't shoot them at the same velocity as jacketed but they are more then capable for training/hunting and SD/HD. Shoot the 5.56mm and 300 Blk out to 200 yards plus no problems!
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:01   #32
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It seems (to me anyway) that supersonic ammo was the primary purpose of this round.
If you are refering to .300 BLK you would be incorrect. It was designed to give the operator a familiar platform that would outperform common sub guns like the MP5 w/ the use of heavier subsonic rounds. The supersonic features were an added bonus. Check out SilencerTalk and the .300BLK forum. Am I wrong?
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:08   #33
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If you are refering to .300 BLK you would be incorrect. It was designed to give the operator a familiar platform that would outperform common sub guns like the MP5 w/ the use of heavier subsonic rounds. The supersonic features were an added bonus. Check out SilencerTalk and the .300BLK forum. Am I wrong?
Yes. You are wrong. AAC designed the 300BLK to replicate the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm reliably from an AR15. Nothing about 7.62x39mm indicates a foundation based on subsonic use in close quarters. As I said, to me. Now back in the corner.
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:13   #34
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Yes. You are wrong. AAC designed the 300BLK to replicate the ballistics of the 7.62x39mm reliably from an AR15. Nothing about 7.62x39mm indicates a foundation based on subsonic use in close quarters. As I said, to me. Now back in the corner.
Oh yeah? That's why the first ammunition on the market for the .300 BLK was 220gr subsonics, right? I know if I was releasing something for use with supersonic ammunition I would release supersonic ammuntion first. Makes sense to me, lol.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:20   #35
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Last time I checked AAC was a silencer company. Didn't they develop the round to be quiet? It is pretty much just a SAAMI spec .300 whisper. The whisper is a wildcat .300/.221 fireball round developed to be quiet and the Blackout is a .300/.223 you can even shoot .300whisper in a .300Blackout chamber. I don't work for them but this is the only thing that makes sense.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:50   #36
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Last time I checked AAC was a silencer company. Didn't they develop the round to be quiet? It is pretty much just a SAAMI spec .300 whisper. The whisper is a wildcat .300/.221 fireball round developed to be quiet and the Blackout is a .300/.223 you can even shoot .300whisper in a .300Blackout chamber. I don't work for them but this is the only thing that makes sense.
I'll say this and I'm done. AAC developed the 300BLK to shoot super and subsonic ammo from the same barrel with no external adjustments. So it does both. If you can provide hard evidence (an actual response from AAC, not anecdotal suggestion) that the primary reason 300BLK is for subsonic use, then I'm wrong.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:27   #37
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Course I don't shoot them at the same velocity as jacketed but they are more then capable for training/hunting and SD/HD.
What velocity do you shoot cast bullets at?
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:37   #38
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What velocity do you shoot cast bullets at?
I never was able to find a cast bullet load that would cycle an AR reliably without seeing pressure signs or excessive barrel leading. If someone has one, please share....
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:50   #39
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I run my 5.56mm cast at 1875 fps- 18.7 gr IMR4895 for full function and zero leading! For no leading -proper sizing and lube. Gas checked of course. In the 300 Blk I run my 150 gr Cast GC at 1995 fps, 170 gr Cast GC at 1875 fps again properly sized and lubed zero leading! Full function.
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Old 11-16-2012, 13:20   #40
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That’s pretty slow. How much does that load change your point of impact at what ever range you zero?
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Old 11-16-2012, 14:28   #41
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Thatís pretty slow. How much does that load change your point of impact at what ever range you zero?
I would be very interested in this also

So here is what I have come up with so far.

Flat top upper no handle

Full length quad rail- may as well just get it and not have to worry

vertical foregrip- it just feels better and more natural for me

Optics- I am still not sure on the RDS or Holo or scope, for my distances ( most under 100, all under 300) what would be a good idea and my best bet within my budget. Also a magnifier for a RDS I have never seen one, could I get a run down on those from some experienced users.

Now leaning more to 300 Black since 1 Sounds like would be more condusive to cast which is what I will have to shoot 90% of the time to afford as much ammo as I want. 2, Something different and more interesting. 3, I just cannot see a real downside other than ammo costs which are mitigated if I reload.

Since this will be a secondary HD weapon after the tried and true 12ga I do need reliability and ease of use.

Looking at the shortest barrel I can without running afoul of that wonderful gestapo like agency the ATF which is if I am not mistaken 14.5 with permanently attached muzzle brake?

With all this and the budget I have am I doomed to building this myself or does someone out there make what I am looking for?

Thanks for all the help here, I do love GT.

Rich
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Old 11-16-2012, 15:04   #42
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Also a magnifier for a RDS I have never seen one, could I get a run down on those from some experienced users.
For me, it is not an optimal set up. I donít like how the gun balances and swings with the magnifier flipped to the side. Also, some flip mounts do not lock in the flipped down position, allowing it to bounce around. If you are going to go that way, I recommend the Larue mount (I know, big surprise.). I prefer the twist off mounts but then you have to insure the magnifier is with the gun.
Personally, if I need magnification, I go with a low power variable. Yes, itís more eye relief particular and slightly slower at close range than a red dot but everythingís a trade off. Thatís why my close range carbine has an Aimpoint and my GP gun has a 1.5-6 Weaver Euro.
This is just my opinion, based on what works for me. Some people find a magnifier + RDS very useful.
Based on your eye issues, a low power variable might be a good place to start.
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Old 11-16-2012, 18:40   #43
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With my primary trainer (PSA) its about 1" low at 50 yards where as my Dot is about 1" high at 50 yards with M193 and a center hold. So I don't worry about changing anything when I train with these rounds. My other carbine is scoped 1.5" high with M193 at 100 yards a dead on maybe a tad low with cast at 100 yards!
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Old 11-16-2012, 21:18   #44
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That’s much closer than I would have thought. Thanks.
I’ll be staying with FMJ’s but if it works for you, great!
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:14   #45
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The best part is the cost is only $.10 or less a round!! Where as the average cost of FMJ is about $.34-5 now for FMJ. Since I have about 500 # of lead , free cases only thing a pay for is primers ,powder, gaschecks.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:47   #46
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Kudoís to you gunnut, rock on.
Just curious, what type of lead, wheel weights?
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:03   #47
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So I am now significantly leaning towards the 300 blackout for several reasons, something different, will not cost me more to shoot than 5.56, can supress it at some point in the future if I want to, can run subsonics with full function. Here now is my problem. I have looked at LMT, DD, BCM, DSG and nothing is even close to my price range before optic. Looking at http://www.joeboboutfitters.com, they have a Spikes lower and a CMMG upper for 955 but that I am sure does not include everything like the foregrip and the BUIS which would likely only leave me 300 or so to get an optic which I find unlikely to happen.

I am sure I am missing something here as to availability and sources since I just looked at the ones listed in this thread. Please enlighten me slightly more on sources and it looks like I shall be good and then comes the Optics discussion which I am sure will be enlightening to me.

Appreciate the help

Rich
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:15   #48
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So I am now significantly leaning towards the 300 blackout for several reasons, something different, will not cost me more to shoot than 5.56, can supress it at some point in the future if I want to, can run subsonics with full function. Here now is my problem. I have looked at LMT, DD, BCM, DSG and nothing is even close to my price range before optic. Looking at http://www.joeboboutfitters.com, they have a Spikes lower and a CMMG upper for 955 but that I am sure does not include everything like the foregrip and the BUIS which would likely only leave me 300 or so to get an optic which I find unlikely to happen.

I am sure I am missing something here as to availability and sources since I just looked at the ones listed in this thread. Please enlighten me slightly more on sources and it looks like I shall be good and then comes the Optics discussion which I am sure will be enlightening to me.

Appreciate the help

Rich
Last I priced it, .300 ammo was still 10-20% more expensive than 5.56, even with the currently inflated prices on 5.56 ammo. Plus, .300 will probably rise as 5.56 does, since they use nearly identical brass.

Since it is still new to market (and sells at lower volume) finding a .300 upper in the same price range as 5.56 will be highly difficult.

5.56 can still be suppressed. While it's not as quiet as subsonic .300, you can still get a 16" barrel well below hearing safe levels.

Finally, I would avoid CMMG. They have a bit of a hit-and-miss reputation. Two different GT posters here recently had issues with CMMG lowers with out-of-spec mag wells, for example.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:33   #49
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Here's the CMMG thread and fwiw mine works fine.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:40   #50
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Here's the CMMG thread and fwiw mine works fine.
Appreciate it, I will read that later, I have never heard of the company before. Since I do reload and will cast for the rifle, that is why I am saying it really will not be any more expensive. Wish I could find just very very cheap bulk .224's but I just cannot.
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