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Old 11-18-2012, 18:30   #401
CaptCave
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An electrician is just a plumber that blew his brains out.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:12   #402
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
And like I said, I'm talking about construction skilled labor unions. I said I can't speak for ever union, nor do I agree with every one.
If you wanted to be an ibew electrician, that's what would have been required of you.
I bust my ass every single day, and every guy who has worked with or for me has largely done the same, its pisses me off when everyone assumes we are slackers, when I know what I do every day.
Does it piss you off when people insist all gun owners will go nuts and either kill someone, want to kill someone, or will shoot themselves by accident because of a few bad people? It does me too, and in here its becoming that same situation.
So far, you haven't described any conditions that are not currently adhered to by non-union shops. I'm a mechanic by trade, working road service predominantly, and every place I've worked at has had the same high standards you're describing. Pay was similar, too, often better than what the union shops paid.

I'm just not seeing an advantage.
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Old 11-18-2012, 21:14   #403
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The purpose of A business is to make money. The incentive therefore is to keep good employee's because they add value to the company. I have always worked at will. It has served me well because my employer quickly moves me up because I add value to the company. However there is another class of employees at work that require much effort to fire. Some of them are low performing but it's too difficult to get rid of them so they stay in the company. This benefits no one. If you are not right for the position and then you should want someone to tell you so you can leave and go somewhere where you are a better fit. I speak from experience. I was at a great company but did not do well. I was not a good fit. I was not Atwill at that time. They wanted to put me on a performance plan. I simply resigned. I took the job telling them that if ever I did not meet expectations to simply say so and I would resign. I left the company went to another employer and have excelled and done very well. It is really important for a person to find good fit. Hey company spends a lot of money in order to train employee. Most companies that I know of at least have yearly evaluations and assist employees who are having trouble at work in order to fit in.
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Old 11-18-2012, 23:55   #404
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Originally Posted by Arquebus12 View Post
So far, you haven't described any conditions that are not currently adhered to by non-union shops. I'm a mechanic by trade, working road service predominantly, and every place I've worked at has had the same high standards you're describing. Pay was similar, too, often better than what the union shops paid.

I'm just not seeing an advantage.
OK, I'm gonna stick with electrical since its what I know.
Within the first month of me being an electrician, still in highschool, I was
A-clueless and dumb
B-left alone on jobs for days at times
C-allowed to work in hot panels and gear- less than a month experience.
Me being left to do jobs by myself, trying to teach myself, not really knowing what I was doing right or wrong. Contractor taking advantage of cheap labor at the customers expense and my safety. Our apprentices can't be left on a job alone until 5th year.
There's certain things you don't know yet, especially without school, even if you're super careful - example, test a live neutral with any tester it will show as dead, now unhook or open that neutral and current loses its return path, now if you become the path your in trouble. Even though it just tested as dead.
There's no standard of when to let them do hot work
Our apprentices don't work on anything hot until 5th year, even then they have to be with a journeyman.
While I was non-union, one thing that was done A LOT, was there would be one guy who had a little experience, then 10+ 'helpers'. They couldn't even be called apprentices because they had never had any training.
We maintain at least a 3:1 journeyman to apprentice ratio. Again, a customer should not have their electrical work done by a 'helper'.
Non-union I had never even seen a blast suit, let alone used one when I worked on any high current gear.
If we do any 480 gear we wear the suit.
We've all done 5 years school, IF they did any school they did the 4 year state minimum
We offer continuing Ed and certifications for FREE even after school
States that require a journeyman licence see above 90% first time pass rate for apprentices out of our program, less than 40% otherwise.
I worked Saturdays for straight time. It was expected I use my vehicle for company material, stay late without pay, asked not to cash a check for 2 weeks, had to race to the bank cause only the first few checks would clear, asked to hack something in cause they couldn't get the right stuff, or just didn't want to spend the extra time to do it RIGHT. Who does this hurt?
Sorry, none of that flys here, and our contractors just know not to even try it, and they dont.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:10   #405
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
OK, I'm gonna stick with electrical since its what I know.
Within the first month of me being an electrician, still in highschool, I was
A-clueless and dumb
B-left alone on jobs for days at times
C-allowed to work in hot panels and gear- less than a month experience.
Me being left to do jobs by myself, trying to teach myself, not really knowing what I was doing right or wrong. Contractor taking advantage of cheap labor at the customers expense and my safety. Our apprentices can't be left on a job alone until 5th year.
There's certain things you don't know yet, especially without school, even if you're super careful - example, test a live neutral with any tester it will show as dead, now unhook or open that neutral and current loses its return path, now if you become the path your in trouble. Even though it just tested as dead.
There's no standard of when to let them do hot work
Our apprentices don't work on anything hot until 5th year, even then they have to be with a journeyman.
While I was non-union, one thing that was done A LOT, was there would be one guy who had a little experience, then 10+ 'helpers'. They couldn't even be called apprentices because they had never had any training.
We maintain at least a 3:1 journeyman to apprentice ratio. Again, a customer should not have their electrical work done by a 'helper'.
Non-union I had never even seen a blast suit, let alone used one when I worked on any high current gear.
If we do any 480 gear we wear the suit.
We've all done 5 years school, IF they did any school they did the 4 year state minimum
We offer continuing Ed and certifications for FREE even after school
States that require a journeyman licence see above 90% first time pass rate for apprentices out of our program, less than 40% otherwise.
I worked Saturdays for straight time. It was expected I use my vehicle for company material, stay late without pay, asked not to cash a check for 2 weeks, had to race to the bank cause only the first few checks would clear, asked to hack something in cause they couldn't get the right stuff, or just didn't want to spend the extra time to do it RIGHT. Who does this hurt?
Sorry, none of that flys here, and our contractors just know not to even try it, and they dont.
Some things need to be taught, and not picked up on the fly.

Sounds like you should have chosen to get some training.

I'd also highly recommend working for less shady people, but it's hard to come up with sympathy for the picture you are painting of non-union work, as you choose to place yourself in that position. It's as simple as finding someone else to work for.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:01   #406
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Originally Posted by droidfire View Post
Some things need to be taught, and not picked up on the fly.

Sounds like you should have chosen to get some training.

I'd also highly recommend working for less shady people, but it's hard to come up with sympathy for the picture you are painting of non-union work, as you choose to place yourself in that position. It's as simple as finding someone else to work for.
Your talking as if I didn't. That's EXACTLY what I did and decided to get training. It happened to be ibew apprenticeship.
I worked for two different non-union employees, both fairly large. One was a little worse than the other.
I swear this is true- when I told one of the guys I was working with(he was older, could consider him my mechanic at the time) that I had taken the test to get into the union-he told me it would be the worst mistake I could make in my life. I did it anyway. 10 years later I see him when he had just got hired for the company I was working for(I was now union). I could tell he remembered what he told me, he seemed very uncomfortable, probably hoping I didn't bring this up around the other guys and him being new. I didn't cause I'm not that kind of person, and yes there are some union diehards that would have torn him up like rabid animals.
One of the only good jobs I remember being on non-union was ran by probably one of the smartest electricians I've ever worked with, one of the only few who actually tried to teach guys on the job and lead by example. I ran into him years back who is now a union electrician, which I though was awesome.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:20   #407
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
And like I said, I'm talking about construction skilled labor unions. I said I can't speak for ever union, nor do I agree with every one.
If you wanted to be an ibew electrician, that's what would have been required of you.
I bust my ass every single day, and every guy who has worked with or for me has largely done the same, its pisses me off when everyone assumes we are slackers, when I know what I do every day.
Congratulations on you and your coworkers being in the vast minority of union workers that don't abuse the union "priveledges" they have. This is not the experience that most of us have had when dealing with union workers. Here is another example for you. This other guy who is a good friend of mine is a member of the CWA for a large telecommunications company. He would stop by my house in the middle of the day to have a beer or 3 and shoot the crap. Sometimes depending on where he was dispatched, he would come by multiple times in a day. Each visit was between 15 minutes and an hour depending. Good guy, but definitely took total advantage of his union affiliation to the companies disadvantage.
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Does it piss you off when people insist all gun owners will go nuts and either kill someone, want to kill someone, or will shoot themselves by accident because of a few bad people? It does me too, and in here its becoming that same situation.
No it doesn't bother me at all, and it is apples to oranges. Most people with that misconception about guns do not personally have real world experience with the topic. They are basing their beliefs on stories propagated by the media where it is always a lunatic with a gun commiting an unspeakable crime where the information is commonly twisted to put the negative emphasis on the inanimate object (the gun) rather than on the responsible party (the person holding the gun).

Most people who fling poo at unions and their employees do so because they have actual first hand experience with the topic either by being a part of one at some point or hiring employees from one only to find that they are lazy clock milkers that are usually more expensive than the non union guy that could easily do the same job for less money and with an equal amount of skill. Before you bring the 856493853905 hours of school back up, there are plenty of people that went to college that still don't know their rear from their elbow when asked about subjects regarding their college degree. Anyone can pass school if they can read a book. That doesn't mean anything was actually retained during the process.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:37   #408
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
OK, I'm gonna stick with electrical since its what I know.
Within the first month of me being an electrician, still in highschool, I was
A-clueless and dumb
B-left alone on jobs for days at times
C-allowed to work in hot panels and gear- less than a month experience.
Me being left to do jobs by myself, trying to teach myself, not really knowing what I was doing right or wrong. Contractor taking advantage of cheap labor at the customers expense and my safety. Our apprentices can't be left on a job alone until 5th year.
There's certain things you don't know yet, especially without school, even if you're super careful - example, test a live neutral with any tester it will show as dead, now unhook or open that neutral and current loses its return path, now if you become the path your in trouble. Even though it just tested as dead.
There's no standard of when to let them do hot work
Our apprentices don't work on anything hot until 5th year, even then they have to be with a journeyman.
While I was non-union, one thing that was done A LOT, was there would be one guy who had a little experience, then 10+ 'helpers'. They couldn't even be called apprentices because they had never had any training.
We maintain at least a 3:1 journeyman to apprentice ratio. Again, a customer should not have their electrical work done by a 'helper'.
Non-union I had never even seen a blast suit, let alone used one when I worked on any high current gear.
If we do any 480 gear we wear the suit.
We've all done 5 years school, IF they did any school they did the 4 year state minimum
We offer continuing Ed and certifications for FREE even after school
States that require a journeyman licence see above 90% first time pass rate for apprentices out of our program, less than 40% otherwise.
I worked Saturdays for straight time. It was expected I use my vehicle for company material, stay late without pay, asked not to cash a check for 2 weeks, had to race to the bank cause only the first few checks would clear, asked to hack something in cause they couldn't get the right stuff, or just didn't want to spend the extra time to do it RIGHT. Who does this hurt?
Sorry, none of that flys here, and our contractors just know not to even try it, and they dont.
So because of the experience you personally had with a questionable non union shop, you make the assumption that all union shops operate with that level of disregard for employee safety and the quality of work done? With what you described, it is no wonder the company rarely had the available funds to clear your paycheck. That statement also bundles you in as having the same attitude as the gun grabbing lefties you described in your previous post. If I am not mistaken, doesn't a city inspector have to come in and approve the work done before walls, ceiling tiles, and soffets can even be closed up? Sounds like there are crappy inspectors in your area too because the inspection should bring to light all of the imperfections that all non union shops apparently do and force them to do it again the right way.

I also had a chuckle about you complaining about working Saturday for straight time. Just about every non union job in any industry has a need for employees on Saturday and Sunday. They are simply given other days off during the week. Only in union trades have I ever seen employees that treat weekends as these magical things that they are entitled to extra compensation for working.

Last edited by Roger1079; 11-19-2012 at 05:40..
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:39   #409
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So because of the experience you personally had with a questionable non union shop, you make the assumption that all union shops operate with that level of disregard for employee safety and the quality of work done? With what you described, it is no wonder the company rarely had the available funds to clear your paycheck. That statement also bundles you in as having the same attitude as the gun grabbing lefties you described in your previous post. If I am not mistaken, doesn't a city inspector have to come in and approve the work done before walls, ceiling tiles, and soffets can even be closed up? Sounds like there are crappy inspectors in your area too because the inspection should bring to light all of the imperfections that all non union shops apparently do and force them to do it again the right way.

I also had a chuckle about you complaining about working Saturday for straight time. Just about every non union job in any industry has a need for employees on Saturday and Sunday. They are simply given other days off during the week. Only in union trades have I ever seen employees that treat weekends as these magical things that they are entitled to extra compensation for working.
Right, but its ok for you to do it with the limited experience you have with them. Ive worked with literally thousands of union construction workers, and I don't see this crap you guys are most likely fabricating.
So your friend works with a large union telecom company and would sometimes stop at your house for an hour and three beers? I guess there one of the only companies left that haven't put tracking devices on their vehicles. Right.
Explain the video I posted on the last page that confirms what I've been saying but the opposite of what you've said. That CEO has nothing to loose but his reputation, plus he was an unbiased third party, non-union at that. The study was funded by NON-UNION plant owners and company owners trying to figure out the the best value for construction. I'll go with what I've seen for the last 15 years(I work with more non-union guys than anything every day) and what those facts suggest over some union-hating story fabricator on the internet.
I'll start taking pics of this hacketry as I come across it and show you first hand. I got some blatently illegal stuff with the contractors name right on it that will only require a picture.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:56   #410
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Right, but its ok for you to do it with the limited experience you have with them. Ive worked with literally thousands of union construction workers, and I don't see this crap you guys are most likely fabricating.
So your friend works with a large union telecom company and would sometimes stop at your house for an hour and three beers? I guess there one of the only companies left that haven't put tracking devices on their vehicles. Right.
Explain the video I posted on the last page that confirms what I've been saying but the opposite of what you've said. That CEO has nothing to loose but his reputation, plus he was an unbiased third party, non-union at that. The study was funded by NON-UNION plant owners and company owners trying to figure out the the best value for construction. I'll go with what I've seen for the last 15 years(I work with more non-union guys than anything every day) and what those facts suggest over some union-hating story fabricator on the internet.
I'll start taking pics of this hacketry as I come across it and show you first hand. I got some blatently illegal stuff with the contractors name right on it that will only require a picture.
The vehicles all have GPS tracking devices now however they are NEVER scrutinized unless there is a customer complaint or the worker fails to reach their quota of trouble tickets closed for the day. So minimum work done to skate under the radar. The typical union workers philosophy because the union allows it.

You can think what you want about me fabricating stories. It is your perogative to not believe me as it is my perogative to call BS on your statements that all union work is divine and all non union work is subpar garbage done by uneducated and unsafe employees that couldn't hack the intense union qualification process.

You enjoy paying someone else out of every one of your paychecks to decide what is best for you while I enjoy negotiating (quite successfully) for myself at my non union workplace.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:08   #411
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You can't calculate it?

I'm no electrician, but I am a physicist.
What would you think DD? Any freshman student taking physics could calculate like you did? Actually, I bet any high school student taking physics could do it, what do you think?
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:09   #412
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I guess it was a coincidence then. My apologies.
It didnt take a day to google it. It took a day to figure out the first step...
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:14   #413
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The vehicles all have GPS tracking devices now however they are NEVER scrutinized unless there is a customer complaint or the worker fails to reach their quota of trouble tickets closed for the day. So minimum work done to skate under the radar. The typical union workers philosophy because the union allows it.

You can think what you want about me fabricating stories. It is your perogative to not believe me as it is my perogative to call BS on your statements that all union work is divine and all non union work is subpar garbage done by uneducated and unsafe employees that couldn't hack the intense union qualification process.

You enjoy paying someone else out of every one of your paychecks to decide what is best for you while I enjoy negotiating (quite successfully) for myself at my non union workplace.
So, the independant study I linked is absolutely false, and its ok to judge all union workers by the few you met but its not ok for me to do the same with the non-union guys. Seems fair.
Tell me where I said all non-union workers were unskilled garbage. If you read my posts you'll see I freely admit I've came across some really good guys, not union.. I'm willing to bet even if you have done the same with union workers you'd never admit it. As it stands now every union guy you've seen is either a lazy drunk or a pill head
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:20   #414
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Lets say you have union electrician, working on 380V 3 phase lines. You have a physicist working on an SEM with 30,000eV. Which is more likely to be driving a German sports car?

Or even better. Is a physicist more likely to know what 380V 3 phapse power is OR is a union electrician more likely to know what 30000eV is?
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:33   #415
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So, the independant study I linked is absolutely false, and its ok to judge all union workers by the few you met but its not ok for me to do the same with the non-union guys. Seems fair.
Tell me where I said all non-union workers were unskilled garbage. If you read my posts you'll see I freely admit I've came across some really good guys, not union.. I'm willing to bet even if you have done the same with union workers you'd never admit it. As it stands now every union guy you've seen is either a lazy drunk or a pill head
Maybe not a Pill head or Drunk, but diffidently Lazy. Least amount of work negotiated by Union Reps the Better.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:24   #416
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Lets say you have union electrician, working on 380V 3 phase lines. You have a physicist working on an SEM with 30,000eV. Which is more likely to be driving a German sports car?

Or even better. Is a physicist more likely to know what 380V 3 phapse power is OR is a union electrician more likely to know what 30000eV is?
Now theres something you don't see everyday in the us.
If your in the us, you must buy equipment from overseas?
Am I close?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:27   #417
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Now theres something you don't see everyday in the us.
If your in the us, you must buy equipment from overseas?
Am I close?
Union training.

Any idea where Baden–Württemberg is?
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Old 11-19-2012, 13:25   #418
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Union training.

Any idea where Baden–Württemberg is?
You ****ing people are off your rockers. I didn't bother to look at your location so that's my union training.
I gotta remember to stay the hell out of here.
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Old 11-19-2012, 13:33   #419
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You ****ing people are off your rockers. I didn't bother to look at your location so that's my union training.
I gotta remember to stay the hell out of here.
And yet you make a smartass comment about 380V 3-phase acting like I didn't know what I was talking about...
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Old 11-19-2012, 13:37   #420
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What would you think DD? Any freshman student taking physics could calculate like you did? Actually, I bet any high school student taking physics could do it, what do you think?
Certainly any undergrad in a hard science or engineering curriculum should be able to.
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Old 11-19-2012, 14:13   #421
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And yet you make a smartass comment about 380V 3-phase acting like I didn't know what I was talking about...
How the **** was that smartass ? I said its not something seen here everyday, cause its not, a transformer would be needed to go from 480 to 380, realistically it'd be cheaper to just replace the motors/drives/whatever else that 380 is supplying. The only time I've seen 380v equipment it was purchased from overseas we were asked if we could make it work. It was printing equipment for a printing press.
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Old 11-19-2012, 22:18   #422
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Tell me where I said all non-union workers were unskilled garbage. If you read my posts you'll see I freely admit I've came across some really good guys, not union.. I'm willing to bet even if you have done the same with union workers you'd never admit it. As it stands now every union guy you've seen is either a lazy drunk or a pill head
You mentioned earlier that hiring workers from a non union shop and the job done would be inferior.

Also, several of my closest friends were members of the IBEW at the previous job I had. They were excellent at what they do and still continue to pick up the slack for that union contracted company that is in our facility as do I. The remaining workers that didn't leave for greener grass in the next yard cannot troubleshoot an untied shoe, much less effectively do their job and troubleshoot malfunctioning kiosks.

I also never said every union worker is lazy, or a junkie. That is you making a fabrication or at the very least twisting my words. I am always up for an educated debate, but let's make sure we keep it honest and objective.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:22   #423
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
You mentioned earlier that hiring workers from a non union shop and the job done would be inferior.

Also, several of my closest friends were members of the IBEW at the previous job I had. They were excellent at what they do and still continue to pick up the slack for that union contracted company that is in our facility as do I. The remaining workers that didn't leave for greener grass in the next yard cannot troubleshoot an untied shoe, much less effectively do their job and troubleshoot malfunctioning kiosks.

I also never said every union worker is lazy, or a junkie. That is you making a fabrication or at the very least twisting my words. I am always up for an educated debate, but let's make sure we keep it honest and objective.
As for the first thing mentioned, I would say on average in construction it most definately is.
As for the rest, fair enough.
As for being honest, do you actually believe I needed dana's little 'clue' to figure out the rest of that problem, cause I didn't come here for a day?.
I took 2 weeks off to help friends/family and people I don't know fix problems at their homes in jersey, once the power is restored, that's when the electrical problems are showing up. I didn't even ask for time and a half Saturday(JOKE)
It seems I could have an honest discussion with you.
Now Dana- I don't know if that what he/she(in one post he said guy, I'm assuming Dana is not a woman, though he may not have balls)was getting at about him knowing what 380v 3 phase was, but me NOT knowing what an electronvolt is means he could do my trade since he knows what 3 phase is, yet couldn't be a physicist, therefore the chances of him driving a German sports car are much higher than me as a lowly electrician. Like that's supposed to impress me. German sports cars may not be my thing, I just sold my 10 second WS-6.
I asked him a serious question about what he asked, but its my typical union training that I didn't pick up where Dana lives reading his posts from a cell phone.
Then I'm a smartass for questioning his knowledge about 380v three phase, how he got that from what I asked I have no clue. He doesn't realize he can know all he wants about electricity and electrical theory. A good electrician MUST be able to apply that in the field with his/her tools, this is where the suits usually have the problem. Everything is so easy on paper until your the one doing the actual work.
Seems like Dana is the kind of person who can dish it out but not take it, those are the people on the jobsites who have issues, none of those issues are ever good.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:09   #424
Roger1079
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
As for the first thing mentioned, I would say on average in construction it most definately is.
As for the rest, fair enough.
As for being honest, do you actually believe I needed dana's little 'clue' to figure out the rest of that problem, cause I didn't come here for a day?.
I took 2 weeks off to help friends/family and people I don't know fix problems at their homes in jersey, once the power is restored, that's when the electrical problems are showing up. I didn't even ask for time and a half Saturday
You probably didn't need the clue and your service in Jersey is much appreciated. I am assuming it is in the wake of Sandy that you are referring to. This thread has been very standoffish since the start from both sides and that is where some of my comments came from. Let me shed some more light on my union experiences and my reasoning behind them.

The company my friends and I worked for is in a specialized industry where there are only 3 options. The company had hubs all over the country that other facilites would pass through. Our facility happened to be a hub. A few years back the company downsized and moved to a central data center eliminating the remote hubs. With this change, it also eliminated the need for hundreds of employees. Because of the union contract, the company gave all of the full time employees the option to relocate and keep their jobs. The other option was to quit.

I had already left the company at this time however my previous coworkers were still there. They opted to take non union employment with the facility we were contracted at in different positions since nobody wanted to move out of state and fortunately we have all done well.

The old job was part of the IBEW union and we were considered technicians and operators. My primary job function was to troubleshoot and install self service kiosks all interlinked over a serial network. It is a very specialized industry where no formal training is available. On my first day I was handed a radio and a set of keys and told to call if I had any issues. Needless to say, I learned very quickly and became very good at what I did. My reason for leaving is it was not the career path I was looking to stay on as the future of this particular industry is questionable and it has been declining for years now.

The current contractors left after the cuts and relocations rely on the ex employees to troubleshoot all of their kiosk problems. If a line goes down, we get called because the current guy doesn't have the slightest clue. His answer when asked to do the troubleshooting part of his job is "I can't wear so many hats." Just his way of saying he has too much on his plate. It however is nothing more than his way of masking that he doesn't know what he is doing. I could understand this at first, bit it has been 6 years now and nothing has changed. Multiple complaints to the company have gone unaddressed so we have come to accept that this is just what we have to deal with. If those kiosks don't work, that portion of our operation stays closed and we lose revenue.

By the way, this is also the same company that the guy with the substance issues I mentioned earlier worked for.

This is where my frustration with unions stems from. I know it doesn't speak for everyone, but I can only base my opinions on what I have experienced. I am still doing a job I left 6 years ago without getting compensated for it. I am not happy about it as I have plenty to do already, but in the interest of my company generating revenue, I do it anyway.

Hopefully this additional information gives a better view of my perspective of unions and that it is not just blind union bashing. On a side note, the construction comments I made were not fabricated either. We quite possibly just got a contractor that hired crappy people. I can only base my opinions on what I know, and my experiences overall have not been great.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:37   #425
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Originally Posted by di11igaf View Post
Seems like Dana is the kind of person who can dish it out but not take it, those are the people on the jobsites who have issues, none of those issues are ever good.
1) I am not a physicist.


2) I suspect that if we compare ability to design an electrical circuit, who do you think has a better chance of designing it. I suspect one of us doesnt even know how to calculate with imaginary numbers.
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