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Old 11-14-2012, 10:33   #21
Gary1911A1
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Sometimes it's not low bidder, but minority bidder.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:45   #22
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There usually is not any speakable difference in contract price of .45acp or .45gap. The PSP was and most likely still is low on funds so I would not expect them to be throwing around ammo even though they should highly promote practicing. If the officers have to buy their own practice ammo yeah you can get .45acp cheaper most places.

Last edited by dkf; 11-14-2012 at 10:46..
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:19   #23
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[...] And come on. They are "testing" a G21 45acp? LIke the 21 or the 45acp has not been proven over an over already.
You make a very fair point, but I'm sure lawyers and politicians require the testing.
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Old 11-14-2012, 15:29   #24
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No.

Nothing toward the PSP in particular. I just cant stand that everytime some PD talks about switching calibers everyone wants to jump on the band wagon. LIke the PD is the final word on caliber. It's usually just because they got a new captain or cheif and they need to justify their job.

And come on. They are "testing" a G21 45acp? LIke the 21 or the 45acp has not been proven over an over already.
It is not only about testing the weapon for function, reliability, etc. It is important for large police agencies to test the prospective weapons with the people who will be issued same weapons. For example, the strong shooters, the weak shooters, the males with large hands, the females with small hands, patrol units, investigative units, etc. The weapon has to be a "fit" for the people using it. Not to test the weapons in this manner would be irresponsible.
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Old 11-14-2012, 17:19   #25
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What model Beretta were they carrying in .40?

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Old 11-14-2012, 17:35   #26
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... I will say that agencies that seek the CALEA accreditation can't have service weapons older than 4 yrs so if they update to new handguns they may as well switch.
Good thing they never look at "KF" date coded USP.

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what department uses the G21s ? or is individual officer choice ? thanks
One of the large agencies now issues a G17 but allows officers a G21 they purchase themselves.

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Old 11-14-2012, 17:41   #27
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Here in DE (pa neighbor) the state police carry 229's in 357 SIG.
I'd love to get my hands on an agency trade-in.
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Old 11-14-2012, 17:46   #28
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Massachusetts State Police have ordered 2,500 S&W M&P pistols in .45 and Vermont State Police are having theirs in .40. I know a lot of people think Glocks are ugly but I have never cared for the M&Ps.
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:18   #29
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They Beretta 96 with robar finish for a while then went to the 96 with the heavey slide in 40 cal and they were D models
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:25   #30
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The DOT guy I talked with was a gun type guy most are not . I told him about Glock talk he didnt know about it . He said the PSP had some shooting up their when they had 40 cal and the Win 180 didnt didnt work as good as they wanted . When the bad guy was in surgery the had to go in with him he said wnen those 40 were dug out they looked like you could reuse them. the 45 gap has been better . I think their gap guns are maybe about 6 to 8 years old
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Old 11-14-2012, 18:41   #31
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The DOT guy I talked with was a gun type guy most are not . I told him about Glock talk he didnt know about it . He said the PSP had some shooting up their when they had 40 cal and the Win 180 didnt didnt work as good as they wanted . When the bad guy was in surgery the had to go in with him he said wnen those 40 were dug out they looked like you could reuse them. the 45 gap has been better . I think their gap guns are maybe about 6 to 8 years old


They changed calibers over ammunition not expanding in 1 shooting?
Sounds like an ammunition issue, not a caliber issue. They do not always expand as expected.

Last edited by JBP55; 11-14-2012 at 18:42..
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Old 11-14-2012, 20:18   #32
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What I heard is that the state police needed new guns to replace their worn out ones and for the new troopers that they were hiring. Beretta was no longer going to make the 96D. State Police were happy with the .40 S&W performance. They chose Glock and Glock offered them a better deal if they adopted the .45 GAP. That's just what I heard, who knows if it's true or not.
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Old 11-15-2012, 15:16   #33
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Blah, blah, blah, who gives a crap what the PA state police are doing
I do.
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Old 11-15-2012, 19:00   #34
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Their was more than one shooting with this ammo and poor stoping power. And they could not get the Beretta 96 D anymore so Glock it was . I Smith gets wind they may give their MP 45 to them.
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Old 11-15-2012, 19:54   #35
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Their was more than one shooting with this ammo and poor stoping power. And they could not get the Beretta 96 D anymore so Glock it was . I Smith gets wind they may give their MP 45 to them.

The .40 works pretty well in most of the USA. Shot placement?
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:22   #36
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Their was more than one shooting with this ammo and poor stoping power. And they could not get the Beretta 96 D anymore so Glock it was . I Smith gets wind they may give their MP 45 to them.
There is negligible difference between .45gap and .45acp in ballistics, in fact several .45gap loads mimic some .45acp loads. The gap even uses the same bullets as the .45acp. There is +P in .45acp but that only slightly more velocity which does not mean much. Chances are that "failure" would have happened whether it was .45gap or .45acp.
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Old 11-15-2012, 22:54   #37
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Since Cops open carry, and can carry extra full magazines.
A Glock 21's 13 rounds would be some great firepower.
45acp's also have better stopping power than the 45 Gap, due to more room for gunpowder.
Their all good choices, 9mm, .40's, .357 Sig.
But, if I was a Cop, open carrying, I would choose a G21.
Then carry a G19, G23 or G32 off duty.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:49   #38
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jdw174.....sent you a pm.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:34   #39
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Blah, blah, blah, who gives a crap what the PA state police are doing
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I do.
I do too.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:41   #40
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Blah, blah, blah, who gives a crap what the PA state police are doing
I do. If you're just going to be a jerk, don't post in the thread. I happen to like threads like this. I personally don't enjoy how every third thread in GT these days is about atheism, abortion, gay people, or socialists and which one is ruining the country this week, but I'm not conceited enough to think every single thread on a discussion forum is going to be something I personally want to talk about.

OP: I think .45 ACP is a wiser choice than .45 GAP. I think the GAP was a pretty cool idea, but support for it makes .357 SIG and 10mm look mainstream. Logistically speaking, the .45 ACP makes a lot more sense.
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