Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-16-2012, 09:47   #41
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
The round has been around since When?, how much time do y'all need?

If you look at the SAAMI specs and chamber dimensions you may well discover that there isn't much room to get heavier bullets into the envelope. Plus the ract that twist rates in barrels to date favor the lighter bullets you are just about at the point of wildcatting it.
It is not time, it is desire. Or to put it a different way it is a causality chain.

If the military had adopted the 270 and the 30-06 was delayed 10 years. We would be talking about how the 270 was the better more developed cartridge.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:43   #42
M 7
Senior Member
 
M 7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,106
Can the .30-06 do more than the .270 Win?

As a general rule, I believe that the .30-06 is the more versatile of the two cartridges.

The .270 is a good cartridge, but because the .30-06 can fire heavier, higher sectional density bullets than the .270 (200 gr and 220 gr bullets in the '06 have a higher SD than a .270 cal. 150 gr bullet) at 2400-2600 fps), I think the '06 is the "better" cartridge of the two.
__________________
For those who CCW:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
M 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 12:14   #43
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by m 7 View Post
as a general rule, i believe that the .30-06 is the more versatile of the two cartridges.

The .270 is a good cartridge, but because the .30-06 can fire heavier, higher sectional density bullets than the .270 (200 gr and 220 gr bullets in the '06 have a higher sd than a .270 cal. 150 gr bullet) at 2400-2600 fps), i think the '06 is the "better" cartridge of the two.
agreed!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 16:46   #44
K.Kiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Shreveport, La.
Posts: 1,452
It really just comes down to what you're wanting to kill with it... Up to a certain body size it won't make a bit of difference, that's worth debating... In regard to bullet drop, it's not enough to make a flea's fart, especially if you're familiar with the ballistics.. We with some regularity kill 250lbs. hogs with .308s at 500+ yards and it doesn't shoot as flat or as hard as either of these two calibers mentioned, but it's irrelevant because we know where the bullet will be when it gets there..

When we shoot those hogs with a 28" barreled .338 edge at that distance they most typically fall down and die... When we shoot hogs at that distance with a 22" .308 with handloaded berger bullets, they typically fall down and die... None of these hogs ever argued to each other who got hit harder..
K.Kiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 21:02   #45
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Funny

I have forgotten about the 7mm Rem Magnum round. It's .284 bullet really moves.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 11:48   #46
Darkangel1846
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,744
I think the 30-06 is the most flexable round on the market today. Has been studied and used more then any other round, more options and availability then any other.
For hunting or even combat its a all around great round.

but once again you use what you like and what works for you.
My hunting days ended decades ago, after the military I lost my love of hunting anything. Now I just shoot targets...usually with 5.56 and 762X39 and several handgun cals.
__________________
Peter 5:8
"Be sober, be vigilant; Because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking who he may devour."

Last edited by Darkangel1846; 11-17-2012 at 11:51..
Darkangel1846 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 07:36   #47
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Good response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkangel1846 View Post
I think the 30-06 is the most flexable round on the market today. Has been studied and used more then any other round, more options and availability then any other.
For hunting or even combat its a all around great round.

but once again you use what you like and what works for you.
My hunting days ended decades ago, after the military I lost my love of hunting anything. Now I just shoot targets...usually with 5.56 and 762X39 and several handgun cals.
about the .30-'06.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 09:25   #48
Wil Terry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 309
OF COURSE IT CAN !!!

WAS this even a serious question ??

And so it goes...
Wil Terry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 13:02   #49
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednoved View Post
I guess it depends on the tasks. The 30-06 can handle a heavier grain bullet, and still deliver higher velocity and energy. I believe the 30-06 has a slightly flatter trajectory as well.
This is a well-thought-out summary of the .30-'06.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 09:51   #50
brisk21
Senior Member
 
brisk21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,675
Too close for it to matter.
brisk21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 13:56   #51
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
.30-'06 neck length

Is long enough to secure a 220-gr bullet, and the case capacity is big enough to drive the long bullet at 2300 FPS. This leaves the .270 Win way behind.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 19:07   #52
ADK_40GLKr
Senior Member
 
ADK_40GLKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: RFD NY Adks
Posts: 2,211
Blog Entries: 2
Surprised no one has mentioned the history of the .270. IIRC, Wasn't it developed to get higher velocity & longer range by just necking down a .30-06 case? I think case volume behind the bullet is the same, is it not? So you can "reach out and touch" smaller targets at greater distance!

I'm certainly not a ballistics authority, but I believe I read that somewhere BEFORE the Internet. (Sports Afield or the like)
__________________
There's a fundamental flaw in a system that passes laws that put an onerous burden on law-abiding citizens, but fails to prosecute the criminals who break those laws.

Last edited by ADK_40GLKr; 11-19-2012 at 19:09..
ADK_40GLKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 20:38   #53
oscarthegrouch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 176
"There ain't many problems a man can't fix, with $700 and a 30-06."
Lindy Wisdom
oscarthegrouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 12:36   #54
2bgop
Senior Member
 
2bgop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In the SEC
Posts: 6,027
I have both and hunt with both. For someone of average skill who takes shots at average ranges, they both work just fine for me.
2bgop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 13:32   #55
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
Surprised no one has mentioned the history of the .270. IIRC, Wasn't it developed to get higher velocity & longer range by just necking down a .30-06 case? I think case volume behind the bullet is the same, is it not? So you can "reach out and touch" smaller targets at greater distance!

I'm certainly not a ballistics authority, but I believe I read that somewhere BEFORE the Internet. (Sports Afield or the like)
You have to look at the marketing strategy to understand the .270, really, ballistically, it doesn't make a lot of sense. You do not gain effective "longer range" with a lower ballistic coefficient. You might gain a flatter trajectoy which translates to a slightly longer PBR but not as much as one would think. put a 130 gn bullet in a 30-06 and see what happens.

The ability to hit targets at long range is much more in the hands of the shooter and their knowledge and skill than in a realtively few FPS. But shrewed marketers would have you think otherwise.

At the time America was "30-06'ed" to the max. There was considerable interest still, in rounds like the .257 Roberts but Americans would not accept a "foriegn caliber" with things like "8mm, 7mm, 6.5mm" in the title or based on "Odd" bore diameters. "If we are going to have an odd caliber, it will be one our own making" was pretty much the sentiment.

When it comes down to it, and with the benefits of todays projectiles, the wildcat "6.5-06" is a giant leap above the .270 in versatility. But in the day "All American" "with more velocity" is what sold new guns.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 15:29   #56
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
They just hadn't adopted the term "magnum" yet...

Caliber Corner


Imma do the .277 Nabuchadnezzar although the Methuselah sounds pretty potent.

Last edited by Zombie Steve; 11-20-2012 at 15:29..
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 21:09   #57
dougader
Senior Member
 
dougader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: OryGun
Posts: 3,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I am not a fan of either round, but the 06 can handle heavier bullets w/ enough vel to take anything that walks the planet.
With 220gr solids, it has taken all the DG in Africa as well as the largest bears. I prefer a 280 & 338-06, but I am just a bit on the odd side.
I started with a 30-06 because that's what my Dad had and I inherited all of his ammo, bullets, powder, etc. If I started from scratch, I'd probably go with the 280 Rem for deer and antelope, 338-06 for elk, bear, moose.

As it stands, I have the 30-06 and 338-06.
__________________
Doug

"In St. Louis, armed Homeland Security agents monitored Tea Party members protesting the IRS. Good idea. When people think their government is out to get them, the best response is to send the government out to get them." -Fred Thompson
dougader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 21:16   #58
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,581
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
Surprised no one has mentioned the history of the .270. IIRC, Wasn't it developed to get higher velocity & longer range by just necking down a .30-06 case? I think case volume behind the bullet is the same, is it not? So you can "reach out and touch" smaller targets at greater distance!

I'm certainly not a ballistics authority, but I believe I read that somewhere BEFORE the Internet. (Sports Afield or the like)
From Wiki

"While it is true that a .270 Winchester case can be formed from a 30-06 Springfield case, the case length of a 30-06 is 2.494 inches (63.3 mm) while the case length of a .270 is 2.540 inches (64.5 mm), the same as a .30-03 Springfield. It is recommended that .270 Winchester brass be formed from .35 Whelen or .280 Remington cases.[11]"

.270 - "Case capacity 67 gr H2O (4.355 cm³)"
30-06 - "Case capacity 68 gr H2O (4.42 cm³)"

So sounds like the extra length on the .270 is neck.

A bigger diameter bullet gives more area for the burning powder to "push" against the bullet and more room in the bore to burn. For example a .338-06 can push a .338 220gr bullet with more "authority" than a 30-06 can push a .30 220gr bullet.

Last edited by dkf; 11-20-2012 at 21:20..
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 21:22   #59
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
From Wiki

"While it is true that a .270 Winchester case can be formed from a 30-06 Springfield case, the case length of a 30-06 is 2.494 inches (63.3 mm) while the case length of a .270 is 2.540 inches (64.5 mm), the same as a .30-03 Springfield. It is recommended that .270 Winchester brass be formed from .35 Whelen or .280 Remington cases.[11]"

A bigger diameter bullet gives more area for the burning powder to "push" the bullet and more room in the bore to burn. For example a .338-06 can push a .338 220gr bullet with more "authority" than a 30-06 can push a .30 220gr bullet.
This is an important, and often overlooked point.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 22:40   #60
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
They just hadn't adopted the term "magnum" yet...

Caliber Corner


Imma do the .277 Nabuchadnezzar although the Methuselah sounds pretty potent.
Reminds me of the story of a wildcat cartridge maker. He had come up the ultimate varmint cartridge. It was suppose to have an extremely flat trajectory and because of the speed it would not have to worry about wind drift as much.

He had take a 50BMG cartridge and necked it down to .45. Then he took that cartridge and necked it down to .40. At this point he had to thin the neck because the brass was getting too thick. Then he took the case and necked it down to .308. Then he necked it down to .264. Again he had to thin the neck. He was finally able to neck it down to .224.

He then put a gun together with with a barrel chambered in his special round.

His test loads were with with the same powder as normally loaded in a 50BMG.

He said that he was only having one issue with the ultimate varmint cartridge. It was vaporizing the bullet before it reached the end of the barrel.

__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:22.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,158
350 Members
808 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31