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Old 11-14-2012, 12:51   #1
badge315
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Tasered while trying to extinguish fire

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/a...e-burning-home

In a nutshell, the guy was trying to keep his house from burning down with a garden hose and police ordered him to stop, then zapped him when he refused. On its face it sounds outrageous, but I have a nagging suspicion that something is being left out of the story. What do you guys think? Was this an inappropriate use of force?
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:06   #2
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:09   #3
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Hard to say, but I can tell you that, under KY law, they could (maybe) arrest him for that. However, he'd still win the civil suit.

Quote:
525.060 Disorderly conduct in the second degree.
(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct in the second degree when in a public place and with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or wantonly creating a risk thereof, he:
...
(c) Refuses to obey an official order to disperse issued to maintain public safety in dangerous proximity to a fire, hazard, or other emergency; or
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:11   #4
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I'd be suing that department for sure. I can see them trying to keep him safe or whatever, but damn. At least let him help till the fire department gets there.

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Old 11-14-2012, 13:14   #5
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It's one of those things where criminally they're in the right. The cops told him to stop, he didn't, therefore he can get in trouble. But in this case, civilly they'd be in the wrong, as the story stands. However, I'm with you badge, I have this nagging suspicion that something is being left out. I honestly can't think of why the cops would taser him. However, I'm not a cop, I don't think we have the full story, and I bet they had good reason to do so.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:22   #6
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Maybe he didn't wish to create joinder with them...

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Old 11-14-2012, 13:25   #7
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Hmmm, sorry but I smell a law suit on the horizon. First he's on private property (HIS) and he is trying to save said private property (again HIS), at least minimize the damage until the fire department arrives. The cops tell HIM to stop saving HIS property/investment... I would have done the same, FU, you're not paying for it, you're not the one responsible for it and you sure and ******* aren't helping me save it so back the F off.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:34   #8
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Odd. Any police officer that I know, would have been helping get water on the roof.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:36   #9
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If he was trying to run into a house that is engulfed in flames, I could see it being justified to restrain him (tackle or taser) to save his life. To do that when he is just spraying water on the outside of his house while standing outside I just don't get.
Either there is some key piece of info missing, or the officers were way out of line and deserve a civil suit on this one.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:37   #10
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At least the cop went home safe, that's all that matters!.......
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:38   #11
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Originally Posted by SMOKEin View Post
Odd. Any police officer that I know, would have been helping get water on the roof.
That just made me think of something. Maybe they were protecting their unions. It's the firefighters job to put out the fire, and that homeowner is probably not part of the union, so that is why he wasn't allowed to do it. That would be why they didn't help either
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:43   #12
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Hard to say, but I can tell you that, under KY law, they could (maybe) arrest him for that. However, he'd still win the civil suit.

Quote:
525.060 Disorderly conduct in the second degree.
(1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct in the second degree when in a public place and with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or wantonly creating a risk thereof, he:
...
(c) Refuses to obey an official order to disperse issued to maintain public safety in dangerous proximity to a fire, hazard, or other emergency; or
How would this apply to a private property owner on their own property?



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Old 11-14-2012, 13:45   #13
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Originally Posted by article
Captain Forseth said the department will not be charging him.
Gee, I wonder why. God forbid this see a criminal court in addition to the civil court.
Quote:
Captain Forseth with the Pinellas Park Police Department said they exhausted all other options, and that their goal was to keep Daniel and the officers safe from the fire.
First, they have no duty to protect Daniel. But they only let us know this when it is convenient to them. Their officers were ONLY in danger (and even then probably not) BECAUSE of their insistence on being obeyed when they had no right to insist. I don't think it was a lawful order. Should one be required to watch his house burn down so he can file a complaint through the proper channels?

Second, which is more dangerous, being close enough to a guy putting out a fire to order him to stop; or getting close enough to Tase him so you can drag him away?

Interestingly, in some parts of this country, the fire department also can stand by and watch your house burn if you haven't pre-paid for their protection.

It's probably illegal that I have my own fire hose, hydrant wrench, and the knowledge on how to use them.
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Old 11-14-2012, 13:53   #14
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
It's one of those things where criminally they're in the right. The cops told him to stop, he didn't, therefore he can get in trouble. But in this case, civilly they'd be in the wrong, as the story stands. However, I'm with you badge, I have this nagging suspicion that something is being left out. I honestly can't think of why the cops would taser him. However, I'm not a cop, I don't think we have the full story, and I bet they had good reason to do so.

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Old 11-14-2012, 13:58   #15
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Yeah, that thought had crossed my mind too.
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Old 11-14-2012, 14:40   #16
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Interestingly, in some parts of this country, the fire department also can stand by and watch your house burn if you haven't pre-paid for their protection.
Could be worse.

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Old 11-14-2012, 14:43   #17
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They secured a potential arson suspect.

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Old 11-14-2012, 16:22   #18
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Open carry would have prevented this. Well, the tasering anyway.

I am afraid that I would not react well to this situation if I were the homeowner.

Back in the late 30's my wife's mother was with a group of teens in Oklahoma who came upon an accident on a rural road. While they were attempting to extricate the victim an official arrived and took control of the scene and ordered them away from the vehicle to await the arrival of an ambulance, eventually drawing a weapon when they attempted to continue working to get him out.

Then they all stood around and watched him burn to death.

That story has stuck with me for more than 30 years since I first heard it from her mom. It was fresh in her mind 40 years after it happened.

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Old 11-14-2012, 16:38   #19
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Quote:
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How would this apply to a private property owner on their own property?



red
I'm pretty sure he cited the wrong reason. My take, and I'm no lawyer. is that it's illegal to take a life, even if that life is yours. So I'm guessing if the cop can prove that his (the victim's) actions were "suicidal" or that he (victim) was recklessly endangering his own life, the cop had justification to use any means necessary to stop him.

I've heard of cops shooting suspects threatening to kill themselves with a knife before.

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Old 11-14-2012, 16:46   #20
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Had the guy been trying to enter the house then I'm all for the taser, most people don't understand how quick smoke will take you out. My Dept. was called to a house fire that I was real close to but many miles from my Dept so I went straight to the fire to await the trucks. A good size lady was screaming her cat was inside, smoke was close to the floor but no visible fire. I tried to keep her out but nope, she rushed in the door and within seconds she collapsed in the first room. I was able to crawl in and drag her out and we both ended up getting treated for smoke inhalation.

If the guy was just trying to spray water on the outside then they should of been helping him. I'd like to know the rest of the story but the guy seems to be telling the truth.
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Old 11-14-2012, 16:51   #21
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Originally Posted by redbaron007 View Post
How would this apply to a private property owner on their own property?



red
Not sure about anywhere else but if its on fire when the FD arrives its no longer your house till we clear the scene. Not sure why the LEO were there to begin with, they only respond with us if ask.
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Old 11-14-2012, 16:55   #22
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I can definitely see a lawsuit over this one.
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Old 11-14-2012, 17:16   #23
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Originally Posted by G19_AJ View Post
At least the cop went home safe, that's all that matters!.......

We had one in GA Monday that didn't. Got ran over trying to help a stranded motorist. Hope it makes you happy that he " didn't go home safe".
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Old 11-14-2012, 17:26   #24
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We had one in GA Monday that didn't. Got ran over trying to help a stranded motorist. Hope it makes you happy that he " didn't go home safe".
Way to mis-characterize a post! You should apply to law school or perhaps consider a career in journalism.

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Old 11-14-2012, 17:54   #25
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We had one in GA Monday that didn't. Got ran over trying to help a stranded motorist. Hope it makes you happy that he " didn't go home safe".
Disregard Mr. Happy, please.

We all sympathize and and are sorry for your loss.

Everybody here agrees that LEO's have an important job, and values their contribution to our civil society.
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