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Old 09-10-2013, 13:46   #61
Cycletroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
Cycle, this last go around with the heavy 165, 180, and 200gr loads I used the stock Gen4 RSA. While I do have a 22lb spring for the 23 (using gen3 adapter), it doesn't really seem to me to offer any more resistance which is why I wanted to try the Gen4 recoil assembly.

I had a G32 barrel for the 23 for years and can attest to how well they are supported, the best support I've seen in a factory Glock barrel for sure. But you know, I've ran some rather stout loads through the stock Gen4 G23 barrel too with no ill effects. It's not as well supported as the KKM barrel is, but it really isn't bad either. For what it's worth, even in the stock barrel, depending on powder used and the bullet, I can get roughly within 50 fps of the KKM barrel. I don't use loads quite as warm in the stock barrel, but it's still able to pump out some good numbers, from a 4" barrel anyways.

As for reliability, the KKM barrel has been very reliable as a whole. I did have that bobble the other day, but I think that was mainly due to either it didn't like the OAL of the load I had or it could have been because I was using an OLD 10rd mag I've had for over a decade with the original OLD follower in it..plus the spring in that mag have never been changed either, so a somewhat weak magazine spring coupled with the higher slide speed the warmer loads dish out could have been the reason too. I almost lean that way because my KKM G23 will eat 170gr SWC hardcasts like candy and ask for more, a profile that will quickly jam on you if your barrel doesn't like it.

The 357 Sig is a good cartridge no doubt about it, I just typically prefer the ability to have a bigger, heavier bullet especially out in the woods. Those warmer 180gr and 200gr loads are at or over 600 ft-lbs.

SD, thanks for the answer. All of my hot .40 workups had been in a Gen4 G22 with 20-24#spring. Haven't dialed loads for the 23 yet. It may be my imagination but it almost seems like my Gen4 G23 has a better supported chamber than my early Gen4 G22.
Don't count out heavies in the Sig: Hornady .357 XTP's for revolver work great in most Glock chambers. I've loaded some impressive numbers with 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr XTP's. They are designed for higher .357 magnum velocities and so hold up to sig numbers much better than 9mm bullets; also they have a canneleure in exactly the right place to prevent setback.
I load them like mini-rifle cases, just bump the shoulder enough to headspace on after resizing the body with a .40 S&W die. the 158gr XTP @~1300 is a highly effective woods load.
I also load a hardcast 187gr WFN in the Sig which plows through anything like a lazer and has a .27 me plat.
PM me if you want some data for workups.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:34   #62
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Originally Posted by Cycletroll View Post
SD, thanks for the answer. All of my hot .40 workups had been in a Gen4 G22 with 20-24#spring. Haven't dialed loads for the 23 yet. It may be my imagination but it almost seems like my Gen4 G23 has a better supported chamber than my early Gen4 G22.
Don't count out heavies in the Sig: Hornady .357 XTP's for revolver work great in most Glock chambers. I've loaded some impressive numbers with 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr XTP's. They are designed for higher .357 magnum velocities and so hold up to sig numbers much better than 9mm bullets; also they have a canneleure in exactly the right place to prevent setback.
I load them like mini-rifle cases, just bump the shoulder enough to headspace on after resizing the body with a .40 S&W die. the 158gr XTP @~1300 is a highly effective woods load.
I also load a hardcast 187gr WFN in the Sig which plows through anything like a lazer and has a .27 me plat.
PM me if you want some data for workups.

It's good to see you post up some heavy bullet ideas with the 357 Sig, it's something I never got to mess around with because I never did get into reloading for the 357 Sig...although in looking back I think it's something I should have done! I like the sound of that 158gr XTP at 1300 fps, heck even with a good dose of H110 I had a hard time getting much more than 1350 fps out of a 6" GP100 I used to have, although I only had the 158gr Gold Dot/Deep Curl and not the XTP. For whatever reason I could get the the 158gr hardcasts zipping out fast, but not the 158gr jacketed.

It sounds to me like that 357 Sig would serve you pretty well especially with those heavy bullets. I bet that 187gr hardcast is a long ole bullet, but I can also imagine it will penetrate like the dickens too! Heck that 158gr XTP sounds impressive enough, and I know that will cut deep. Had I not sold my G32 barrel and all my 357 Mag bullets I'd be set up...oh well.
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Old 09-11-2013, 13:19   #63
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Originally Posted by Cycletroll View Post
SD, thanks for the answer. All of my hot .40 workups had been in a Gen4 G22 with 20-24#spring. Haven't dialed loads for the 23 yet. It may be my imagination but it almost seems like my Gen4 G23 has a better supported chamber than my early Gen4 G22.
Don't count out heavies in the Sig: Hornady .357 XTP's for revolver work great in most Glock chambers. I've loaded some impressive numbers with 140gr, 158gr, and 180gr XTP's. They are designed for higher .357 magnum velocities and so hold up to sig numbers much better than 9mm bullets; also they have a canneleure in exactly the right place to prevent setback.
I load them like mini-rifle cases, just bump the shoulder enough to headspace on after resizing the body with a .40 S&W die. the 158gr XTP @~1300 is a highly effective woods load.
I also load a hardcast 187gr WFN in the Sig which plows through anything like a lazer and has a .27 me plat.
PM me if you want some data for workups.

I have had that 187gr LBT mold for over 20 years, its .720'' long and my normal load in a GP100 6'' is 1450 to 1500fps and
the cases extract easy. It will shoot 3'' at 100 yds and will hold accuracy at ranges that if I told you how far you would call BS. My mold has 2 crimp groves for longer cylinders,
gp100 and the sp101 at 1.635 oal and the Rug. BH at 1.675 oal.

The 6.5'' BHs will shoot less than 6'' at 200yds, I think I could
do at least that good with the 6'' gp 100s. I have many 357
mags, from 2.25'' to 20''.

How fast have you shot it out of the 357sig.
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Old 09-11-2013, 13:24   #64
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There is only .373 and .320 seated in the case, less than much lighter bullets,
that's why you can get that speed.

These loads will not fit in some guns.
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Old 09-11-2013, 14:10   #65
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How much difference is there between the 158 XTP @ ~1300 in a .357 sig and a 155 XTP @ ~1250 in a .40 s&w ?

I currently load 155 XTPs in .40 and have thought about getting a .357 sig barrel and start playing with that round, but looking at the various reloading data there doesn't seem to be that much of a performance difference.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:51   #66
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I don't know what barrel length was used to get a 158gr XTP @ 1300 fps, but either way that's a smokin' load. A 155gr .40 @ 1250 is 3-4" barrel stuff and will do close to 1500 fps, some over 1500, from a 6" with a warm load.

But of the two the 158gr XTP would penetrate deeper, while the 155gr .40 would expand larger. Both would be very effective no doubt.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:29   #67
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Originally Posted by happie2shoot View Post
I have had that 187gr LBT mold for over 20 years, its .720'' long and my normal load in a GP100 6'' is 1450 to 1500fps and
the cases extract easy. It will shoot 3'' at 100 yds and will hold accuracy at ranges that if I told you how far you would call BS. My mold has 2 crimp groves for longer cylinders,
gp100 and the sp101 at 1.635 oal and the Rug. BH at 1.675 oal.

The 6.5'' BHs will shoot less than 6'' at 200yds, I think I could
do at least that good with the 6'' gp 100s. I have many 357
mags, from 2.25'' to 20''.

How fast have you shot it out of the 357sig.
1200fps out of a 4.5" Glock 31 doesn't show any pressure but is about as much slide velocity as a 24# recoil spring can handle and I think a lot of these would pound the frame pretty good after awhile. But in limited quantities it is a nice penetration load.
The 180XTP at 1180 is really nice and shoots ~1" groups at 30 yards out of gun; moderate expansion (.58-.60)and tons of penetration.
Doesn't come close to what a longer barreled Ruger will do but much lighter, and much more capacity and plenty of horsepower for most woods needs.
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Old 09-12-2013, 22:05   #68
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1200fps out of a 4.5" Glock 31 doesn't show any pressure but is about as much slide velocity as a 24# recoil spring can handle and I think a lot of these would pound the frame pretty good after awhile. But in limited quantities it is a nice penetration load.
The 180XTP at 1180 is really nice and shoots ~1" groups at 30 yards out of gun; moderate expansion (.58-.60)and tons of penetration.
Doesn't come close to what a longer barreled Ruger will do but much lighter, and much more capacity and plenty of horsepower for most woods needs.
How long is your oal, is your mold made by LBT?

I like your loads and when I get time I will try some of my cast for the sig. I have a LW barrel some place around here.
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Old 09-21-2013, 16:26   #69
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I got some more data today. Nice day out so I figured why not.

Gen4 Glock 20 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel

Factory 180gr Gold Dot avg a whopping 1,063 fps. Very little gain with these using a longer barrel. If memory serves me correct, these run a tad over 1,000 fps from the stock Gen4 G23. Because of such little increase, I'm thinking Speer uses a fairly fast burning powder, as those don't react as much to longer barrels.

Two handloads, both using 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers:

6" KKM

180gr Hornady XTP, 9.0gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,339 fps avg (19 fps ES)

200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,221 fps (20 fps ES)

These two shot well, brass looked fine. Compared to the 4" KKM in my Gen4 G23, I got an increase of almost 150 fps with the 180gr XTP, but only roughly 70 fps with the 200gr. I figured the 200gr would react less, but I figured it would go more than 70 fps, but it's still good for a .40!

Long loaded handload using 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers:

6" KKM

180gr Hornady XTP, 10.5gr 800x @ 1.250": 1,454 fps avg (14 fps ES)

This is a load I worked up for the 10mm, but wanted to see what the same data would do in a long loaded .40, and now I know. I got about 1,365 from this load out of the stock G20, so I got an increase of about 90 fps using the 6" KKM .40 barrel. The barrel has a long throat that will allow it to chamber and fire 10mm-length .40 S&W.
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Old 11-02-2013, 23:54   #70
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Just a few more, same exact setup. Same 1x Federal brass and CCI SP primers.

Shot through Chrony F-1 tripod mounted and leveled up nice.

Glock 23 Gen4, stock RSA unit and a KKM 4" barrel.

165gr Gold Dot, 9.7gr 800x @ 1.130": 1,297 fps (616 ft-lbs)

200gr WFNGC, 8.0gr 800x @ 1.100": 1,152 fps (589 ft-lbs)

I shorted the OAL of the 200gr WFNGC because yesterday I got a couple of stovepipes loaded to 1.125". It might have been an isolated instance but I shorted them up and they ran smoothly today.

Brass from KKM barrel looked great. I did also run a few experimental 135gr and 155gr loads with 800x, but they were disasters...terribly inconsistent with both of them giving nasty 80-100fps extreme spreads. Oh well, if I can get them more consistent I'll post those up.
Two more moulds on the way,

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...6prtb8frdt3fo7

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...6prtb8frdt3fo7

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:47   #71
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Dang Happie that 200gr WFN mould looks very nice! Good sized meplat and it's got a short OAL for more powder room. If I made my own I would get that in a heartbeat!
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Old 11-09-2013, 17:17   #72
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I have some .40 data, although it's not normal .40 data. It's .40 for sure, but loaded with 10mm data. This is from the G20 Gen4 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel.

Used 1x Winchester .40 S&W brass and CCI SP primers.

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 (54 fps ES)

This one is somewhere in between, longer than a .40 but shorter than a 10mm:

180gr XTP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.200": 1,362 fps (31 fps ES)

For those seeking the ultimate powerhouse load:

200gr WFN, 1.5gr HP38 @ 1.025": 297 fps (G23 4" KKM). Tough to hold onto that one....ha! No it was part of working up a lapping load, but settled on 2.2gr HP38 which averaged 566 fps.
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Old 11-09-2013, 21:58   #73
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I have some .40 data, although it's not normal .40 data. It's .40 for sure, but loaded with 10mm data. This is from the G20 Gen4 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel.

Used 1x Winchester .40 S&W brass and CCI SP primers.

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 (54 fps ES)

This one is somewhere in between, longer than a .40 but shorter than a 10mm:


180gr XTP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.200": 1,362 fps (31 fps ES)

For those seeking the ultimate powerhouse load:

200gr WFN, 1.5gr HP38 @ 1.025": 297 fps (G23 4" KKM). Tough to hold onto that one....ha! No it was part of working up a lapping load, but settled on 2.2gr HP38 which averaged 566 fps.
This is good info., thanks.
I just cast some 200wfn's up today
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Old 11-09-2013, 22:38   #74
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11.0 grains of Bluedot under 180grn bullet. 10mm.
I shoot that same load A LOT. I use a lead cast and tumble lubed bullet from a Lee mold.

It's pretty stout but not at the top of the chart and sure not over pressure.

Shoot the standard G20SF standard barrel.

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Old 12-16-2013, 11:45   #75
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OAL 1.125", 180gr Xtreme bullets, once fired brass, CCI primers and either 5.8gr of WSF for a warmer load or 4.2gr of Titegroup for a soft shooting plinking load.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:07   #76
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Those are good loads you listed Fire Medic!
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Old 12-22-2013, 17:32   #77
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Those are good loads you listed Fire Medic!
Thanks brother. Have 8# of Longshot sitting here waiting for something as well. We will see not sure if I'm gonna get a 10mm or not again yet. Really liking IDPA so i'm gonna want a dedicated game gun.
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Old 12-24-2013, 22:57   #78
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I have some .40 data, although it's not normal .40 data. It's .40 for sure, but loaded with 10mm data. This is from the G20 Gen4 with 6" KKM .40 S&W barrel.

Used 1x Winchester .40 S&W brass and CCI SP primers.

200gr XTP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,302 fps (28 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 8.8gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,294 fps (25 fps ES)

200gr XTP, 9.0gr Longshot @ 1.250": 1,338 (54 fps ES)

This one is somewhere in between, longer than a .40 but shorter than a 10mm:

180gr XTP, 9.2gr Longshot @ 1.200": 1,362 fps (31 fps ES)

For those seeking the ultimate powerhouse load:

200gr WFN, 1.5gr HP38 @ 1.025": 297 fps (G23 4" KKM). Tough to hold onto that one....ha! No it was part of working up a lapping load, but settled on 2.2gr HP38 which averaged 566 fps.
How did your lapping go, how many rds. and how far did
it extend yor throat.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:34   #79
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How did your lapping go, how many rds. and how far did
it extend yor throat.
Happie, I have yet to firelap the 6" KKM .40 barrel, but I did do my others (5" KKM G21 bbl, KKM 4.6" G20 barrel and KKM 4" G23 barrel) and it all went well. I haven't got to shoot all of them too much since it's happened, but I think the G23 groups got a little tighter for sure.

I do go to shoot the KKM 21 barrel afterwards but didn't pick a good day as it was very windy out, but it shot well too, certainly didn't lose any accuracy and I haven't shot the KKM G20 barrel any yet after fire lapping it.

The process went well and as far as the throats go, I didn't notice any changes. I only ran about 30 lapping rounds through each, and the throat on the KKM G23 was already super deep to begin with, the KKM G20 I haven't checked, but prior to lapping it would accept 200gr WFNGC bullets all the way out to 1.285" and probably longer, but I never tried since I figured 1.285" may be too long for the magazine.

The KKM G21 barrel didn't really change, I loaded up some .45 Super with the more blunt 255gr hardcasts and was still limited to using the same OAL of ~1.170". I'd like it to be deeper, but I'd probably be better off sending it somewhere to be cut deeper, but I can't complain about it since it's still delivering good performance (~1300 fps) even with that short of an OAL.
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Old 12-26-2013, 15:38   #80
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Thanks for the reply, I know we like our bullets to jump as little as
possible but some of my revolvers shoot like rifles and they jump
a lot.

The lapping should help with the leadding.

I have many barrels to lap but I am getting lazy in my old age.
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