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Old 11-03-2012, 08:36   #26
TDC20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyandscuba View Post
The bullet is the same as 45 ACP (.451) and you can use regular 45 ACP dies to reload with. Once a pistol (1911, XD, or Glock) has been converted to 460 Rowland, you can shoot 45 Super, 45 ACP +P, and 45 ACP through the pistol without changing the barrel (no conversion barrel needed - unless you wanted to get one for 400 Corbon... Dont know why you would want that) springs, or mags -- the extractor is strong enough to keep the cartridge at the proper headspace.
This actually sounds like a great idea to me, and if I wasn't already so "invested" in 10mm, I would be seriously considering it. I'm just not in a financial situation right now to "invest" in the 460 Rowland, and I'm not going to sell my 10mm guns and dies until I no longer have enough strength in my hands to fire them, in which case, would also be the end of the 460 for me.

I was curious, though, if you don't mind me asking...does this set up suffer from the same thing the 10mm does? That is, most .40 bullets are made to expand at lower velocities, so don't hold up well at 10mm auto velocity. I would think that for most or all bullets made for .45ACP, that problem would actually be worse for the 460 Rowland. So is there anything other than hard cast bullets tough enough to withstand the 460's velocity and still expand/perform properly? I'm almost thinking if you could use bullets made for .45LC (.454) you wouldn't have a problem, but unless you could resize them to .451...I don't see that working too well.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:09   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDC20 View Post
This actually sounds like a great idea to me, and if I wasn't already so "invested" in 10mm, I would be seriously considering it. I'm just not in a financial situation right now to "invest" in the 460 Rowland, and I'm not going to sell my 10mm guns and dies until I no longer have enough strength in my hands to fire them, in which case, would also be the end of the 460 for me.

I was curious, though, if you don't mind me asking...does this set up suffer from the same thing the 10mm does? That is, most .40 bullets are made to expand at lower velocities, so don't hold up well at 10mm auto velocity. I would think that for most or all bullets made for .45ACP, that problem would actually be worse for the 460 Rowland. So is there anything other than hard cast bullets tough enough to withstand the 460's velocity and still expand/perform properly? I'm almost thinking if you could use bullets made for .45LC (.454) you wouldn't have a problem, but unless you could resize them to .451...I don't see that working too well.
The problem is, the .45LC, .454C and up jacketed bullets are usually to heavy/long to be effectively used in the .460R. The smaller HD/SD bullets suffer the same performance limitations as other lower velocity cartridge bullets, including the 10mm. Most .451", 230 gr. JHP's are rated subsonic or trans-sonic (.45 Super), but not to say they wouldn't work. It depends on what you consider acceptable bullet performance. A JSP or HC bullet would be a much better option, all things considered, if you want to take advantage of full potential .460R.

Bullet diameters are a non-issue. The ".45's" are the same bore. The .45ACP, .45S, .45GAP, .45WM, .45LC, .454C, .460SW, and .460R are all .451" bore.

Now, the claim that the .460R brings full (or even moderate) .44M power, is a serious overstatement, and misleading. It doesn't. It's an impressive cartridge, to be sure, but it's not all that.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1360165

Start reading at post #190.
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Old 11-03-2012, 17:11   #28
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Here's the thing that I don't get:

Quote:
The 460 case is 0.060" longer than a 45ACP
That doesn't seem like much, so I look up the load tables....

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sear...loading%20Data

VS

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sear...=26&header=.45

... and the two cartridges are using completely different sets of powders. Obviously, the Rowlands loads are hotter.... but, is the Rowland's case radically stronger than the .45ACP case? If so, ......



The concept of lopping off .060 of an inch and reloading a Rowland short comes to mind.
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Old 11-03-2012, 18:07   #29
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The .45 acp and Super are limited by pressure rather than case capacity. The extra length is just to prevent chambering in the wrong gun. Stronger brass just means you hit your pressure limit sooner due to reduced case capacity.

There are a few guys using LW barrels and running 460 R type loads, not sure that it is especially smart, but.... It isn't like modern brass and barrels are going to grenade if you exceed .45ACP pressures, or even .45 Super. The problem is you really need some slide weight and/or a comp when you are pushing that far past the designed parameters.

-Edit- After doing some calcs, I would NOT use a LW barrel at .460R pressures. It probably wouldn't grenade the first time out, but proof load pressures would be higher than burst pressure, so the safety margin would be REALLY thin. The .45 barrel is only about 77% as strong as the 10mm barrel if they are made of the same material and heat treated the same, while the Roland pressure is slightly higher than 10mm.

Last edited by Any Cal.; 11-03-2012 at 21:09..
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Old 11-03-2012, 18:24   #30
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You could load 45 Super brass to 460 Rowland pressures - just don't shoot it in a non-comp'd or non-ported ACP barrel... You need either the comp or ports to delay unlocking & to slow the slide velocity.

The longer case of the 460 Rowland is purely for the purpose of preventing chambering in a 45 ACP barrel - it adds no additional case capacity, as the bullets are seated deeper into the case to retain the OAL needed for 45 ACP magazines.


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Old 11-03-2012, 18:46   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaDoe View Post
Here's the thing that I don't get:


That doesn't seem like much, so I look up the load tables....

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sear...loading%20Data

VS

http://www.loaddata.com/members/sear...=26&header=.45

... and the two cartridges are using completely different sets of powders. Obviously, the Rowlands loads are hotter.... but, is the Rowland's case radically stronger than the .45ACP case? If so, ......



The concept of lopping off .060 of an inch and reloading a Rowland short comes to mind.
The reason for lengthening the case is not to increase case capacity. The C.O.L. is the same, for .45ACP and.460R. It is to ensure the Rowland round isn't chambered into a .45ACP pistol. The .45ACP barrels aren't designed to withstand over twice their original pressure. The .460R internal case capacity is actually slightly less than the .45ACP, as the case wall, web and head are thicker, more or less a lengthened .45 Super case.
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Old 11-03-2012, 19:24   #32
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FlyandScuba,

I'm pretty interested in the Rowland.

Do you happen to know how it performs at longer range? Does the 10mm carry out to 100 yards better, or does the 460 still have a power advantage at that kind of range? I'm specifically wondering about the comparison with each being fired out of a Mechtech (so a long barrel).

You don't have any ballistics info that can answer my question, do you?

Thanks for any help or info.
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Old 11-03-2012, 20:41   #33
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Since the thread is already doing this...

I am getting rid of ALL 10mm as well. Nicke10mm has seen the pic of my gun. It is as new. G20SF, 4 high caps, KKM, LW, 6" factory, and the stock barrel in the G20. (4) barrles !

PM me for PICS and prices.. All Is in tip top like brand new cond. The KKM has about 20rds through it, LW not many, the whole gun about 100 rds 'maybe' !

Not a high jack here, just tired of it, and see no need in it, (the 10) and got brass , lead etc, as well. Getting another M1911 45acp I don't need !

BTW.... NO cut what soever on the 10mm. Just for "ME" I have no further use for it, and like the OP, I got other plans !

Have missed all you old boys... We're hangin in there.. Thanks to all who write us and check on us !

Thanks OP for allowing my post. Good luck with your project amigo !

Y'all stay safe !


Bless y'all


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Old 11-04-2012, 11:48   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dm1906 View Post
The reason for lengthening the case is not to increase case capacity. The C.O.L. is the same, for .45ACP and.460R. It is to ensure the Rowland round isn't chambered into a .45ACP pistol. The .45ACP barrels aren't designed to withstand over twice their original pressure. The .460R internal case capacity is actually slightly less than the .45ACP, as the case wall, web and head are thicker, more or less a lengthened .45 Super case.
Good info.
Thanks.
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Old 11-04-2012, 16:18   #35
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Looks interesting for sure, I said sayonara to the 10mm as well. I do load for the .45 Super and I've reached the conclusion that it's enough for me. I know the 460 does even more than the .45 Super, but the way I look at it is, driving .45 ACP bullets a lot faster than they're designed to isn't always a good thing, bullet failure is almost guaranteed. I do like that you can load and fire some heavier (250gr+) loads and they will work as long as they will feed, but most are revolver bullets and don't always feed the best in semi-autos.
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Old 11-05-2012, 20:03   #36
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Boy, its tempting.

But, I think I am going to stick with the 10mm. Its about all I'll really use, if i need more power, there is the FNFAL.

I looked hard at the 460 early on, but was put off that the brass was 2-3X that of 10mm.
I get 45 brass for the picking, but i BUY 10mm brass, as i think its about the best all around caliber out there. I like the 40 option as well.

for PURE practicality, and for general SD use, the 45 it about tops.

When we start talking 10mm/460/44 we start getting into the 80/20 rule territory, in a way. we are out there.

Who knows? Next year I might be back with revolvers.
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Old 11-05-2012, 20:19   #37
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As I shoot a lot of .44 Mag in revolvers, I too considered dumping my 10mm equipment. I rarely shoot it anymore. Every time I get it ready for a "photo session", I decide to put it back in the safe and let it sit some more. My G20 has carried me through more than a few competitions and I actually like it.

Last year, a friend brought up buying a G21 upper for it...then I could have both 10mm and .45 cal cartridges with the same frame.
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Old 11-05-2012, 20:22   #38
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If it is safe to fire 45 ACP in a barrel chambered for the Rowland 460 then by the same reasoning it should be safe to fire 40 S&W out of the 10mm without bothering with a conversion barrel no? The differences in length being .06 inches and .14 inches respectively.
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Old 11-05-2012, 20:54   #39
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Yep, it is fine in a Glock, not necessarily in other guns.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:00   #40
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What I want to know if if you (flyandscuba) still have the converted AMT backup and if you are planning to sell it and what you are looking to get for it. Should I delay my purchase of a wood stove?
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:39   #41
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Bull, I thought he (flyandscuba) sold the AMT sometime back...I could be mistaken though.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:44   #42
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Quote:
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Bull, I thought he (flyandscuba) sold the AMT sometime back...I could be mistaken though.
Yes, I sold the AMT hand cannon a long time ago...


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Old 11-08-2012, 14:46   #43
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Well, I don't pay attention like I should. I need the wood stove more anyway
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Old 11-09-2012, 17:17   #44
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Well, I don't pay attention like I should. I need the wood stove more anyway
Say it ain't so.

Just kidding. My weber rotisserie 'accessory' sits unboxed, waiting for me to get 1) more charcoal, 2) a chicken, and most of all, 3) motivation.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:46   #45
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Since this has turned into a 10mm yard sale... Want to sell my 6" LW 10mm and 9x25 20 barrels. Both have an honest rd. count of less than 100 rds., probably less than 50. I bought them for an abandoned LS project and tried them in my stock 20 slide once. Don't like the balance or looks. They are $125 new plus at least $7-$10 shipping. Will sell for $100 shipped each in continental U.S. Also have a LW G22 barrel barely used under 100 rds., probably under 50. Bought to shoot lead and hav'nt done that. They are $110 new + shipping. Will sell for $85 shipped in Con. U.S. Please PM through GT, thanks.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54   #46
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If u still have the G29 357 barrel I am interested

Thx

rjinaz85308@cox.net


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Old 11-13-2012, 10:01   #47
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This reminds me of GolfSmith, a place where people sell their drivers because they've found the best, newest, and coolest driver. Missing in the stories is how good the golfers are...
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Old 11-14-2012, 16:41   #48
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After my success with the XD Compact Tactical 460 Rowland conversion, I decided to do something more CCW-friendly...

I spoke with Johnny Rowland at the Tulsa Gun Show this past weekend. He raved over the G30 conversion he has been personally using - so I decided to go ahead and pick up a conversion kit for one. It includes the barrel, compensator and a replacement RSA.

I located a used G30 in excellent condition (CDNN currently has them for $399) and dropped in the conversion when I returned home.

Today, I had a chance to take it to the range at Nashville Armory for a test run. Pics to follow - but I gave it the same test sequence as the XD Compact Tactical. 2 rds of 45 GAP, followed by 2 rds of Blazer ball, 2 rds of Winchester Ranger T +P, 2 rds of 45 Super, and finally 2 rds of 460 Rowland - all from the same magazine.

The 45 GAP would fire but not eject - nor would the Blazer Ball. The +P, 45 Super, and 460 Rowland all fired and ejected without difficulty.

I ran a total of 50 rds of 460 Rowland through the G30 - no problems whatsoever. It does shoot with "authority" and would not be for the recoil sensitive. Even with the compensator and RSA installed - it has more recoil than my G29SF with the hottest 10mm Auto loads.

Of course, I was shooting Johnny Rowland's "personal carry" loads that have been chronographed at 1570fps from a 5" barrel for the 185 gr Nosler bullet. Even if I lose 100-150 fps from the shorter G30 - that is impressive power from a small, easily concealed handgun.

Johnny, his partner Thomas, and I were discussing the Springfield XDS - and that several of us have been running 45 Super through it unmodified. They indicated that they are planning on a 460 Rowland conversion for the XDS! Yep, you read that right... What a hand cannon that will make if it is successful.

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I still have a G29SF; KKM .40 S&W conversion barrel; KKM .357 Sig conversion barrel; Lone Wolf 9x25 Dillon conversion barrel; and a Lone Wolf 6" G20 9x25 Dillon conversion barrel available for sale...
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:24   #49
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Good luck with the 460 Roland.
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Last edited by Broberts001; 11-15-2012 at 09:27..
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:25   #50
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You know guys, I have no 'skin in this game', but it's considered rude on the internet to post stuff for sale in someones for sale thread. I know it's not efficient to start for sale threads from each person, but that is generally considered better than hijacking someones sale thread with sale items of your own.

Too late now, but maybe something to keep in mind for future postings...

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