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Old 11-28-2012, 20:17   #1
wilhelm51
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Quality Ammo

I posed a question in another thread relative to quality ammo and Danny's response was:
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Originally Posted by DannyR View Post
In 115-gr, in the following order:

S&B
Lawman
Winchester USA (Not WinClean)
Rather than highjacking that thread let me ask a series of new questions.

Certainly when I have bought ammunition, I have looked to brand names, availability and cost. Federal Champion seemed to fit that bill pretty well. Federal American Eagle also meets that criteria but my experience has been that is a dirty load. I've also felt that I should be consistent with the load that I shot and that once I started shooting brand "X" I should stick with it.

I am pretty new to this and probably need to work on the fundamentals of shooting before becoming bogged down in the nuances of what is better 115 gr or 127 gr (or 147 for that matter) or should I shoot ammo that has a velocity of 1150 fps vs. 1200 fps. At this point answers to those questions will not help my shooting.

So fine tuning will come later but now where is a good point to start relative to ammo? How should I choose and what is the criteria I should use?

And Danny thanks for your earlier response.

wilhelm
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Old 11-28-2012, 20:59   #2
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I shoot Winchester white box ammo most of the time without an issue.
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Old 11-28-2012, 21:17   #3
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If I buy it or recommend it, Winchester USA brand 115 grain FMJRN, either in 50 boxes or 100 round value packs. If functions cleanly and perfectly in any 9mm that will work with anything. If it doesn't work, its the gun.

If I reload it:

Brass = mixed full length resized 9mm, no military because the crimps aren't worth the bother.
Primers = any CCI, WW, or Federal small pistol primer
Bullets = usually MidwayUSA 115 or 124 grain FMJRN Remington Bulk. That means bulk packed in 1000 or 2000 at a time. Whatever REAL jacketed FMJ is cheapest at the moment. Not the plated crap.
Powder = 4.1 grains Bullseye Pistol Powder. Not max, but enough to function any 9mm with either weight bullet. Including brand new Gen4 M19 Glocks.
COAL = 1.13"

Avoid: Remington ValuePaks with 115 or 124 FMJ bullets. They are so lightly loaded I used to watch my M34 fire, the case would rise into the sight picture, stop, and roll over the right side of the ejection port and fall on my foot. NEVER once did they fail to function a Glock of any model, but they were so weak it was un-nerving to watch the slide move that slow. The Rem cases are the best made and last forever loading. Its just the loaded ammo is weak.

Avoid: foreign steel crap. Buy American.

Last edited by LampShadeActual; 11-28-2012 at 21:21..
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Old 11-28-2012, 21:36   #4
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In all honesty until you get to high end( federal gold medal match comes to mind- which costs more than 2 boxes of regular bargain blasting ammo you get at wal Mart) I have not found a significant difference between brands. Every single round I tested a few years ago( multiple brands bullet weights etc) would all shoot 3 inch or less groups at 25 yards out of my glock 19.
Indeed some guns may show a preference in bullet weight brand etc, but most of the time variances in the shooter will far outweigh any ammo issues
What I am saying is 98% of the time , in 98% of the guns the performance differences between different types of ammo is what we call in medical research of statistically significant
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Old 11-28-2012, 21:48   #5
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Although I can buy whatever I want at good prices (perk of the job), I still get whatever is the cheapest brass cased FMJ in 124gr, which most accurately mimicks my preferred SD load (Speer 124gr +P).

Lately that has been Aguila. While I prefer Winchester NATO, it has been about $50 more per case lately.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:19   #6
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I can some times find this http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/lawman.aspx
at my local Wally World for the same cost as the Fedearal,WWB or Remington green and yellow box fodder.
It is some of the cleanest I have found out of the box.
You may also check here for some of the best costs especially if purchased in bulk.

http://ammoseek.com/?gun=handgun&cal...man&sortby=cpr

http://ammoseek.com/

One of the best sites since sliced bread for finding the best prices on ammunition. I entered 9 mm, CCI/Speer,124 gr target practice and this was the result for the lowest cost.


http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0002053616

That is even lower cost than my local Wally World. SJ 40
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:35   #7
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American Eagle, although dirty, is excellent ammo and I highly recommend it. I would avoid using Federal Champion 115-gr and PMC 115-gr in a brand new pistol. My first choice is Speer Lawman in 115-gr. It is readily available. Winchester USA 100 round value paks from Walmart is an excellent choice.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:44   #8
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Here is the results for the 115 gr. Danny mentioned.


http://ammoseek.com/?gun=handgun&cal...man&sortby=cpr

and the lowest cost supplier for 115 gr. Speer Lawman.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...sku=0002053615

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Old 11-29-2012, 08:04   #9
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Two good choices are American Eagle and Lawman.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:07   #10
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The lightest grain weights usually cycle the action with the least energy, on top of that most of them have as little gunpowder as possible for that load to make them cheaper.

Your best bet is to pick a medium to heavy grain, compare the manufacturer advertised muzzle velocities, and pick the one that's highest within SAAMI specs.

American Eagle and Speer Lawman are usually hotter, though a few of their loads are on the weak side. For .40 all loads of both brands will work fine in a Glock.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:25   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyR View Post
American Eagle, although dirty, is excellent ammo and I highly recommend it. I would avoid using Federal Champion 115-gr and PMC 115-gr in a brand new pistol. My first choice is Speer Lawman in 115-gr. It is readily available. Winchester USA 100 round value paks from Walmart is an excellent choice.
Just curious, but I have a brand new G23 and have only shot Federal Champion 40 S&W 180gr. through it (around 600 rounds); however, why would you avoid using it through a new gun? Does this also apply to 40 S&W??
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:43   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeneggsandsam View Post
Just curious, but I have a brand new G23 and have only shot Federal Champion 40 S&W 180gr. through it (around 600 rounds); however, why would you avoid using it through a new gun? Does this also apply to 40 S&W??
I'm not Danny but from my use, choreographing of it,less velocity = less pressure.
Not quite the same pressures,velocity as most factory self defense/duty loads. Which if used with a gun should assure that their are no malfunctions due to lesser quality ammunition,aka watered down,weak.This would apply to all ammunition no matter the caliber. SJ 40

Last edited by SJ 40; 11-29-2012 at 09:46.. Reason: ETA
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Old 11-29-2012, 13:59   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greeneggsandsam View Post
Just curious, but I have a brand new G23 and have only shot Federal Champion 40 S&W 180gr. through it (around 600 rounds); however, why would you avoid using it through a new gun? Does this also apply to 40 S&W??

I avoid Federal Champion in 9mm. I had two boxes of Federal Champion .40 and it ejected strong and had some umph to it. I will buy more of the .40 but not 9mm unless that is all there is.
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Old 11-29-2012, 14:05   #14
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I shoot Winchester white box ammo most of the time without an issue.
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Old 11-29-2012, 17:14   #15
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I prefer Lawman or Winchester NATO but I will shoot WWB or Federal. I've had decent performance from Blazer Brass too.
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Old 11-29-2012, 17:59   #16
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I prefer 124gr Lawman but recently purchased 1k rounds of Independence 115gr and was very surprised how clean it is and 0 issues
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Old 11-29-2012, 18:34   #17
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When I was new to shooting I shot everything.. Now days I shoot mainly Speer Lawman for practice.
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Old 11-29-2012, 21:51   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilhelm51 View Post
...I've also felt that I should be consistent with the load that I shot and that once I started shooting brand "X" I should stick with it.

...where is a good point to start relative to ammo? How should I choose and what is the criteria I should use?

wilhelm
You shoot GSSF and may shoot more of those matches. Do you now or do you plan to in the future, shoot other competitive disciplines?

In other words, do you practice with a purpose? Is your goal to generally plink and punch holes in paper, or are your ultimate goals to shoot more and different competitions? I practice with the exact same ammo I shoot at matches and always have, standardizing as you've suggested that you'd like to do.

Before I began reloading I standardized on Blazer (aluminum) 124gr FMJ - it's not quite as hot as AE 124 FMJ, and a lot cheaper. No problems running in any of my many 9mil Glocks.

Competitors however generally look for something with a heavier bullet (147) and a lower PF [velocity X bullet weight / 1000] of ~130 for less felt recoil and faster follow-up shots. If you're a competitor, or leaning that way, you may search for something like that. I don't have a specific 'normal' factory recommendation for that type of ammo other than Atlanta Arms and Ammo. Any 147s will be more pricey than the lighter bullets, AA&A is likely higher still.
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Old 11-29-2012, 23:42   #19
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Why would you buy Federal Brown Box or Winchester White Box from Walmart if you can get Speer Lawman or S&B for the same price on SGammo?
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:22   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post
I shoot Winchester white box ammo most of the time without an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyparson View Post
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:37   #21
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So far, my G26 has had something like 3000 rounds through it. About 200 have been Federal HST 147grn. The rest has been Federal Champion 115grn. Seriously, it's been ALL Fed. Champ.

Zero malfunctions. I have started using Speer Lawman though.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:37   #22
wilhelm51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
You shoot GSSF and may shoot more of those matches. Do you now or do you plan to in the future, shoot other competitive disciplines?

In other words, do you practice with a purpose?
I don't shoot other disciplines but want to take a closer look at what is available in my area. I really like the GSSF format and not certain I would enjoy something more run and gun.

As far as practice I try to get to an indoor range a couple times a month but don't really practice with a purpose. Want to find outdoor range but right now cost or distance are limiting factors.

Thank you and everyone else for your answers. That was the information I was looking for.

wilhelm




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Old 11-30-2012, 06:02   #23
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I shoot American Eagle 155gr rated at 1160 fps.

It is close to my SD load Remington Golden Saber 165gr at 1150 fps.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:03   #24
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I use Winchester White Box (115gr FMJRN) with no issues.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:27   #25
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I have mostly been using Blazer Brass 124gr. I have had good results as far as accuracy, reliability, and cleanliness.
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