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Old 11-18-2012, 12:25   #41
District18
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I feel bad for all those Troopers who bought back up GAPs.

Isn't true that PSP are only permitted to fire authorized ammunition from their duty pistol?
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Old 11-18-2012, 14:06   #42
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Wish Glock would make a 45acp the same size as the S&W M&P full size double-stack
It's smaller than the G21 and easier to conceal carry.

Last edited by "Cold Dead Hands" !; 11-18-2012 at 14:08..
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:24   #43
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Originally Posted by PattonT View Post
They have been saying they are switching for about two years now. I don't foresee it happening. I will say that agencies that seek the CALEA accreditation can't have service weapons older than 4 yrs so if they update to new handguns they may as well switch.
Hmmmmm. Not sure about this info. My agency hooked up with CALEA last year, our commissioner I'd even in the national board, but we've had our "new" duty pistols about 5 or 6 years now.

As for the PSP and their GAP, face it. That round is dead or dying. It was a gimmicky attempt at fixing a problem that wasn't really affecting many people. The poster above mentioned that the GAP mimics the .45 ACP, so why not use the more popular, easier to find, field tested, veteran approved, doctor recommended round?
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:32   #44
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Oh hell, just issue DE in .50AE and be done with it. While we are at it swap out the .22 varmint rifle AR's and go w/ a solid .375 H&H. Now when someone gets popped there will be no lame trip to the ER.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:30   #45
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Originally Posted by "Cold Dead Hands" ! View Post
Wish Glock would make a 45acp the same size as the S&W M&P full size double-stack
It's smaller than the G21 and easier to conceal carry.
G30sf ?
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:32   #46
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G21sf would be ideal.
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Old 11-18-2012, 21:51   #47
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Here in TN the State Police (Troopers) switched from G22 to G31 a few years back..I was told the 357Sig was better at penetrating Car doors and windshields...

I like the 45acp myself...
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Old 11-18-2012, 22:44   #48
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Originally Posted by packinaglock View Post
G30sf ?
Yep, your right on.
But, I was just holding a S&W M&P45 a hour ago, and it felt good.
About the same size as a M&P40.
4.5" barrel, 10 round mags.
It feels much smaller than the G21.
It's a full size gun, but streamlined enough to carry easily.
Most of all, it has a 4.5" barrel, like the G21, which gives a big 230gr bullet enough speed to do the job.

Last edited by "Cold Dead Hands" !; 11-19-2012 at 00:09..
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:36   #49
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It is not only about testing the weapon for function, reliability, etc. It is important for large police agencies to test the prospective weapons with the people who will be issued same weapons. For example, the strong shooters, the weak shooters, the males with large hands, the females with small hands, patrol units, investigative units, etc. The weapon has to be a "fit" for the people using it. Not to test the weapons in this manner would be irresponsible.
And to add, testing for fit in holsters with summer gear, winter gear, teams that serve other purposes outside of classic "road patrol" (ESU/Rescue/SWAT), testing with flashlights, testing for fit on a belt that already has/needs 5-8 other items there, testing with gloves, etc.

A study on a flat piece of paper is great, but most of us don't buy even the most mundane of products without some hands on time with the product. We check out furniture, cars, beds, gloves, eyeglasses, etc.

What says a dept that is telling it's officers about a critical piece of gear they may have to, and in many cases, will have to roll the fate of their lives on?


Would you (not you 4949) be cool with buying and using a parachute because another agency tested it extensively? NOT ME!
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:23   #50
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Would you (not you 4949) be cool with buying and using a parachute because another agency tested it extensively? NOT ME!
Me neither!
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:00   #51
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Originally Posted by District18 View Post
I feel bad for all those Troopers who bought back up GAPs.

Isn't true that PSP are only permitted to fire authorized ammunition from their duty pistol?
Unless things have changed...and I doubt it...only issued ammo is authorized in the duty weapon.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:55   #52
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Cool. Like an idiot I sold my 2004 G21 (light primer strikes). But totally redeemed myself with a G20SF.
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Old 11-19-2012, 16:40   #53
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Originally Posted by "Cold Dead Hands" ! View Post
Yep, your right on.
But, I was just holding a S&W M&P45 a hour ago, and it felt good.
About the same size as a M&P40.
4.5" barrel, 10 round mags.
It feels much smaller than the G21.
It's a full size gun, but streamlined enough to carry easily.
Most of all, it has a 4.5" barrel, like the G21, which gives a big 230gr bullet enough speed to do the job.
I really want to check out a S&W M&P 45c, I keep hearing they are the same size as a G19. But have yet to hold one or even see one.
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Old 11-19-2012, 21:40   #54
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I really want to check out a S&W M&P 45c, I keep hearing they are the same size as a G19. But have yet to hold one or even see one.
Yeah, you got to hold one side by side, one in each hand.
The G19,23,32 are the perfect size, all around guns.
But the S&W M&P9 or .40 or 45 are not much bigger, and are all 9mm size frames.
And if you want a full size .45, that's still small enough to carry, this M&P45 is nice.
A friend of mine, a life long, die-hard .45acp, 1911 only owner.
I tried to talk him into a polymer gun for lighter weight carry.
He tried them all, but only liked the M&P45 with 4.5"barrel.
M&P's are not quite as good as Glocks.
But this M&P45 is just the right size, for a full size .45 that's still easy to conceal carry.
Why, because it's a full size 45 stuffed into a 9mm size frame !

Last edited by "Cold Dead Hands" !; 11-22-2012 at 13:28..
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Old 11-20-2012, 00:12   #55
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Last edited by DFin; 11-30-2013 at 11:54..
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:46   #56
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I really want to check out a S&W M&P 45c, I keep hearing they are the same size as a G19. But have yet to hold one or even see one.
So is the G36 also.
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Old 11-20-2012, 21:06   #57
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This is not happening in the near future, maybe a few years, but not now with the way the economy is going. I have had contact with numerous troopers, They know nothing about this. They offered;

1. PA has a large deficit and financial problems, can't substantiate cost of new holsters, Mag. Pouches, Magazines etc.
2. Nothing wrong with their present G37's.
3. They appear to like the G37 and have had excellent results in Trooper involved shootings.
4. They have ammo!!!!!
5. .45 GAP is $10.00 less a case then .45 ACP on state bid. I just ordered both for our PD.
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Last edited by SGT45; 11-20-2012 at 21:06..
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Old 11-20-2012, 21:46   #58
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This is not happening in the near future, maybe a few years, but not now with the way the economy is going. I have had contact with numerous troopers, They know nothing about this. They offered;

1. PA has a large deficit and financial problems, can't substantiate cost of new holsters, Mag. Pouches, Magazines etc.
2. Nothing wrong with their present G37's.
3. They appear to like the G37 and have had excellent results in Trooper involved shootings.
4. They have ammo!!!!!
5. .45 GAP is $10.00 less a case then .45 ACP on state bid. I just ordered both for our PD.
Thanks for the info.

Wasn't expecting the GAP to be cheaper but really it should be. Cheaper small pistol primer, less brass for the case and less powder.

Last edited by dkf; 11-20-2012 at 21:47..
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:58   #59
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Oh hell, just issue DE in .50AE and be done with it. While we are at it swap out the .22 varmint rifle AR's and go w/ a solid .375 H&H. Now when someone gets popped there will be no lame trip to the ER.

This I agree with.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:32   #60
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5. .45 GAP is $10.00 less a case then .45 ACP on state bid. I just ordered both for our PD.
That is because the ammo is being discontinued!




J/k! Were those from the same manufacturer and same style?
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Last edited by PattonT; 11-21-2012 at 09:32..
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