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Old 10-28-2012, 12:52   #76
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Well the most recent one I've found was DC vs Heller in 2008 where the supreme court upheld the second amendment in a landmark case.

Read up.

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Yes, and the libs and Dems fought against that ruling and still have to be sued to abide by it.

Not to mention that the court was split 5-4 Conservative vs. Liberal members. I wonder which side ruled for a pro-individual rights ruling?
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:53   #77
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Originally Posted by Sveke View Post
My struggle with AWB issues.

Here's the self battle in my brain:
There are WAY more stupid people than there are like us.
I love AR and AK's as much as the next guy but they really don't serve a civilian purpose, they are built to mow people down in battle and have fun with on the weekends
Those guns in the hands of people in line one are the problem, we know who they are.
I guess if I could keep all my handguns and have to give up my AR, I'd be ok with it.

Vs.

I'm an American damnit and can/should be able to own any gun I want.

I lean towards choice number two but there seems to be way more stupid crazy people out there than before getting their hands on these types of guns.


Should we be able to go out and buy a RPG or grenade launcher too?

Where do you draw the line?


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AR15's and other box magazine fed, gas operated semiautomatic rifles are not "built to mow people down in battle" and they most certainly do "serve a civilian purpose". Crew-served machine guns "mow people down in battle" when not being used for suppressive fire. The "civilian purpose" for most AR15's would be one of any number of uses - home defense, competitive shooting, casual target shooting, hunting, or being prepared for militia service.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:55   #78
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Originally Posted by Sveke View Post
My struggle with AWB issues.

Here's the self battle in my brain:
There are WAY more stupid people than there are like us.
I love AR and AK's as much as the next guy but they really don't serve a civilian purpose, they are built to mow people down in battle and have fun with on the weekends
Those guns in the hands of people in line one are the problem, we know who they are.
I guess if I could keep all my handguns and have to give up my AR, I'd be ok with it.

Vs.

I'm an American damnit and can/should be able to own any gun I want.

I lean towards choice number two but there seems to be way more stupid crazy people out there than before getting their hands on these types of guns.


Should we be able to go out and buy a RPG or grenade launcher too?

Where do you draw the line?


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Yes, absolutely we should be able to be as well armed as the government, to keep them honest. Should we be able to own war ships and artillery? You bet. Everything the .gov has at its disposal, we should as well, if we can afford it.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated did not have the same meaning then as it does now. It meant well equipped.

Shall not be infringed means shall not. Not should not, or maybe not, or can kind of be infringed. It means no way no how. It is plain. Is my reading comprehension that poor?
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:58   #79
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Originally Posted by Sveke View Post


Should we be able to go out and buy a RPG or grenade launcher too?

Where do you draw the line?


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We can go out a buy an RPG or a grenade launcher right now. Have you heard of the NFA? The line you mention was drawn in 1934, regulating destructive devices (such as explosives), SBR's and SBS's, machine guns, unusual weapons (AOW's), and any firearm with a bore greater than 0.50".

The problem I have is not in drawing the line, it's that liberals aren't happy with the line and want to move it.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:00   #80
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Yes, absolutely we should be able to be as well armed as the government, to keep them honest. Should we be able to own war ships and artillery? You bet. Everything the .gov has at its disposal, we should as well, if we can afford it.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated did not have the same meaning then as it does now. It meant well equipped.

Shall not be infringed means shall not. Not should not, or maybe not, or can kind of be infringed. It means no way no how. It is plain. Is my reading comprehension that poor?
Sveke may not understand what a Letter of Marque is nor how it has been used.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:01   #81
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I think the majority of people who are 'liberal gun owners' are the type to say they support gun control.
You "think" this, but you do not have good evidence to support this.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:02   #82
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Haha. The Audi thing is legit. Those cars are insane. Go drive one!!

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Audi's are OK, but there's a reason why the car companies compare their products to BMW.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:03   #83
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Haha. The Audi thing is legit. Those cars are insane. Go drive one!!

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I have driven lots of them, when I was fixing them. Have no desire to drive another.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:05   #84
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You "think" this, but you do not have good evidence to support this.
As much as you have to prove otherwise, and that is a FACT. I live in a klibtard paradise and talk to these people every day. I can go to my local gun club and hear it said any day of the week.

My statement is as much fact as yours so why are we arguing about it? What makes you right?
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:08   #85
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Sveke may not understand what a Letter of Marque is nor how it has been used.
I thought that those had been removed by amendment, but I just googled it. Still there! I also read that Ron Paul wanted to use them to go after terrorists and the pirates in Somalia.

Even if you disagree with Ron Paul, you gotta respect his principles.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:10   #86
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Originally Posted by Ironbar View Post

A wise person once wrote, "A contradiction cannot exist in reality. Not in part, nor in whole."
Great quote! I'm sure a few here will recognize it.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:10   #87
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Guys I said it was an on going battle in my head that I lean towards the conservative viewpoint. There are just points that I find valid coming from the opposition. Not many but a couple.

And relax with the militia thing. That's a joke. Bunch of fat guys running around in the woods.

We have a militia, it's called the national guard, go join.

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Old 10-28-2012, 13:11   #88
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I thought that those had been removed by amendment, but I just googled it. Still there! I also read that Ron Paul wanted to use them to go after terrorists and the pirates in Somalia.

Even if you disagree with Ron Paul, you gotta respect his principles.
I am all for that. I am sure there are plenty of men out there with the means to put a small fighting vessel to sea, and I feel we shouldn't stand in their way.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:11   #89
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I thought that those had been removed by amendment, but I just googled it. Still there! I also read that Ron Paul wanted to use them to go after terrorists and the pirates in Somalia.

Even if you disagree with Ron Paul, you gotta respect his principles.
See, I love Ron Paul! That guy is great!

But he's educated crazy and backs up most of his stuff so he's earned my respect. Some of his extreme libertarian views are a little much but most of it it's good stuff

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Last edited by Sveke; 10-28-2012 at 13:12..
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:12   #90
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You are absolutely correct, thats why I posted above what I did about my stance on gay marriage and MJ laws. However, I do not consider those to be of importance in my voting choices.

Now, if I smoked pot, I would. If I was gay and wanted to be married I would. I probably wouldnt be conservative either, if I wanted those things.

I think the majority of people who are 'liberal gun owners' are the type to say they support gun control. I live in IL where there are tons of union guys that vote exactly how their union tells them to, and they all say the same thing. They dont care if ARs are banned or hi-cap mags, as long as their hunting guns arent banned.
'Why care if it doesn't affect you?' It is unfortunate that this is such a common attitude. It is usually acompanied by a fervor to limit other people's liberties, as long as you don't agree/partake of them EVEN if it doesn't affect you.

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Old 10-28-2012, 13:14   #91
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I have met lots of liberals who are gun people. They then go to the polls and vote for the very people who say they want to ban guns. Doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me.
I'm pro choice. You want me to go vote for obama, right?
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:14   #92
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Audi's are OK, but there's a reason why the car companies compare their products to BMW.
BMW charges too much of a premium for essentially the same car.

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Old 10-28-2012, 13:14   #93
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Originally Posted by Sveke View Post
Guys I said it was an on going battle in my head that I lean towards the conservative viewpoint. There are just points that I find valid coming from the opposition. Not many but a couple.

And relax with the militia thing. That's a joke. Bunch of fat guys running around in the woods.

We have a militia, it's called the national guard, go join.

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There are 2 militias. The first, the "unorganized militia", is the militia of the founders, of which most of us are members. The second, the "organized militia", is the National Guard, formed long after the ratification of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:15   #94
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Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
Sorry, I just can't wrap my head around a hard core pro gun liberal. It just doesn't compute for me. I guess it is possible, but it exceeds my ram to comprehend such.
Mitch schrader. Memba him?

He called himself a lib but it was in a Jeffersonian sense not progressive
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:17   #95
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Originally Posted by Sveke View Post
My struggle with AWB issues.

Here's the self battle in my brain:
There are WAY more stupid people than there are like us.
I love AR and AK's as much as the next guy but they really don't serve a civilian purpose, they are built to mow people down in battle and have fun with on the weekends
Those guns in the hands of people in line one are the problem, we know who they are.
I guess if I could keep all my handguns and have to give up my AR, I'd be ok with it.

Vs.

I'm an American damnit and can/should be able to own any gun I want.

I lean towards choice number two but there seems to be way more stupid crazy people out there than before getting their hands on these types of guns.


Should we be able to go out and buy a RPG or grenade launcher too?

Where do you draw the line?


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Hmmm...this is worrisome. Where do YOU draw the line?

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Old 10-28-2012, 13:18   #96
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BMW charges too much of a premium for essentially the same car.

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Audi and BMW aren't even close to being "essentially the same car". If they were, BMW wouldn't be the benchmark for performance sedans that it is. Audi's are fun, and they're nice, but they're just another competitor trying to keep up with BMW.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:18   #97
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As much as you have to prove otherwise, and that is a FACT. I live in a klibtard paradise and talk to these people every day. I can go to my local gun club and hear it said any day of the week.

My statement is as much fact as yours so why are we arguing about it? What makes you right?
Not so fast. I didn't assert anything about what beliefs the liberal gun-rights supporters generally have. I said that you were asserting facts without valid basis. Going by what some of your acquaintances say isn't very good because it is anecdotal, and limited to the people you come in contact with.

That said, you very well may be on the money on what the typical pro-gun lib thinks.
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:20   #98
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The point is that you, and me, and our neighbors all need to be able to have an AR or an AK in the closet in case the federal govt tries to take too much power. We are a young nation and we have already had one such civil war. I'm sure there will eventually be another. You need to be able to pull your AR or AK out of the closet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sveke View Post
Guys I said it was an on going battle in my head that I lean towards the conservative viewpoint. There are just points that I find valid coming from the opposition. Not many but a couple.

And relax with the militia thing. That's a joke. Bunch of fat guys running around in the woods.

We have a militia, it's called the national guard, go join.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:22   #99
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I'm pro choice. You want me to go vote for obama, right?
Where did I say that Frank? Just point that out. If thats an issue for you that decides your vote then yes, you should.

Dont try to put words in peoples mouth
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Old 10-28-2012, 13:23   #100
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Audi and BMW aren't even close to being "essentially the same car". If they were, BMW wouldn't be the benchmark for performance sedans that it is. Audi's are fun, and they're nice, but they're just another competitor trying to keep up with BMW.
I just don't agree with you in 2012.

BMW has turned to the 2.0T that VAG introduced years ago. They have xdrive now because quattro beat their ass in the snowy climates and a S5 will run with a M3 all day and prob best it.

You were right in 2000.

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