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Old 10-27-2012, 20:45   #41
razdog76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJStudent View Post
Actually, from looking at the various j-frames on S&W's site, it looks like the longer barrels do in fact have longer ejector rods (no j-frames have ejector rods long enough to fully eject .38 or .357 cases like a K- or L-frame does).
I stand corrected, had to go look at mine... My M38 Bodyguard (made in 1973), Looks like there is at least 1/4" maybe 3/8" of case left in the cylinder when the ejector is fully depressed.

So it does allow for a longer, perhaps 1/8" more ejector which IMHO was a distinct benefit.
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Old 10-28-2012, 00:40   #42
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I will add to the chorus recommeding a 642. Mine is actually an M460, which was a 642 given a certain package of work by the Performance Center back when every little variant seemed to get its own model designation. (That was not a typo! Yes, today's 460 is a monster X-frame. S&W sometimes does re-use model numbers.)

I do NOT think the Air-lites, with titanium cylinders, are a good idea, at least for my hands. Airweight is light enough for me. I sold my AirLight Model 342, as it was past the point of diminishing returns.

My actual present secondary/tertiary gun, for concealment when in uniform, is a Ruger SP101 in a Kramer horsehide/kydex pocket holster, in a cargo pocket. (VertX pants) This may change, as we are switching uniform cargo pants, and it takes a seriously sturdy and large pocket to accomodate such a large and heavy snubby. I may have to revert to ankle carry if I want to keep toting the SP101, or may go back to using the J-frame.
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:35   #43
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Get a 442 or 642 pro. The pro models are cut for moonclips, which makes for super easy extraction, even with the short rod. Plus you can always shoot w/o the moonclips.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:12   #44
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Originally Posted by razdog76 View Post
Huh?

Ejector rod would be the same (depending on caliber) regardless of barrel length. On the .357 models, it is just a little longer to allow the longer .357 cases to clear.
The ejector rod on a 2 inch J frame does not allow for full stroke ejection, nor does a 2.5 inch K frame [in .38 Special or .357 Magnum].

Only barrels of 3 inches or longer have full length ejector rods. My 640 [2 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 1.25 inches and my 66 [4 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 2.25 inches [both include the yoke].

The effective stroke length is longer on full sized revolvers versus short barreled revolvers.

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Old 10-28-2012, 12:13   #45
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Not a cop, but I carry a 442 8n the weakside pocket. If I don't need it, a brother might.
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Old 10-28-2012, 15:20   #46
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Originally Posted by blueiron View Post
The ejector rod on a 2 inch J frame does not allow for full stroke ejection, nor does a 2.5 inch K frame [in .38 Special or .357 Magnum].

Only barrels of 3 inches or longer have full length ejector rods. My 640 [2 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 1.25 inches and my 66 [4 inch barrel] has a cylinder face to end length of 2.25 inches [both include the yoke].

The effective stroke length is longer on full sized revolvers versus short barreled revolvers.
I acknowledged my error a few posts, but the ejector will still be longer on the magnum because the barrel is longer, and the cylinder is longer, and thus will still be IMHO easier and more reliable to eject empties.
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Old 10-28-2012, 17:08   #47
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Originally Posted by razdog76 View Post
I acknowledged my error a few posts, but the ejector will still be longer on the magnum because the barrel is longer, and the cylinder is longer, and thus will still be IMHO easier and more reliable to eject empties.
Okay, to put this to an end... I took out both my M640-1 and my M642-5 or whatever it is... and measured the ejectors with my unscientific measuring tape.

The visible portion of the magnum ejector measure 24mm and th+e non-magnum measures 16mm, for a difference of 50% or 8mm... which roughly translates to about less than 1/3" which sort of correlates to the barrel length difference of 1/4" due to the longer cut out of the full underlug barrel.

Then there is the difference in length of the cylinder to accommodate the magnum cartridges, which in itself would necessitate a longer ejector to clear the cases out.

When engaged, the magnum pushes the cases out 25mm past the end of the cylinder while the non magnum pushes the cases out 17mm beyond the cylinder, according to my non-scientific measuring tape.

So now the question is when cases bulge, would that extra 8mm make any difference in clearing the malfunction?

In my years of shooting all my J-frames, I have never experienced any malfunctions and my cases have all ejected just fine when I plunge the ejector with my left or right hand.
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Old 10-28-2012, 18:30   #48
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Okay, to put this to an end... I took out both my M640-1 and my M642-5 or whatever it is... and measured the ejectors with my unscientific measuring tape.

The visible portion of the magnum ejector measure 24mm and th+e non-magnum measures 16mm, for a difference of 50% or 8mm... which roughly translates to about less than 1/3" which sort of correlates to the barrel length difference of 1/4" due to the longer cut out of the full underlug barrel.

Then there is the difference in length of the cylinder to accommodate the magnum cartridges, which in itself would necessitate a longer ejector to clear the cases out.

When engaged, the magnum pushes the cases out 25mm past the end of the cylinder while the non magnum pushes the cases out 17mm beyond the cylinder, according to my non-scientific measuring tape.

So now the question is when cases bulge, would that extra 8mm make any difference in clearing the malfunction?

In my years of shooting all my J-frames, I have never experienced any malfunctions and my cases have all ejected just fine when I plunge the ejector with my left or right hand.
Sure, so in a roundabout way you confirmed that the sight radius is .25" longer plus the length of the slightly longer frame (to house the longer cylinder), and the ejector rod is indeed longer allowing the 38 special case to be pushed farther out of the cylinder.

Besides, I don't think you will ever have a revolver case bulge without having had a KB, maybe sticky extraction, but still the longer ejector rod would be of benefit if there was sticky extraction.

The OP asked for opinions, and I provided mine which were on par with yours aside from going with a .357 for the reasons you confirmed.
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Old 10-28-2012, 23:05   #49
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I've known the magnum had a 1/4" longer barrel from day one because I did a lot of research on the J-frames before I bought mine. After a few years, I decided I didn't need the magnum capability and the extra weight... the Airweight does what I need and is so much easier in the pocket that I don't think I will ever go back to the full stainless.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:17   #50
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Update:

I ordered a 442 from Buds Police Supply per CT suggestion (thanks!) for $338 shipped.

Will post pics when I can figure out the best way to carry this as a backup. I can't pocket carry it because my pockets are mostly blocked by duty belt equipment. I have BDU pants with lower leg pockets, not sure if I can use these for carry. I figure my only other two options are ankle or vest and I am leaning more towards ankle of those two.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:54   #51
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Ankle carry is dirty work, the 442 will serve you well. I use a pm9 but would have no problems using a small revolver.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:37   #52
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That said, what type of uniform do you wear? If it's class A, your options as to carry location are more limited that if it's say BDU based.
I would think the opposite - I wore both and it was a lot easier to carry a backup when I was in a class A/B uniform by putting on an ankle holster. My brother wears a BDU uniform most of the time as a K9 officer and has the same complaint - he is issued an ankle holster he can't use.

Quote:
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I don't know if they still make them but they used to make a bolt on shroud for the hammer. If hammerless is needed then a 442 or 642.
Not sure why hammerless is needed. I always carried one with a hammer and never noticed a need for anything else. Pretty much everybody I knew carried a S&W mod 60 in an ankle holster, since that's what the state police issued back then.
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Old 11-01-2012, 13:13   #53
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I would think the opposite - I wore both and it was a lot easier to carry a backup when I was in a class A/B uniform by putting on an ankle holster. My brother wears a BDU uniform most of the time as a K9 officer and has the same complaint - he is issued an ankle holster he can't use.
I suppose that depends on whether you blouse your boots or not. With our particular pants (5.11 Taclites) we don't, so ankle carry is still a viable option, plus I've got multiple pockets in which a BUG can fit. I see your point though, it really just depends.
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Old 11-01-2012, 19:48   #54
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What do you carry for duty?
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Old 11-01-2012, 22:08   #55
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How does the black finish hold up on the 442? I went with the 642 partly due to worry that the black finish will wear off or just get shiny.
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Old 11-02-2012, 20:41   #56
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When I first started I carried a smaller rock to back up my primary one.

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Old 11-02-2012, 21:46   #57
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Quote:
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When I first started I carried a smaller rock to back up my primary one.

You guys were advanced enough to carry projectile weapons already?

I thought you carried a femur from a brontosaurus as your primary and you stuck a saber tooth fang in the folds of the animal skin loincloth as your hidden backup weapon?
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Old 11-02-2012, 21:49   #58
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You guys were advanced enough to carry projectile weapons already?

I thought you carried a femur from a brontosaurus as your primary and you stuck a saber tooth fang in the folds of the animal skin loincloth as your hidden backup weapon?
He just carried two femurs c'mon... It was known as the prehistoric New Your reload.
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Old 11-02-2012, 22:00   #59
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He just carried two femurs c'mon... It was known as the prehistoric New Your reload.
He was also known to take out all of the marrow in his primary femur bone before he engaged so when the suspect took away his primary "empty" or "hollow" femur, he can then use his hidden backup sabertooth fang and successfully subdue the suspect and save the Jurassic day.

That is after he puts on his official police pelt on his head, scratches down an appointment on the cave wall, and follows someone's uber hot Neanderthal woman girlfriend for 7 caves outside of his jurisdiction.

Not sure if Dragoon ever stayed at a Holiday Cave Express though.
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Old 11-03-2012, 21:56   #60
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He was also known to take out all of the marrow in his primary femur bone before he engaged so when the suspect took away his primary "empty" or "hollow" femur, he can then use his hidden backup sabertooth fang and successfully subdue the suspect and save the Jurassic day.

That is after he puts on his official police pelt on his head, scratches down an appointment on the cave wall, and follows someone's uber hot Neanderthal woman girlfriend for 7 caves outside of his jurisdiction.

Not sure if Dragoon ever stayed at a Holiday Cave Express though.
Don't know about that, but he gets credit for the whole hiding behind a wall of (thrown) rocks thing.

Awww, when will MTPD come back to give some comedy relief?
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